Nationalism

[scarface 10]

I'd rather have the welsh and scots than a load of blacks/pakis/jews!

agreed!

[tegater 789]

How about, all those who agree and have English, Welsh and Scottish flags shown, change them to the Union Jack. I will do mine as soon as I get home onto a proper computer.

[PeakOil 352]

In a lot of cases it is just pretend lines drawn on an ancient map by some figure in the murky past. Lines that don't really exist, well they do in the imagination of a lot of folk. I try to bear that in mind when dealing with some folks who can't get their head round that.

 

As for the EU the yarn we are so often spun by our political, business and media elite is that we must say yes to the EU, no to the EU and three bags full to the EU. What happens when the people tell the EU to get f****d? Remember Iceland, that country that was in the news a lot 3 years ago? You don't hear much about them any more, where did I put my tinfoil?

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/01/1001662/-Icelands-On-going-Revolution

 

 

An Italian radio program's story about Iceland’s on-going revolution is a stunning example of how little our media tells us about the rest of the world. Americans may remember that at the start of the 2008 financial crisis, Iceland literally went bankrupt. The reasons were mentioned only in passing, and since then, this little-known member of the European Union fell back into oblivion.

As one European country after another fails or risks failing, imperiling the Euro, with repercussions for the entire world, the last thing the powers that be want is for Iceland to become an example. Here's why:

Five years of a pure neo-liberal regime had made Iceland, (population 320 thousand, no army), one of the richest countries in the world. In 2003 all the country’s banks were privatized, and in an effort to attract foreign investors, they offered on-line banking whose minimal costs allowed them to offer relatively high rates of return. The accounts, called IceSave, attracted many English and Dutch small investors. But as investments grew, so did the banks’ foreign debt. In 2003 Iceland’s debt was equal to 200 times its GNP, but in 2007, it was 900 percent. The 2008 world financial crisis was the coup de grace. The three main Icelandic banks, Landbanki, Kapthing and Glitnir, went belly up and were nationalized, while the Kroner lost 85% of its value with respect to the Euro. At the end of the year Iceland declared bankruptcy.

Contrary to what could be expected, the crisis resulted in Icelanders recovering their sovereign rights, through a process of direct participatory democracy that eventually led to a new Constitution. But only after much pain.

Geir Haarde, the Prime Minister of a Social Democratic coalition government, negotiated a two million one hundred thousand dollar loan, to which the Nordic countries added another two and a half million. But the foreign financial community pressured Iceland to impose drastic measures. The FMI and the European Union wanted to take over its debt, claiming this was the only way for the country to pay back Holland and Great Britain, who had promised to reimburse their citizens.

Protests and riots continued, eventually forcing the government to resign. Elections were brought forward to April 2009, resulting in a left-wing coalition which condemned the neoliberal economic system, but immediately gave in to its demands that Iceland pay off a total of three and a half million Euros. This required each Icelandic citizen to pay 100 Euros a month (or about $130) for fifteen years, at 5.5% interest, to pay off a debt incurred by private parties vis a vis other private parties. It was the straw that broke the reindeer’s back.

What happened next was extraordinary. The belief that citizens had to pay for the mistakes of a financial monopoly, that an entire nation must be taxed to pay off private debts was shattered, transforming the relationship between citizens and their political institutions and eventually driving Iceland’s leaders to the side of their constituents. The Head of State, Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, refused to ratify the law that would have made Iceland’s citizens responsible for its bankers’ debts, and accepted calls for a referendum.

Of course the international community only increased the pressure on Iceland. Great Britain and Holland threatened dire reprisals that would isolate the country. As Icelanders went to vote, foreign bankers threatened to block any aid from the IMF. The British government threatened to freeze Icelander savings and checking accounts. As Grimsson said: “We were told that if we refused the international community’s conditions, we would become the Cuba of the North. But if we had accepted, we would have become the Haiti of the North.” (How many times have I written that when Cubans see the dire state of their neighbor, Haiti, they count themselves lucky.)

