serves the c**nt right

[chook1 184]

Sorry but disagree with all of you, everyone loose's their temper at times - and no one can ever realy say they have never hit their dog

at least 90% of us have done it at one time or another, but it dosent realy teach a dog anything except fear,

i would sooner work on a problem in hand, rather than beat or pin a dog in to submission and just mask the problem.

 

ratreeper - pinning a dog is just as bad, dogs dont pin each other and neither do wolfs - the alpha myth was debunked a long time ago

a leader should never show any form of agression and that includes pinning.

http://k9domain.org/alpha_theory.aspx

 

I didnt see all that vid - but what i did see was a dog cowering at one point, so more than likily it has been beaten

more than the times shown, with the looks of it, the dog is probably whining to go in the house, it scratch's at the door at one point,

and someone comes out and it gets hit - all's its teaching the dog is to be fearfull and in turn can create an agressive dog

or one that will just cower on sight of people, its not teaching the dog to stop whining or scratching at the door is it.

 

And whats it teaching the child - that beating a dog for no resion at all is aceptable,

whining and scratching at the door to go in is not an acceptable reasion to hit or kick a dog

 

With the mob that attacked him and his home, it shouldnt be condoned,

they should not have done that simple as - there are other ways of sorting things

other than violence.

your theory is bollocks for a start........I don't hit my lurcher but if she's done something wrong and I shout at her or approach her in an assertive way she cowers, as I would imagine 99% of dogs do! if they don't you've got a problem cos it's challenging you!!!

 

 

no not one of my dogs cower - ive got 6 hear

and not one cowers if i shout - they stop what they are doing or go off sulking

but certanily none cower and none of them challenge me either,

why would i want my dogs cowering.

 

If your dog is cowering then your domanating it or its a submissive dog anyway.

 

If you look at that vid properly, the second that door opens - the dog runs to the right side of the door and drops almost to the floor cowering,

normal balanced dogs dont do that.

to be honest, watching it again I agree. That's not just dropping down it's shitting itself. I don't agree about the dominance thing being wrong though, dogs are pack animals and packs have a domimant member, which should be you.

 

This is all sounding very familiar!!!! you're not 6pack under another ID by any chance are you???

 

http://www.thehuntin...r/page__st__105

 

 

Nope but she is a friend lol

 

Just to add i dont work off dominance - i work off trust and respect,

and consisity (sp)

God, what a nightmare you pair must be!!

 

just to add, you can be the dominant one and still have trust and respect you know. Being the dominant one doesn't mean you have to beat the dog black and blue! it just means the dog knows you're the boss.

 

That's all I'm going to add, the subject does my head in to be honest with all the fanny arsed theories about how the pack rule doesn't apply etc. It's a pack animal therefore the pack rule/pecking order applies, it's as simple as that IMO!

 

 

Only when we get gether on something

[Ratreeper 441]

Just did a quick search, not the best vid but this is what I am on about http://www.youtube.c...?v=O2thVALjjvE. The older dog isn't harming the pup, he is just using body language etc to keep the other dog down until it relaxes and submits. If you watch any dogs interact for a period of time one will eventually show signs of dominating the other, older dogs show younger dogs how to behave when they get out of line. If neither backs down they have a scuffle.

 

Saying you just need to feed treats and bribe a dog into behaving is hippy bollocks in my opinion.

 

Edit: check this out greg

again, pretty shit example as it is very subtle Edited October 28, 2011 by Ratreeper

[Scallywag 78]

 

Saying you just need to feed treats and bribe a dog into behaving is hippy bollocks in my opinion.

 

I'm friends with Chook and 6 Pack but agree with Ratreeper on this one. I don't think there's any need for violence and on the odd shameful occasion I've lost my temper with a dog I've achieved very little except loss of trust on their part and dignity on mine. But I agree dogs need good clear leadership and authority and that they're more confident, secure and relaxed as a result. Having said all that, Chook and 6 Pack's dogs are better behaved that my b*****ds!

[chook1 184]

Just did a quick search, not the best vid but this is what I am on about http://www.youtube.c...?v=O2thVALjjvE. The older dog isn't harming the pup, he is just using body language etc to keep the other dog down until it relaxes and submits. If you watch any dogs interact for a period of time one will eventually show signs of dominating the other, older dogs show younger dogs how to behave when they get out of line. If neither backs down they have a scuffle.

