FAC air gun for a foreigner.... What says the UK law???

[bmwmotard 15]

Hey Guys,

 

 

As a few overhere know I live in Belgium.

I have a European Weapon Pass and also do hunt with rimfire and shotguns, also in other country's. In the Uk I only hunt with air guns (12 ftp) or when someone with a fac invites me I bring my extreemly tuned air guns with.... (I have more then 60 of them)

 

Now; overhere it is 100 % allowed without any registration to have and to buy air guns WITHOUT any limit.

We can almost NOT find 12 ftp weapons and when we do they are extremely expensive. So nobody buys them then ofcourse....

The question I wanna know is the following.

 

Can I buy FAC weapons in the UK knowing that they are 100 % legal overhere and also that I put them on my European Weapon Pass (for travelling with in the EU)

I do not have a FAC license as it exists in the UK because for the simply reason that this NOT exist in Belgium.

 

 

What is possible and how does it works?

 

Please some advice

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Bmwmotard

 

 

Stefaan

[pianoman 3,587]

Hi BMW.

You need a UK FAC issued by a UK Police force to buy any air or cartridge firearm from a UK dealer. Here you are subject to UK firearms law regardless of where you are from or the laws pertaining to your home country.

 

I suggest you get in touch with the UK Home Office with regards to moving or shipping firearms out of the UK mainland. I'm not sure what limits there may be or whether you may need special export licences or certificates nowadays.

 

Pianoman.

[bmwmotard 15]

Hi BMW.

You need a UK FAC issued by a UK Police force to buy any air or cartridge firearm from a UK dealer. Here you are subject to UK firearms law regardless of where you are from or the laws pertaining to your home country.

 

I suggest you get in touch with the UK Home Office with regards to moving or shipping firearms out of the UK mainland. I'm not sure what limits there may be or whether you may need special export licences or certificates nowadays.

 

Pianoman.

 

 

Thanks Pianoman....

Very complicated stuff when I startto read on that page from UK Home Office////

I will do that when I have the time for it...

 

Thanks

[markha 99]

To be honest you are stuffed, Basically you are Belgian and live in Belgium, nothing wrong with that at all my friend.

 

However Belgium is always a place where weapons and other items have historically and presently been traded through, your'e country is basically a major distribution centre for arms dealers from all over the world as well as having a higher than normal amount of world embassy 'special attaches'

 

So for you to import any kind of gun in to Belgium as a person off the street is basically a no-go. Even your gun dealers have a tough time of it.

 

So apart from learning about the UKHO regs on arms export as a learning lesson, dont waste your time and try to get something from your local gun dealer.

atb

Mark

 

edited: I think if you dig around you will find it easier to import from France or Liechtenstein?

[bmwmotard 15]

To be honest you are stuffed, Basically you are Belgian and live in Belgium, nothing wrong with that at all my friend.

 

However Belgium is always a place where weapons and other items have historically and presently been traded through, your'e country is basically a major distribution centre for arms dealers from all over the world as well as having a higher than normal amount of world embassy 'special attaches'

 

So for you to import any kind of gun in to Belgium as a person off the street is basically a no-go. Even your gun dealers have a tough time of it.

 

So apart from learning about the UKHO regs on arms export as a learning lesson, dont waste your time and try to get something from your local gun dealer.

atb

Mark

 

edited: I think if you dig around you will find it easier to import from France or Liechtenstein?

 

 

 

Hello Mark,

 

 

I do import weapons from other countrys. Rimfire from France and Italy. Somertimes even from Russia and also from the USA.

But for a few brands from air guns who are NOT avalable overhere and only in the UK I wanna import them in FAC when possible.

Now I import (buy) them in NON FAC versions and modify them to what you guys calles FAC.

Most of those weapons are very easely to do and I make my owne parts for it to.... valve's, valveneedle, etc but a few brands are difficult to have and also difficult tomake the parts and or to find the wright parts for...

So for those I wanna import them....

There are a few huge UK dealers who are working with me and even a few brands and they are sending parts and weapons (new weapons) confirm the UK law to me but they are all under the 12 ftp wich is 100 allowed and completely legal....

 

 

Even spareparts to make them fac are allowed to send from the UK to a country where it is allowed but you need to do the paperwork for...

So I make a whole list then of parts so that I only need to do the paperwork once and also the dealer(s) in the UK make them once....

But it would be a lot cheaper for me when those same weapons are from the factory already in FAC and could be send to me.

 

Grtz

 

 

Stefaan

 

 

ps: You have your RFD and overhere it is simply a firearmdealer..... I have the needed documents from the Ministry ( Licenses - permits) and because I hunt and do also international competitions it is legal to do that for me. I had follow a gunsmithing course at FN in Liege about 25 years ago.... BUT, airguins are something strange overhere; because they are NOT in our LAW and therefore 100 % FREE we cannot import them or export them on paper simply because it doesn't exist on paper. Hard to explaine for me but let's say: it is allowed to do what you wanna do with.