In the March 2010 referendum, 93% voted against repayment of the debt. The IMF immediately froze its loan. But the revolution (though not televised in the United States), would not be intimidated. With the support of a furious citizenry, the government launched civil and penal investigations into those responsible for the financial crisis. Interpol put out an international arrest warrant for the ex-president of Kaupthing, Sigurdur Einarsson, as the other bankers implicated in the crash fled the country.

But Icelanders didn't stop there: they decided to draft a new constitution that would free the country from the exaggerated power of international finance and virtual money. (The one in use had been written when Iceland gained its independence from Denmark, in 1918, the only difference with the Danish constitution being that the word ‘president’ replaced the word ‘king’.)

To write the new constitution, the people of Iceland elected twenty-five citizens from among 522 adults not belonging to any political party but recommended by at least thirty citizens. This document was not the work of a handful of politicians, but was written on the internet. The constituent’s meetings are streamed on-line, and citizens can send their comments and suggestions, witnessing the document as it takes shape. The constitution that eventually emerges from this participatory democratic process will be submitted to parliament for approval after the next elections.

Some readers will remember that Iceland’s ninth century agrarian collapse was featured in Jared Diamond’s book by the same name. Today, that country is recovering from its financial collapse in ways just the opposite of those generally considered unavoidable, as confirmed yesterday by the new head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde to Fareed Zakaria. The people of Greece have been told that the privatization of their public sector is the only solution. And those of Italy, Spain and Portugal are facing the same threat.

They should look to Iceland. Refusing to bow to foreign interests, that small country stated loud and clear that the people are sovereign.

That’s why it is not in the news anymore.

 

That strikes me as real nationalism. Not what ever pie in the sky fantasy dreamed up by marginal political one trick pony's, recycled by vested interests and re badged as nationalism.

[scothunter 12,609]

How about, all those who agree and have English, Welsh and Scottish flags shown, change them to the Union Jack. I will do mine as soon as I get home onto a proper computer.

 

i used to have the union flag,but it got changed and it wasnt me.dunno how to change it back

[staffs riffraff 1,068]

@peakoil

Icelands situation should be standard why should the citizens of a country have to pay for the gambling ofthese people that have no loyalty or real tirs tothe country that they play with, money that don't exist except on computer it's disgraceful I think thanks for putting that up

[gnasher16 30,531]

Politically i dont understand all this union stuff and the pros and cons of it all................but as regards people,i think its perfectly normal for us to all have a little rivalry thats just human nature.....look out your window we all have a bit of rivalry with our close neighbors be it whos got the best car or whatever it may be.....that dont mean it needs to get all poisonous and hate filled.....Im English,i have no reason at all to call myself British just because England is in Britain......Londons in the south of England but im not a south Englander

When it comes to success i want myself and family to do well,after that i want my nearest neighbors to do well,on a national scale thats the other home nations...........id rather share a pint with a jock/welsh/irish than i would any other country......but not as much as an Englishman....i dont see whats wrong with that....as long as folk respect each other but allow them their own identity i dont see a problem......i cant see any reason whatsoever to all be independant,on an everyday human being point of view...what would change !

[PeakOil 352]

@peakoil

Icelands situation should be standard why should the citizens of a country have to pay for the gambling ofthese people that have no loyalty or real tirs tothe country that they play with, money that don't exist except on computer it's disgraceful I think thanks for putting that up

 

The people are told they have to pay in order to keep the business, financial and political elite in the great style to which they are accustomed and will fight tooth and nail to keep things that way. Iceland proved that allowing PRIVATE banks to go to the wall for making appalling PRIVATE business decisions would not result in a nation going back to the dark ages overnight.

 

Yes they had a lot of troubles over the first few years, but they dealt with the problems head on and are now emerging stronger out the other side. Their shit sandwich was eaten in a couple of marathon, unpleasant sittings. Our shit sandwich, well we are still having a small mouthful every couple of months and moaning about it going mouldy and tasting worse at each bi monthly nibble.

