pellet lodged

[gerfalcon 13]

I have to say not all those who run dogs are guilty of such an act but unfortunately for others there seems to be an attitude that poaching deer using dogs during the hours of darkness , on land they dont have permission to be on is an acceptable thing to do.

 

First and foremost its in non compliance of the law , causing suffering in the manner I describe in my post above. I think any true sportsman irrespective of the legal situation cannot but agree other than such actions are unacceptable, in my view any one who champions there cause otherwise cannot bring the hunting/stalking/shooting fraternity into a favorable light in any way shape or form. We all have views and consciences and personally I am somewhat at odds to those actions that cause suffering to what i see cruel.

 

Personally I do not find them acceptable.

Just my point of view of which i am entitled to,however not wishing to appear bigoted,if anyone can show me a different point of view that it is acceptable to those I hold. I am prepared to listen.

 

kind Regards

Stuart

 

Stu

 

I too hold the same views. As do a great many others. Hence the wide spread and growing antipathy as I mentioned earlier.

Although for me coursing deer is totally unjustifiable be it it daylight or under cover of darkness, whether the perpetrator /s have permission to be on the land or otherwise. Although a point to be remembered is that by granting permission renders the landowner liable for prosecution under the Hunting Act 2004.

 

I like you, if anyone can point me in the direction of an alternative POV that isn't based upon inaccuracies, has some basis other than its traditional that holds up under rigorous scrutiny. I'm prepared to listen.

 

I read Stuarts opinions and although i disagree with some points, i totally respect his opinion. Your posts appear to be generated more towards trying to show your perceived inteligence with an underlying sub text against dog lads, deer coursing and poachers but also what appears to be a love of the very organisations that and trying to ban ALL hunting. You claimed a while ago it was your last comment on the subject but i think you love the lads biting

 

You mention that there is a widespread and growing apathy (to deer coursing i assume), well for me and many others it is now historical, done and dusted but this "widespread apathy" is generally attributed to the general public who also appear to have a widespread apathy for almost anything that involes the killing of wildlife, and that includes stalking(which you approve of)? Im not going to try and justify poaching or lamping deer, both are and were illegal so i wont try and defend them. You say to YOU coursing deer in daylight on permission is "unjustifiable", thats your opinion and your entitled to it, but it doesn't make you right, as much as my opinion doesn't make me right. I have mentioned before, you could regale tales of injured deer after idiotic lurchermen have been out and i could do the same with stories about idiotic gunmen and injured animals, but it doesn't mean i tar all gunmen with the same brush and decry their sport. You say you are willing to listen to an alternative point of view that isn't based on innacuracies, well to be honest I get the feeling your views are fixed in cement, as are mine, and as its now a banned and historical sport, also the fact that neither your, or my opinion means diddly squat and wont change anything so arguing is a little redundent. I think we all know that the Hunting Act 2004 was a travisty of justice, organisations invested heavilty in pushingg the legislation through despite some of the findings.

What amazes me about some of the "general public" is that they will sit slack jawed watching a hyena pack disembowel and eat a live wildebeast, or eat intensively reared meat with no thoughts or compassion towards its welfare, mainly because its cheaper, they will also call hunters cruel as they stroke thheir morbidlly obese dog and feed there pet rabbit that spends its life in a 3x1 hutch.........

 

 

Simon

 

I have no need to demonstrate my intelligence. I let the facts speak for themselves. Its true and I have made not attempt to disguise the fact that I hold deer coursers, poachers and some so called “dogmen” in extremely low regard. I always have and always will. I don’t support any blanket ban on all forms of hunting as you claim. I just support the ban on unethical, unjustifiable forms. Namely deer coursing! In regards making my last comment what I actually said was “I had just made the decision to say no more when you posted your comments. So I'll give this thread 1 more go around.” As I felt the post to which I was responding worthy of a reply and have continued to do so. How people respond to my posts or any other post for that matter is entirely up to them. If I consider what they post by way of reply worthy of a response I will endeavour to do so in an intelligent, polite, and meaningful way. With the odd touch, of humour, banter, and ridicule thrown in along the way for good measure.

 

 

In order to keep us on the right track I’ll need to correct you on what I actual posted again in order to ensure that any misconceptions, errors or misunderstandings, perceived or actual are addressed

“There is a high level of antipathy towards dogmen from a large cross section of society, who might or might not be unduly influenced by the bad press, and the marketing activities of the likes of the LACS and PETA. There is wide spread antipathy as well from other field sports participants who tend to be more reliably informed and less swayed by the AR hearts and minds marketing. “

So the apathy stems not just from the general bunny hugging public, but from many quarters including many other field sport participants. So you can’t blame it all on the urban organic is best, or inner city tower block resident who closest contact with the realities of the countryside is watching Countryfile on a Sunday because it comes on before X factor.

