What's this "Line Bred" Nonsense ?

[j1985 1,984]

Also you only have to look at greys and more so pitbulls to see line breeding/inbreeding will give a higher percentage of the genes you want to be passed down.

 

 

 

I've never seen a pedigree for a Greyhound that was line bred. Could you post a link from www.greyhound-data.com of just one line bred greyhound??????

Thanks in advance.

 

 

LINEBREEDING

This method is used consistently by breeders. It involves the mating of dogs that are related past the third generation. Usually grandfather to granddaughter or niece to uncle. This method is used by breeders to allow them to amplify a certain trait without the risks of inbreeding.

 

just dug one up - Droopys Sandy

[the_stig 6,614]

inbreeding is mating closely related -- father to daughter, mother to son, brother to sister.,.line breeding is more distanley related cousins , grandparents to grandchildren , .. most breeding plans should use a combination of both with at some stage a distanley related or an unrelated out cross being introduced .. line breeding will have or bring out faults inbreeding will bring them out generations earlier -- for breeding to type for looks or work inbreeding is a short cut to what linebreeding will produce ...

[trenchfoot 4,243]

When is line breeding too close? i was led to believe that in breeding or "line breeding" means there is a higher risk of deformities in animals and humans... i know some breed father daughter or mother and son, is this not a bit "close" and you run the risk of having health defects i thought this was how KC dogs became so f**cked up?

If you over rely upon too closely related lines, then yes problems will occur. A good breeder has to be honest with themselves and accept when fresh blood being adding to the mix.

 

Thats why hound shows had/have their benefit. It allows opportunities to find fresh bloodlines before breeding throws you a curve ball.

[richie198 28]

even breeding a good dog and bitch together your going to get a mix of different traits, now the trait you wanted when you bred to that dog may not come out in the pup you've picked or some of the pups

 

a dog been an animal that has evolved this far ,is still breeding with an evolutionary aspect ,that means that your going to have some active and direct pups, some less direct and more cautious ones, and so on ,every trait needing in the wild will be in some shape or form in every litter,

 

In a litter of wolf pups ,since nature in the wild is unpredictable will have to cover all angles, not all the pup will have the same speed, some will be more vocal,some will be direct and dominant usually the ones that will take a head or nose hold when hunting and some will be leg holders and more submissive because the pack need to cover all traits in the same litter,,and its exactly the same in every litter of pups born to every bitch anywhere in the world,same principle

 

so when someone comes on and says What is a blah crossed with a blah like,,f**k nows what its like, because you cant narrow every genetic trait down to a single dog and bitch,

 

so what im saying is, no matter what good intentions you may have when planning a mating,unless you run the litter on and pick out traits you like in a pup when they mature a bit,your still just taking a shot in the dark in every litter,,

i totally agree with this mate and think that people

over look the way a pack hunts together their is

a dog to cover every aspect as you said

their is know wastage in a wolf pack.

and as you said to get the best you would have

to run the pack on to pick the leader cause face it

everyone would want the leader.

anyway that subject goes onto a hole other topic

[Bryan 1,362]

Also you only have to look at greys and more so pitbulls to see line breeding/inbreeding will give a higher percentage of the genes you want to be passed down.

I've never seen a pedigree for a Greyhound that was line bred. Could you post a link from www.greyhound-data.com of just one line bred greyhound?????? Thanks in advance.

LINEBREEDING This method is used consistently by breeders. It involves the mating of dogs that are related past the third generation. Usually grandfather to granddaughter or niece to uncle. This method is used by breeders to allow them to amplify a certain trait without the risks of inbreeding. just dug one up - Droopys Sandy

 

But they are all more than 3 generations away from each other in Sandy's pedigree?

[MagyarAgar 88]

If you never knew the breeding how do you know it wasn't line bred ? Also you only have to look at greys and more so pitbulls to see line breeding/inbreeding will give a higher percentage of the genes you want to be passed down (bold is from me).

 

My guess is you got lucky, maybe you should have line bred of him haha

 

- Never ever will this be the case. Good and Bad Genes will get passed on roughly in the same percentage.

You never can control which gene gets passed on when you breed. There is genetic recombination, point mutation, genetic drift and so on.

 

- line breeding and inbreeding decrease the genetical variance, which means you get more homozygous Allels. Which is often seen as strengthen a type or line.

BUT the problem is you dont want homzygous dogs. Because most health defects appear when the are homozygous in a gene, because they are recessive.

 

- genetical variance (also called being heterozygous) is wanted, it increases overall fitness. (Ever heard of survial of the fittest?)

 

- ever heard of hybrid vigour? You wont get this effect in line or inbred animals

 

So want I want to say if you want to produce (breed) the best dogs, then search for 4 things in this order in a mating.

1. the healthiest dog

2. the dog with the best temper

3. the best performing dog

4. the least related dog

 

After these most important things you can look after other traits you want to have in your dogs.

