Boresnakes and barrel wear - a technical hypothesis

[markha 99]

The subject of barrel cleaning comes up on a regular basis, as does the use of boresnakes and then the thoughts about barrel and crown wear.

 

In my day job I work as a mountaineer, this includes technical rope rescue in the UK and overseas. As such I can comment on technical equipment issues, breaking strengths and rockwell scales for carabiners and rope dynamics etc.

 

One thing I use on a reagular basis is two types of climbing rope, dynamic which is stretchy and generally used for climbing, the other is LSK or low stretch kermantle, this is static rope and generally used for rope rigging and abseils. (all in it simplest terms ofcourse).

 

The other main item of use are carabiners, either manufactured from solid steel or from a mix of alloys.

 

The latter type are the normal, with steel carabiners mainly used in IRATA and work at height compliant areas, but not exclusively.

 

 

Also used in a climbing context is a friction device called a 'belay plate' along with a large screw gate HMS/BOA carabiner.

 

Together these two items allow a climber to abseil from climbs either in an emergency or as a way to get back to ground level after a climb.

 

Now where am I going with this?

 

Well the sheath of a climbing rope is a lot tougher and more abrasive than a boresnake (lets forget the brushes on a boresnake for the moment) as it needs to be able to withstand the harsh and sharp edges of rocks, even when they are under tension from am 80hg climber hanging off the end.

 

The mix of metals used in alloy mix carabinners is far softer than any rifle barrel. I just can't be bothered to go in to case hardness or rockwell grades for carabiners and for rifle barrels, surfice to say rifle barrels are a bit tougher.

 

 

Below is a picture of my personal belay device and HMS screw gate carabiner.

 

 

 

The carabiner has had kilometers of rope run through it over a 3 year period.

 

(I know its 3 years as I have to keep the safety data sheet that comes with each item of technical equipent for traceability in the event of equipment failure)

 

So we have an item that has been abraided by a harsh rope in summer and winter in dry and rain and subjected to multiple thermal cycles.

 

My point is there is some nice polishing in the area where the rope runs over, and there is some wear to the metal, however you need to run a finger over the polished are very lightly and also quiet a few times to be able to feel the wear..

 

 

So a soft carabiner that's had hundreds of kilometres of harsh dynamic and static rope abraided though it, Compared to a soft boresnake run a few metres through a very hard rifle barrel.

 

I now have a logical conclusion that if I remove the metal bristles ( I have done) from the boresnake, I can feel very confident that even after years of pull-throughs I will not be worried about wear of a rifle bore.

 

As far as a boresnake being pulled through at an angle over the edge of a muzzle crown, personally Im not worried about the effects of that either, its still soft material and very hard barrel and drawing from the images above, which are from a rope loaded over the edge of a carabiner with, in many instances, my bodyweight on the rope, I would still not be bothered.

 

Cheers for reading and as with all hypothosese looking forward to constructive ctitisism :0 If you can find some

[tegater 789]

Markha. I have no knowledge of the technical aspects of metal. However A.I's advice in their barrel cleaning literature is "the use of a boresnake is NOT recommended" because it can wear the muzzle/crown. Exceptions being on ops, if sand etc needs removing, where the use of a cleaning rod is not practical until return to base. Now if a company like that issue that advice, then I am guessing that there must be some justification for doing so.

I have no doubt this will just come down to personal preference!

[markha 99]

I thought I would add a couple of pics; the brush from a boresnake, these ones are from a 17hmr boresnake:

 

This is a partially removed boresnake brush

 

 

 

 

This is a boresnake brush next to a screw tip brush, both are 17hmr

 

 

Now, both brushes are the same as near as damnit, one is used to scrub up and down a barrel and the other is used to pull through a few times.

 

I dont work for 'boresnake' but I am trying just a little to clear up one of the 'boresnakes cause wear' myths. The old 'pull-throughs' of years ago, granted they could cause wear, also if your pull-through or boresnake is contaminated with dirt, quartz, sand etc and if you were to repeatedly pull the much through, then yes, maybe, after thousnads of pull-throughs with a boresnake you may get a little bit of wear.

 

If however you pull through as evenly and as possible with a nice centrally located cord exiting from the muzzle then the chances of muzzle/crown wear are nothing to be concerned about. You would ofcourse want to make sure that your boresnake was in a good clean condition.

 

All of this is just my thoughts from a logical point of view. I know that at the end of the day peoples cleaning regime is what works for them and what they feel is the least likely to effect premature wear or accuracy.

 

There are however too many myths regarding 'the boresnake' and these all stem from the very poor and damaging bit of kit that was the 'pull-through' now that did cause muzzle/crown wear without a doub,t but the materials and metals in the pull-through are different to the 'boresnake'.

[dicehorn 38]

Very interesting re the technical side, but comparing your 'clip' with a muzzle crown has an essential flaw. The edge of a crown is sharp the edge of your 'clip' is round - now if your 'clip' had four sharp sides to it, what would be the state of the edges after three years?

[Deker 3,478]

Very interesting re the technical side, but comparing your 'clip' with a muzzle crown has an essential flaw. The edge of a crown is sharp the edge of your 'clip' is round - now if your 'clip' had four sharp sides to it, what would be the state of the edges after three years?

 

:thumbs:

[Deker 3,478]

What is possibly more important than any damage a Bore Snake can cause if not used appropriately, it doesn't clean your barrel efficiently!

[Sidelock 10]

If crown wear is a prob or worry when useing a snake, its not rocket science to make a nylon end cap to fit mod thread so the snake or rod cant go off line on the pull through. when useing a rod youd use a chamber plug to guide the rod as you push the rod ,,,, so if pulling a snake or pull through you guide it at the other end

Edited September 18, 2011 by Sidelock

[tegater 789]

If crown wear is a prob or worry when useing a snake, its not rocket science to make a nylon end cap to fit mod thread so the snake or rod cant go off line on the pull through. when useing a rod youd use a chamber plug to guide the rod as you push the rod ,,,, so if pulling a snake or pull through you guide it at the other end

Not a bad shout that, as on rifles fitted with a muzzle brake, and I don't know many that use one in the civvy market, then crown/muzzle wear wouldnt be a problem. As Deker says though, they don't clean as efficiently as a rod.

[Sidelock 10]

Couldnt agree more, rod is best, but there are times a pull through saves the day ( yes i have used mine for a walking stick )

[dicehorn 38]

Couldnt agree more, rod is best, but there are times a pull through saves the day ( yes i have used mine for a walking stick )

 

Yes another 'save the day' would be for keeping your trousers up - lol. Seriously though, they do have a place and that is keeping a bore snake in the pocket for a time when due to a slip/fall, debris enters the bore whilst out in the field. Yes as above, a decent rod and bore guide is the correct/safest/more thorough way of cleaning the bore.

 

Bore snakes are for shooters who want to cut corners - if you will excuse the pun.

[HUnter_zero 58]

Been following the thread with interest.

 

My understanding is that the greatest risk from using a bore snake is when the pull cord snaps, leaving the nylon braid in the barrel. A rifle-smith friend assures me that there is no way to remove this braid with out barrel damage, hence the reason he lovingly calls bore snakes "The turn screws friend".

 

I carry a .243/.308 bore snake whilst I am stalking but would only use as a very last resort if the barrel became saturated. I'm not exactly sure how people use bore snakes to remove barrel obstructions, the pull through weight/cord would not shift a fly, let alone break through a mud plug.

I guess if you are prepared to push a stick up the barrel to first try to remove a mud plug, then a bore snake isn't going to worry you.

 

John

Edited September 18, 2011 by HUnter_zero