 

 

“You say to YOU coursing deer in daylight on permission is "unjustifiable", thats your opinion and your entitled to it, but it doesn't make you right, as much as my opinion doesn't make me right” Fortunately its not just me that holds that opinion. In this regard I don’t have to be right. Although I am! The majority says I am. The law say that I am and continued public opinion says that I am. Now you may disagree with all of those That is your right. It just doesn’t make you any the less wrong.

 

As for the Hunting Act 2004 being a travesty of justice. I would partially agree with you. Partially for the reason you state and fr a number of others. But the one shining triumph that came out of that whole mess was the banning of deer coursing! I’m a great believer in taking your wins when ever and where ever you can, and that was one resounding victory.

 

Again, unethical and unjustifiable in YOUR opinion,and many others perhaps, yet ethical and justifiable in many others. I also think the humour and banter has been replaced by more of a sermon, although i'll grant you it does have ridicule Would you be happy to throw other fieldsports to the dogs so to speak if it saves your own chosen sport? A lot of your posts seem like grandstanding? What if some fellow fieldsports enthusiasts don't like the idea of intensively rearing pheasants only to release them on keepered land for the shoot, and dont like injured birds, or stock ponds rearing fish for the lakes and rivers only to have a hook placed in their mouth on numerous occasions? I would like to think we all appreciate and understand other types of sport an the worst case scenarios or arguments for and against them. You didn't like one particular sport, and i respect that, but your mentioning of taking your wins when ever and where ever comes across like you are on the side of those we fought against so hard against, thats what i can't understand..........

 

"Again, unethical and unjustifiable in YOUR opinion,and many others perhaps, yet ethical and justifiable in many others." How many is many in your opinion? Coursing was always a minority activity and the number actively involved in deer coursing was even smaller. Like I said it wasn't just my opinion. It was the majorities opinion that saw the activity banned! That's the way democratic politics works.

 

"Would you be happy to throw other fieldsports to the dogs so to speak if it saves your own chosen sport?" My chosen field sport was never in jeopardy! I would never support any activity that I considered utterly unethical and unjustifiable.To do so would be hypocritical.

 

"I would like to think we all appreciate and understand other types of sport an the worst case scenarios or arguments for and against them." At the risk of being repetitive. I do understand and have knowledge of most field sports, from ferreting to grouse shooting, from hawking to salmon fishing, along with virtually every form of hunting with hounds. Those that I haven't participated in have been from the same reasons that I have no desire to " drink my own pee".

 

"You didn't like one particular sport, and i respect that, but your mentioning of taking your wins when ever and where ever comes across like you are on the side of those we fought against so hard against, thats what i can't understand." I suggest that you read my reply to Richie10 on the LACS thread in the Gamekeeping section.

 

 

 

League Against Cruel Sports fires campaigns chief.

 

 

The League Against Cruel Sports has dismissed its campaigns and communications director Steve Taylor for gross misconduct following a disciplinary investigation concerning expenses claims.

 

A League Against Cruel Sports spokesman said the charity has referred the case to the police and will not comment further until investigations are completed:

 

http://www.civilsoci...campaigns_chief

 

Don't you support them?

 

On 99.9% of their policies and ideas no. The only thing I share with them is a view on deer coursing and the all round benefit of its ban. Hardly what I would regard as support in its widest sense.

Edited November 22, 2011 by gerfalcon

[Lab 10,979]

Back to the orginal post, i think we all agree only a cnut shoots a deer with an air gun

Correction only a stupid cruel uneducated cnut of disputed parentage who has no consideration or concern for his quarry and needs to be brought to account for his her.their actions, I think I did say words to that effect in a more polite way in my initial reply to the OP. though.

 

Stu

Why do you have to write a full paragraph all the time..? A c**t covered it quite nicely!!!....:-)

[Caprelous 217]

just my opinion, i find it incredible that a deer had 4 airrifle pellets in its body, i think the airgunner would have to be within 30yds to penetrate the hide with a legal limit gun making this the most dopey deer i've heard of to be able to allow a hunter to get so close to be shot on numerous occasions? must of been king of the stalkers lol. a bit of jackanory me thinks but it soups up a "shot a poor conditioned beast story" i suppose. i myself am a shooter, i also used to hunt roe deer with lurchers, i know which i would rather be doing if it was still legal. at the end of the day, i feel roe deer will always be taken with lurchers, legal or not, like it or not and long may it continue.