 

If you follow these prinicipals in this order you get the best out of your dogs in the long run.

 

Obviously today, everybody is looking for the short term benefits. And here sometimes line breeding and inbreeding give you a advantage.

 

Hopefully I could clear some things up.

I dont want to offend you in any way.

I only wanted to point out that what you said is against genetic science.

 

excuse my bad english, I am not a native speaker.

 

 

Cheers,

MagyarAgar

Edited September 15, 2011 by MagyarAgar

[j1985 1,984]

Basically what I should have said was that if you started with good health tested stock your more likely to pass down good genes, I was using my phone when I wrote that so I was trying to be to the point.

[MOO 730]

There seems to be this reoccurring notion that for a dog to be “top class” it has to have heritage i.e. come from top class “working lines” Let me tell you, that is first class Nonsense.

 

May I tell you about a pup I was given when I was 15 years old, it was given to me as the “runt of the litter” by a travelling chap from Waterloo site in Pembroke Dock. Its sire and dam? A couple of mangy looking lurchers from the site.

 

After a year of neglect (in terms of training) I started working him, the damn thing wouldn’t listen for no one (he never did). . But, over the coming few years this dog did some incredible things, including stopping 5 Hares in one night in amazing fashion. Catch two rabbits in the space of 20 seconds on the lamp, and stop an impressive roe buck in awesome circumstance - just a couple examples of many, many.

 

This dog was 27”tts, he would clear 6 feet with a grin, no idea (regretfully) of his cross, would guess at saluki, bull, collie, greyhound. He’d work for himself, sometimes with me, but rarely for me. . Many flaws in obedience (fault, my own) but a machine of a dog.

 

Line bred? Forget it; a lurcher is a mutt not a pedigree, but marvellous mutt at that.

 

R.I.P “Pup” a boys best friend.

Your hound was maybe top class to you but in reality maybe wasnt top class

Edited September 15, 2011 by MOO

[MagyarAgar 88]

Basically what I should have said was that if you started with good health tested stock your more likely to pass down good genes, I was using my phone when I wrote that so I was trying to be to the point.

 

Yeah but you have the healthiest stock when it has high percentage of heterozygous allels.

And what I was trying to say is that line- and inbreeding elevate the level homozygosity and hence lower overall fitness. Have a look into modern stock breeding. They have many hybridbreeds. There are also efforts for trying to find lost allels and revive them with outcrossing and so on. They also do genetic screenings to find the best mating partners. In dog breeding we are milenia behind stockbreeding!

 

Cheers,

MagyarAgar

[the_stig 6,614]

if you put shit to shit you`ll get shit .. if you put the best to the best you hope you`ll get the best ..in the `s i bougt 3 pairs of top bloodline racing pigeons young birds unraced untested -- from these 3 pairs i bred and raced a team of young birds that won all but 2 club races and topped the fed 3 times - raced hard trained hard and culled hard once i`d got what i wanted i wanted to make it the best - went on to have a lot of success with them till i packed up .. 4 years prior to buying in these 3 pair i had shit and won feck all.. once you`ve got the right bloodlines then its up you to test it the max before you do anything with it .. if you breed from good sound healthy tested stock be it in bred line bred whatever you should get what you want ... for me buying good bloodlines paid off its what you do with it when you`ve got it that counts ..

[the_stig 6,614]

my grandad was a pig farmer -- he used to say of hybrid vigour -- bigger better stronger healthier..

Edited September 15, 2011 by the_stig

[chartpolski 24,555]

I don't think the OP was talking about "line breeding" in the traditional sense; I think he was on about breeding from proven lines of working dogs. Of course you stand a better chance of getting a decent pup if you breed top class worker to worker, but nothing is guaranteed, and it is possible to get a good worker out of two non-workers, but it is better if the parents are definately from working stock. Hybrid vigour has been mentioned, and topclass dogs can be bred from first crosses, and you have a good idea what a first cross will look like, whereas with "worker to worker", not all breeders tell the exact truth as to how their dogs are bred, and some pups turn out nothing like you'd expect !! The breeding of a pup is very important, but the raisng and entering is also very important in how a pup turns out. The best bred pup in the world will not make a good'un if it is fed shite and left in a kennel all it's life !

 

Cheers.

[Tiny 7 1,694]

When all said and done,

 

If you were on the market for a pup and you had 2 litters too pick from

 

1 One that the breeder could trace back say 4 gen both side worker x worker all the way and decent and execelled at takeing quarry season after season night in night out day in day out,

 

Or one that had an been bred by someone that had an ex-racer and walked past the farm collie (Just for instance) when the bitch was on heat, Too get a litter,

 

What one would you honestly pick

 

(And iam just useig that as an example)

[paca 4]

the genes put into a dog dont make it ,it's what you put into it....

[inan 841]

the genes put into a dog dont make it ,it's what you put into it....

Silk purse ,sow's ear comes to mind .