 

Saying you just need to feed treats and bribe a dog into behaving is hippy bollocks in my opinion.

 

Edit: check this out greg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNwjJzk4V_8 again, pretty shit example as it is very subtle

 

 

 

Sorry clicked the wrong thing lol

 

But if you look at that vid - the older dog does not touch the other dog,

the younger one lies down of its own accord, it does not pin the other dog.

 

Were not dogs and we will never be able to replicate what dogs do,

 

I occasionaly feed treats to mine but i expect my dogs to do things for me cause they want to

not because they have to or because ive a treat in my hand - ive had upwards of ten dogs living together so i know how a group of dogs

are together, one of my girls who i lost last year - disaplined a friends puppy, alls she did was one snap

never touched the pup, but the pup respected her after that and has respected every one of my dogs and me since

when i walk in with one of my dogs, this dog now around 5 years old rolls on its back infront of my dog,

 

with my other dogs this bitch only ever needed to stand infront of one of the other dogs

and they would stop what they was doing, she never needed to growel or pin them,

its because she had respect.

[Ratreeper 441]

Sorry clicked the wrong thing lol

 

But if you look at that vid - the older dog does not touch the other dog,

the younger one lies down of its own accord, it does not pin the other dog.

 

Were not dogs and we will never be able to replicate what dogs do,

 

I occasionaly feed treats to mine but i expect my dogs to do things for me cause they want to

not because they have to or because ive a treat in my hand - ive had upwards of ten dogs living together so i know how a group of dogs

are together, one of my girls who i lost last year - disaplined a friends puppy, alls she did was one snap

never touched the pup, but the pup respected her after that and has respected every one of my dogs and me since

when i walk in with one of my dogs, this dog now around 5 years old rolls on its back infront of my dog,

 

with my other dogs this bitch only ever needed to stand infront of one of the other dogs

and they would stop what they was doing, she never needed to growel or pin them,

its because she had respect.

 

 

What dogs do you have? If you are referring to labradors or spaniels or something then fair do's maybe you never need to be physical. I was talking about a rescue rottweiler that was left in a yard as a guard and not socialised properly. It took 6 months before he would approach my girlfriend for food, he was extremely dominating but not aggressive with it. He was always fine with me from day one when I was volunteering at the centre I found him, I didn't intend to keep him at the time but he wouldn't let anyone else near him and they were muppets.

Anyway, some hippies with your mentality say it is wrong to ever be physical with a dog. They use arguments saying a dog is not a wolf so none of the psychology applies, but evolutionary speaking 10,000 years or so is simply not long enough to remove instinct. Even humans have the genes and remnants of tails, we are scared by the same primal noises etc. A dog is not a wolf, but it isn't as far away as your arguments seem to suggest.

If you think you can fix a dog with one 'snap' or whatever and that fixed your friends pup that just isn't realistic, if your friend wasn't consistent and it was a dominating dog it would just revert back. The example I gave with my rottweiler and ferret hutch did stop him trying to kill him, but I had to gradually build up to being able to trust him in the same room as one running free and couldn't let my guard down.

 

Anyway I think you are contradicting yourself, you say there is no such thing as the alpha and dogs don't dominate each other. Then constantly refer to being the leader or your bitch controlling other dogs. You are referring to the same thing using softer words. I can't believe you have never seen a dog tell a pup off, they snap at the back of their neck or under the chin and definitely pin each other I have seen it a hundred times. But anyway we have high-jacked this thread which was about beating a dog which is different to dog training.

[6pack 60]

But there is never a reason to hit a dog if you actually know what you are doing, hitting is counter-productive.

 

 

I don't want to sound like a prick, I just really don't think you should harm a dog. At it's best it is bad training and at it's worse it's as cowardly as beating a woman.

 

[greg64 2,849]

i still think i was right to do that with the ebt ,it learnt that lesson in 5 minuites,i took that dog on as a 2 year old and it spent 10 more happy years on my smallholding living in perfect harmony with chickens ,ducks goats and sheep,infact two days after it ate those chickens and was put in his place my indian runner duck drake used to peck it on the arse and it did,nt bat an eye,job done in my opinion