 

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

And I think i have pleaded my case to death on this one for a while .

 

Thanks for listening

Stu

[Caprelous 217]

Back to the orginal post, i think we all agree only a cnut shoots a deer with an air gun

Correction only a stupid cruel uneducated cnut of disputed parentage who has no consideration or concern for his quarry and needs to be brought to account for his her.their actions, I think I did say words to that effect in a more polite way in my initial reply to the OP. though.

 

Stu

Why do you have to write a full paragraph all the time..? A c**t covered it quite nicely!!!....:-)

 

I dont know I just get wound up at times and sometimes i suffer from verbal diarrhea and its maybe i dont like talking about things you cant eat and smells of piss with hair round it, (Furry cup)

[Lab 10,979]

Back to the orginal post, i think we all agree only a cnut shoots a deer with an air gun

Correction only a stupid cruel uneducated cnut of disputed parentage who has no consideration or concern for his quarry and needs to be brought to account for his her.their actions, I think I did say words to that effect in a more polite way in my initial reply to the OP. though.

 

Stu

Why do you have to write a full paragraph all the time..? A c**t covered it quite nicely!!!....:-)

 

I dont know I just get wound up at times and sometimes i suffer from verbal diarrhea and its maybe i dont like talking about things you cant eat and smells of piss with hair round it, (Furry cup)

it sounds like it's a long time since you've seen one...... Lol

[Caprelous 217]

Back to the orginal post, i think we all agree only a cnut shoots a deer with an air gun

Correction only a stupid cruel uneducated cnut of disputed parentage who has no consideration or concern for his quarry and needs to be brought to account for his her.their actions, I think I did say words to that effect in a more polite way in my initial reply to the OP. though.

 

Stu

Why do you have to write a full paragraph all the time..? A c**t covered it quite nicely!!!....:-)

 

I dont know I just get wound up at times and sometimes i suffer from verbal diarrhea and its maybe i dont like talking about things you cant eat and smells of piss with hair round it, (Furry cup)

it sounds like it's a long time since you've seen one...... Lol

Thats because when I go down on one its usually in the dark i keep forgetting to take my lamp . I always go prepared with a board strapped to me back though.

[Richie10 345]

Rasher/greek phil/Gerfalcon,

 

Still banging on about ethics and morality and quoting LACS on why it was banned.

You talk about democracy and yet the majority have wanted the return of the Death penalty it was never brought back, doesn't seem to work as you want it to in reality. The majority think they are right but it has never happened.

You have said you have seen 4 types of deer coursed but have never given details.

As you know I also stalk deer but it is only a matter of time before they are fed more propoganda from LACS and the view will change. The idea that amateur Stalkers shooting deer for fun will soon be the slippery slope.

Your glee in backing LACS will be short lived, once the majority ask for only 'professional' stalkers to shoot deer, will you be happy to lay down your arms.

You can quote morals and ethics but they only relate to an individual. People growing chickens in the back garden for food is as unethical to some, they are based on perception. People percieved the idea of deer coursing as cruel but without first hand experience means nothing.

[Richie10 345]

just my opinion, i find it incredible that a deer had 4 airrifle pellets in its body, i think the airgunner would have to be within 30yds to penetrate the hide with a legal limit gun making this the most dopey deer i've heard of to be able to allow a hunter to get so close to be shot on numerous occasions? must of been king of the stalkers lol. a bit of jackanory me thinks but it soups up a "shot a poor conditioned beast story" i suppose. i myself am a shooter, i also used to hunt roe deer with lurchers, i know which i would rather be doing if it was still legal. at the end of the day, i feel roe deer will always be taken with lurchers, legal or not, like it or not and long may it continue.

 

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

And I think i have pleaded my case to death on this one for a while .

 

Thanks for listening

Stu

 

Stu,

Never seen a deer left dieing after being coursed, they get away or don't. You must be talking about the stag/buck hounds.

Running dogs will chase deer while they can see them, if the deer get to cover the majority of times the deer is lost and the dog will come back to you, they won't sit on the scent for miles.

Usually after a course the deer is caught or escaped, the course lasting minutes if that.

The deer is left to run off and continue and now a bit wiser.

As people say it would have pushed deer out of their area and disorientate them, well speaking to many stalkers, they have experienced the same with deer that have been shot at and missed.

Deer experience disturbance every day so it won't stress the deer, they live their lives on the edge, that's why you have to stalk or wait in high seats to shoot one.