Edited October 1, 2011 by bmwmotard

[pianoman 3,587]

Why is a 12ft/lb air rifle so expensive in Belgium, you need to go to the expense of buying via a UK dealer...then you ask about buying/exporting FAC power rifles from England, when apparently, you should be falling over the bloody things from your own country????. Does Belgian Law limit or even prohibit the ownership of a 12ft/lb air rifle?

 

It's not so much about parts as tuning them.

 

HMMMM :hmm: What exactly is the purpose of your post here old chum ?

 

If you live in a European country that allows you unlimited access to unlimited power air rifles....Why is 12 FPE such an issue?

 

And you already have a collection of over sixty....?

 

And you shoot Internationally....?

 

And you already work with a few HUGE UK dealers who, APPARENTLY, are sending you parts and whole guns

 

SO...

 

Why the f**k are you asking an airgun forum about trying to buy FAC power air rifles via Britain? A country that has the tightest, the most rigid, up-it's-areshole firearms laws in the known universe, when you can get what you want, where you already are?

 

I would struggle to name anything like half your collection that would be worth shooting to any standard over and above 12 FPE. And even way less to name for quality in the first place...unless you are a genius at turning junk like SMKs and HATSTAND Hatsans into genuine performance shooters.

 

And anyone from your already-established UK contacts will tell you exactly what you have to do; in answer to your original question here.

 

Too many contradictions that are not adding up here Stefaan, old son.

 

 

SO...

 

What's the real reason behind why you cannot get what you need in oh-so liberal Belgium??

 

It surely isn't a matter of cost?!

 

 

??????

 

A word of friendly Yorkshire advice old cocker...

 

You want to impress anyone here?

 

Show us how well you shoot.

 

Not the bollocks you claim to own!

Edited October 2, 2011 by pianoman

[bmwmotard 15]

What exactly is the purpose of your post here old chum?

 

If you live in a European country that allows you unlimited access to unlimited power air rifles....?

 

And you already have a collection of over sixty....?

 

Why the f**k are you trying to buy more via a country that has the tightest, up-it's-areshole firearms laws in the known universe!

 

I think you are full of shite old cock!

 

 

Hey ,

 

 

It's simple to explain...

Some brands we do not have overhere.... further are the weapons in the UK a lot more cheaper then overhere to.... sometimes more then 50 %.

I do like to work on them, tune them etc.... In Bedlgium there are NO or almost NO huge airgundealers. The only big importer is a gundealer in Lommel.

He is the importer f FX and a few other brands for the Low lands....

In France it's the same.... There are the prices agin higher then in Belgium and or Holland...

 

I have recently bought a Brocock wich is NOT to find overhere and modified it... Just for the pleasure: No more and no less...

 

No dealers of Brocock overhere. ame with a few oher English brands and I like the English brands..

[pianoman 3,587]

Stefaan you seem intent on going around a field in order just to get across it!

 

This thread was titled about buying FAC power air rifles from Britain. You then tell us about how nearly impossible it is to buy a 12FPE gun in Belgium.

Nothing was mentioned about Brococks or any other make?

 

So, why don't you just go direct to the UK manufacturers, like Brocock, and ask them about purchasing and shipping a particular gun, or spare parts specific for them, to your country? If the answer is No, there will be reasons why and these will explained to you. Usually, it is about lack of Firearms trade licences that prohibit a gun from being made available to certain countries. So no amount of money will get round that one!

 

Why does it have to be FAC power?

 

Why bother with tuning issues in a country that already allows unlimited power?

 

Are you actually DETUNING them to sub 12FPE for profitable resale? Do you Belgian shooters actually bemoan the fact that all you can have is high performance guns and you all dream of owning sub 12 FPE guns like ours?

 

Not all of them suit high end tuning. Nothing like near half the makes available will shoot very well above 12 FPE. And certainly, very few Spring Rifles do!

 

If you shoot internationally, you would already be well versed in UK firearms laws pertaining to transportation of firearms through our borders? You would certainly know that European Firearms certificates do not qualify as an import/export licence here.

 

Why don't you just ask UK HM Customs what restrictions and conditions there will be on taking an air rifle of less than 12 FPE back to Belgium from the UK?

 

It's not exactly dealing in Stinger Missiles is it?!

 

 

 

?????

Edited October 2, 2011 by pianoman

[bmwmotard 15]

This thread was titled about buying FAC power air rifles from Britain. You then tell us about how nearly impossible it is to buy a 12FPE gun in Belgium.

Nothing was mentioned about Brococks or any other make? We al use FAC overhere because we are shooting on longer distances then the UK. The 12 ftp we use for FT are most of them indeed detuned weapons because otherwise not or very hard to find.

 

So, why don't you just go direct to the UK manufacturers and ask them about purchasing and shipping a particular gun to your country? Some of them are doing that already but for a few (most of them)brand I cannot find the parts and I cannot make them also to increase them to FAC. The Belgium shooters (most of them) are only looking for FAC weapons.