[tegater 789]

How about, all those who agree and have English, Welsh and Scottish flags shown, change them to the Union Jack. I will do mine as soon as I get home onto a proper computer.

 

i used to have the union flag,but it got changed and it wasnt me.dunno how to change it back

My profile-edit my profile

[hellyer189 93]

its all talk, just to spark reaction imo, the british empire used to be the most power full nation in the world.......what the f**k happend. i would go as far to say i am a disgraced briton bring back old traditions, and before any one moans calling me an old fart im 22!

[scothunter 12,609]

its all talk, just to spark reaction imo, the british empire used to be the most power full nation in the world.......what the f**k happend. i would go as far to say i am a disgraced briton bring back old traditions, and before any one moans calling me an old fart im 22!

 

sadly they will remain in the past,and some quite rightly so lol guess its up to the individual person like you or me that upholds them in some way or other.

[steveS.Yorks 161]

Its an island,were joined together and share genes or at least a lot of us do,so why would we like to be divided?

 

I could be way out but i think the divisions [imagineary or real] are perpetuated by our governments and other parties that have a vested interest in us not being strongly united.

 

If the article PeakOil posted is correct and the IMF,and various other governments/bodies made allsorts of threats against Iceland to try and force them to capitulate whats that tell you?

 

If you have a country where the vast majority of citizens are a certain type and think as one type its harder to sway their decisions,exept when they are also controlled by strong religious beleifs,if you diversify the population and have all kinds of differnt people living in a country you only ever have to persuede a small percentage of people to vote/agree with you to tip the scales in your favour.

 

Just an educated guess but i bet with Icelands remotness the people are pretty much "one type" and are thinking as one type,bit cold to walk about wearing pyjamas and flipflops as well so hard to flood.

 

Divide and conquer,oldest trick in the book,fair play to the people of Iceland.

Edited October 26, 2011 by steveS.Yorks

[micheal rennicks 17]

question lads here in ireland work is scarce our youth and more are emigrating,is it the same in britain.???????

[gonetoearth 5,144]

question lads here in ireland work is scarce our youth and more are emigrating,is it the same in britain.???????

like ireland we are in the middle of a economic slump , every time it happens we throw are youth on the scrap heap

your younger generations have historicaly migrated ares too have chosen this path , this is a crime are youth is are future wealth,

we should be ploughing millions into training and re education , , instead of letting in thousands of so called skilled poles and other eastern european chances , it a vicious circle , NOW I HEARD TODAY OF A TRADE AGREMENT WITH INDIA WERE CERTAIN INDIAN COMPANYS WILL BE ABLE TO BRING IN TO THE UK THERE OWN WORK FORCE

, ,

Edited October 26, 2011 by gonetoearth

[The Duncan 802]

its all talk, just to spark reaction imo, the british empire used to be the most power full nation in the world.......what the f**k happend. i would go as far to say i am a disgraced briton bring back old traditions, and before any one moans calling me an old fart im 22!

Technology mate. GB used to be THE world superpower - not so long ago in the grand scheme of things and this was due largely to our advanced technology and strong seafaring traditions.

The bottom line is that there is only so long a small Island near central europe can rule the waves and the world. Sheer numbers precluded Britains long term supremacy as a world power.

 

Regarding the original post; I am a Brit through and through. I only really feel nationalistic when I feel my nation (England) is under fire.

We are the United Kingdom, and I believe our identity relies on our national identities combining as one Kingdom. We are unique.

[smithie 2,443]

question lads here in ireland work is scarce our youth and more are emigrating,is it the same in britain.???????

NOW I HEARD TODAY OF A TRADE AGREMENT WITH INDIA WERE CERTAIN INDIAN COMPANYS WILL BE ABLE TO BRING IN TO THE UK THERE OWN WORK FORCE

, ,

 

 

i hope thats wrong becouse its very wrong from were im sat..