Evolution has made them to deal with being chased, it's very natural for them.

 

Shame really, coursing tackles deer on their level, with the technology involved in stalking these days it stacks the odds in favour of the stalker. Shooting accurately from long distances, and binos.

With the dogs it involved fieldcraft and good husbandry and training of your dog.

[gerfalcon 13]

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

Stu

 

Those that choose to ignore the law cause suffering intentionally! And I agree wholeheartedly with your views regarding a hunters humane responsibilities.

 

Personally I think we as legitimate fieldsports participants will always be around to make a show. Now that we have divested ourselves of the dead weight. The few that continue to shout the odds and defy the law will continue to diminish in number year on year.

 

The fact that they act outside of the law only enhances our representative organisations namely the NGO, SGA, CA, BASC political influence. As they are clearly understood to represent legitimated sportsmen and their legitimated sporting activities. I'm not saying there won't be struggles and battles ahead but at least now we can put up an unhindered defence.

[Caprelous 217]

just my opinion, i find it incredible that a deer had 4 airrifle pellets in its body, i think the airgunner would have to be within 30yds to penetrate the hide with a legal limit gun making this the most dopey deer i've heard of to be able to allow a hunter to get so close to be shot on numerous occasions? must of been king of the stalkers lol. a bit of jackanory me thinks but it soups up a "shot a poor conditioned beast story" i suppose. i myself am a shooter, i also used to hunt roe deer with lurchers, i know which i would rather be doing if it was still legal. at the end of the day, i feel roe deer will always be taken with lurchers, legal or not, like it or not and long may it continue.

 

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

And I think i have pleaded my case to death on this one for a while .

 

Thanks for listening

Stu

 

Stu,

Never seen a deer left dieing after being coursed, they get away or don't. You must be talking about the stag/buck hounds.

Running dogs will chase deer while they can see them, if the deer get to cover the majority of times the deer is lost and the dog will come back to you, they won't sit on the scent for miles.

Usually after a course the deer is caught or escaped, the course lasting minutes if that.

The deer is left to run off and continue and now a bit wiser.

As people say it would have pushed deer out of their area and disorientate them, well speaking to many stalkers, they have experienced the same with deer that have been shot at and missed.

Deer experience disturbance every day so it won't stress the deer, they live their lives on the edge, that's why you have to stalk or wait in high seats to shoot one.

Evolution has made them to deal with being chased, it's very natural for them.

 

Shame really, coursing tackles deer on their level, with the technology involved in stalking these days it stacks the odds in favour of the stalker. Shooting accurately from long distances, and binos.

With the dogs it involved fieldcraft and good husbandry and training of your dog.

 

I did say it was enough from me on this but will afford the courtesy of a reply but really this must be the very last .

First and foremost you say you havent seen deer that have been left dieing unfortunately for many others inc myself I have been on the recieving end of having to go out dispatch a mortally wounded deer that poachers during the hours of darkness have left in the bottom of a ditch , so your statement unfortunately is not true poachers do not have any respect for either the law ,the welfare of the animal or what the consequences ,there are those in our midst who are bringing us all down with their actions . You obviously choose to accept that or not , I am not convinced that cruelty isnt happening by those who using dogs poaching , far from it, although i respect what you say there are those who think its acceptable in running deer during the hours of darkness ,that are bringing the shooting/hunting fraternity into disrepute. I cant really be any clearer it somehow has to stop.

Now that really has to be the last point of view on the matter from me on this one.

Its been milked enough.

 

Kind Regards

Stu

[Lab 10,979]

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

Stu

 

Those that choose to ignore the law cause suffering intentionally! And I agree wholeheartedly with your views regarding a hunters humane responsibilities.

 

Personally I think we as legitimate fieldsports participants will always be around to make a show. Now that we have divested ourselves of the dead weight. The few that continue to shout the odds and defy the law will continue to diminish in number year on year.

 

The fact that they act outside of the law only enhances our representative organisations namely the NGO, SGA, CA, BASC political influence. As they are clearly understood to represent legitimated sportsmen and their legitimated sporting activities. I'm not saying there won't be struggles and battles ahead but at least now we can put up an unhindered defence.

As long as you keep writing like you do you will make people like myself who tend to sit on the fence and see both sides and not be blinkered hope and pray that the ban will be lifted.

It saddens me to read that a superior intellect like yourself can't see that whether a deer is coursed or a mis placed shot will cause different degrees of stress...... And that is a fact not an opinion.

[bunnybasher69 56]

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

Stu

 

Those that choose to ignore the law cause suffering intentionally! And I agree wholeheartedly with your views regarding a hunters humane responsibilities.