 

Why does it have to be FAC power? Good queistion of you. I'm completely understanding that, but overhere most of the people want power (that is not a guarantee for correct shooting I know) and more power means further shooting. We do not live in a country of many clubs, FT etc.... They all use them overhere for shooting in there garden etc on long + 50 meters distances and it is impossible to tell them that it's uselesse to have powerguns for that. It's a way of thinking overhere.

 

Why bother with tuning in a country that already allows unlimited power? Tuning a 12 ftp is (see above) because they want power.... For my own purpose I tune them also but also I tune them very fine (trigger) burms etc ...

 

Are you actually DETUNING them to sub 12FPE? For HFT we always do that because we don't find enough weapons in that powerrange.

 

If you shoot internationally, you would already be well versed in UK firearms laws pertaining to transportation of firearms through our borders? You would certainly know that European Firearms certificates do not qualify as an import/export licence here. Yes I know that but maybe there is a way (A LEGAL WAY) to import them from the UK.... I don't know enough about that.

 

Some brands are sending me airguns and I also buy them second hands but the problem is finding the FAC spareparts for it... I make a lot myself but cannot make everything.

 

?????

[pianoman 3,587]

Then it looks like you've answered your own question here matey.

 

As one who shoots with both FAC and sub 12 FPE air rifles, I can honestly tell you it is ACCURACY ALONE that determines range precision. NOT power. Any fool can blast one off a mile! What distances are you shooting rabbits, knock-down metal targets or tin friggin' cans at? This is bollocks. I'll not buy the line that you guys are shooting at greater ranges with greater precision.

 

Otherwise, why bother with an air rifle when you can have a decent Rimfire for less money and parts headaches?

 

Doesn't make sense Stefaan!

Edited October 2, 2011 by pianoman

[bmwmotard 15]

Then it looks like you've answered your own question here matey.

 

As one who shoots with both FAC and sub 12 FPE air rifles, I can honestly tell you it is ACCURACY ALONE that determines range precision. NOT power. Any fool can blast one off a mile! What distances are you shooting rabbits, knock-down metal targets or tin friggin' cans at? This is bollocks. I'll not buy the line that you guys are shooting at greater ranges with greater precision.

 

Otherwise, why bother with an air rifle when you can have a decent Rimfire for less money and parts headaches?

 

Doesn't make sense Stefaan!

 

 

We don't shoot rabbits etc with air rifles overhere. It is not allowed to hunt with them. Sometimes I comme to the UK with 12 ftp or even FAC when someone invited me and when it is a FAC gun that I bring with it's on my European Weapon Pass and the person that invited me most have a safe for it then.

I do hunt with shotguns and rimfire in the Ardennes on boar and deer and sometimes on rabbits (we don't have as much rabbits overhere then in the UK)

Knock-down targets in Belgium is maximum 100 meters but in France we shoot at 150 meters... With a 12 ftp it's not possible...

[pianoman 3,587]

I'm sorry Stefaan but, this sounds strange that you can have extremely powerful air rifles and yet, you are not allowed to shoot small game vermin like rabbits with them. It looks as though you'll have to soldier on fabricating parts and tuning rifles as best you can. I know something of Boar and deer shooting in the Ardennes forests myself so, it baffles me the more so as to why the Belgian government has a down on hunting rabbit with an air rifle of considerable muzzle energy.

 

I would suggest you still get in touch with HM Customs UK who will better clarify the situation regarding you buying a 12 FPE air rifle of your choice when visiting the UK and taking it back to Belgium with you.

 

You certainly will need a UK Firearms Certificate before anyone here can sell you an air rifle of above 12 fpe. And I wish you luck in your searches.

 

Simon

[markha 99]

This thread is going round and round in circles of bullshit

 

[

We don't shoot rabbits etc with air rifles overhere. It is not allowed to hunt with them. Sometimes I comme to the UK with 12 ftp or even FAC when someone invited me and when it is a FAC gun that I bring with it's on my European Weapon Pass and the person that invited me most have a safe for it then.

I do hunt with shotguns and rimfire in the Ardennes on boar and deer and sometimes on rabbits (we don't have as much rabbits overhere then in the UK)

Knock-down targets in Belgium is maximum 100 meters but in France we shoot at 150 meters... With a 12 ftp it's not possible...

 

 

Rimfire on wild boar and deer in Ardennes? I dont think so, not legal in Belgium as the same calibres in the UK are used.

 

Blackpool air rifles - BAR, will post any UK legal air rifle to Any EU country that also has the same muzzle velocity limits ie 12ftlbs. And they will also post spare parts that make an air rifle high power above 12ftlbs to a person in a country where high powered air rifles are permitted, so get in touch with BAR.

 

If you have already got good contact with 'Big UK Gun exporter ask them if they can send FAC rated air rifles to you rather than the parts?

 

Good luck.

[clubshot 22]

The Only UK Dealer I am aware of who has a Export Section is Blackpool Air Rifles

 

Aware it's a lot of paper work - reason the cost

 

Believe they send it to overseas dealers for collection -

 

 

BOB/R

[markha 99]

Just like I have posted above Bob