 

Personally I think we as legitimate fieldsports participants will always be around to make a show. Now that we have divested ourselves of the dead weight. The few that continue to shout the odds and defy the law will continue to diminish in number year on year.

 

The fact that they act outside of the law only enhances our representative organisations namely the NGO, SGA, CA, BASC political influence. As they are clearly understood to represent legitimated sportsmen and their legitimated sporting activities. I'm not saying there won't be struggles and battles ahead but at least now we can put up an unhindered defence.

As long as you keep writing like you do you will make people like myself who tend to sit on the fence that's all you can do with your fat lab, you should give it to Stu and see both sides and not be blinkered hope and pray that the ban will be lifted.

It saddens me to read that a superior intellect like yourself can't see that whether a deer is coursed or a mis placed shot will cause different degrees of stress that's exactly my point but with added humour which you couldn't understand...... And that is a fact not an opinion.

If the anti's have their way their would be no point in buying a gun because they would be banned also so I guess I'm better of skipping the gun and going straight to the pee. I'll bring a spare cup for you lab

[Lab 10,979]

Unfortunately your correct there are those who live outside the law and cause suffering either intentional or unintentional it matters not in my book, whether its someone with a rifle ,a bow, a spear ,a lassoo any person who involves himself in bringing about any animals demise has a responsibility as a human being to do it as quickly and as humanely as possible.

 

Sometimes things go wrong in the discipline that I am involved in and I do question myself at these times have I done enough to prevent suffering sometimes it comes close and its on my conscience for quite a considerable period of time after, I know however this is not the case with everyone and its each to there own in their beliefs but I cant help but question those beliefs of others at times as i am sure other people do on here when they see the end result of deer hounded and left dieing such evidence is a visual reminder that there are those out there who do not have any conscious whatsoever.

 

I also have seen the same scenario with poachers using guns and cross bows on deer . this cant be viewed as sport or wildlife control its utter cruelty as a hunting sports fraternity we have a duty to the animals we hunt to stop this kind of thing , before we all loose what we have not to condone it, Its not the LACS or other anti blood sports org that will be our end its those in our midst thats bringing us in to disrepute.

 

How we going to carry on in future generations to come is up to how we are seen to sort ourselves out now and in the trying times a head, so basically what i am says clean up our act or else we wont get a chance to make a show let alone a pantomine.

 

Stu

 

Those that choose to ignore the law cause suffering intentionally! And I agree wholeheartedly with your views regarding a hunters humane responsibilities.

 

Personally I think we as legitimate fieldsports participants will always be around to make a show. Now that we have divested ourselves of the dead weight. The few that continue to shout the odds and defy the law will continue to diminish in number year on year.

 

The fact that they act outside of the law only enhances our representative organisations namely the NGO, SGA, CA, BASC political influence. As they are clearly understood to represent legitimated sportsmen and their legitimated sporting activities. I'm not saying there won't be struggles and battles ahead but at least now we can put up an unhindered defence.

As long as you keep writing like you do you will make people like myself who tend to sit on the fence that's all you can do with your fat lab, you should give it to Stu and see both sides and not be blinkered hope and pray that the ban will be lifted.

It saddens me to read that a superior intellect like yourself can't see that whether a deer is coursed or a mis placed shot will cause different degrees of stress that's exactly my point but with added humour which you couldn't understand...... And that is a fact not an opinion.

If the anti's have their way their would be no point in buying a gun because they would be banned also so I guess I'm better of skipping the gun and going straight to the pee. I'll bring a spare cup for you lab

Are you ripping the pish or we on the same side here.........

[bunnybasher69 56]

both lab

[gerfalcon 13]

As long as you keep writing like you do you will make people like myself who tend to sit on the fence and see both sides and not be blinkered hope and pray that the ban will be lifted.

It saddens me to read that a superior intellect like yourself can't see that whether a deer is coursed or a mis placed shot will cause different degrees of stress...... And that is a fact not an opinion.

 

One is the result of a mistake, error, miscalculation etc. That every conscientious ethical stalker does everything in his power to eliminate. Regrettable but inevitable if you do enough these things occasionally happen. Where as the other is a deliberate, pre-calculated, intentional act that repeats itself every time the act is committed.That is also a fact not an opinion.

 

Like Stu, I believe that what was needed to be said has been said. Hopefully a few more fence sitters have seen the light and come over to the side of reason.

 

Unless someone else comes up with anything new, interesting or insightful I'm done with this thread.

Edited November 22, 2011 by gerfalcon