cull or keep?????

[WILF 46,610]

Its possible to sicken any living thing if you dont use your head, but some dogs are shit.......end of story.

 

Very true, i would just doubt that many dogs, after performing well for say 4 seasons, would suddenly 'become' shit one night, on rabbits?

 

After 4 seasons and on rabbits if the dog had been doing well, you would deffo look for other causes to a dog underperforming, thats a no brainer imho, but if there are no other causes then it may just have chucked in the towel.....it happens.

[Ideation 8,216]

I guess it all depends on a lot of factors -

 

If you run rabbits, chances of getting a jacker are pretty low to non existant i would think.

 

Fox, pre ban, you will obviously have some that just won't do it or are poor at it, and if that was the dogs purpose then . . . .

 

There is also a difference between culling a dog that has 'jacked' or failed, and culling a dog that has not made the level that you wished in the time you wanted, based upon some internet forum yard stick.

the humble rabbit will jack more dogs than you think.

 

That'd be the owner mate, rather than the rabbit.

 

Lack of fitness, poor bond etc etc.

f**k off lol lack of commitment from the dog on the cases ive seen.

 

Any real reason to be rude? Or are you 14 and it's par for the course?

 

How many decent lurchers will 'jack' as in, refuse to run or tackle rabbits?

 

And in comparisson, how many will refuse to tackle a fox or deer (pre ban) ?

 

I feel, that if they will not run bunnys, but have been, then it is probably down to lack of fitness, an unseen injury, or poor entering etc. The number of lurchers that will point blank refuse to ever run one, must be low.

 

Remember we are talking 'jacking', not, just being a bit average.

 

Now, when you reply, try to do so without telling me to 'f**k off' . . . . i know it's hard, but with practice you might get there one day.

and rude is trying to tell me it was down to something else,other than the dog just refusing

 

So having a different opinion is rude? I didn't say the dog did not refuse.

 

All i initially said was that you will get a far higher number of out and out jackers if your quarry is/was fox/deer rather than rabbits.

 

 

Dotty - if it suddenly happened age 4/5, i would be asking some questions, and looking for a few other things before labelling it as a jacker.

 

. . . and if that was just how it ran from the off, i'd call it an average / shit dog.

 

 

so aint an average or shit dog a jacker???

i understand some dogs have better ability that others, but trying is a must imo, an running half hearted aint trying, no matter where ye stand an look in from...

 

to me a jacker is a dog that will not give its best..... each an everytime......

 

the fact of the matter is, if adog jacks, i dont condeme it, i try an find out why, but barring injurys an obvious truama, how can you diagnose why a dog has jacked????

 

To me (and i could be wrong), an average or shit dog is just that.

 

A dog that refuses to do the task needed is a jacker. So aye, if a dog suddenly stops running rabbits affectivly then maybe it's a 'jacker'. But how often does that happen (not counting collie based dogs whos running style people personaly don't like)?

 

I just stated that i'm sure more dogs refuse to run / tackle fox/deer than rabbits.

 

I just find it difficult to accept that a dog doing the biz on rabbits will just one day after a few seasons of working well, just stop trying. Surely in this case as you said, it's more likely to be down to fitness, an injury, or silly slips etc from the handler.

 

Maybe i'm naive, just that i have not experianced it or spoken to anyone who has.

 

Whereas on other quarry i have come across it.

[junior 267]

Its possible to sicken any living thing if you dont use your head, but some dogs are shit.......end of story.

 

Very true, i would just doubt that many dogs, after performing well for say 4 seasons, would suddenly 'become' shit one night, on rabbits?

 

After 4 seasons and on rabbits if the dog had been doing well, you would deffo look for other causes to a dog underperforming, thats a no brainer imho, but if there are no other causes then it may just have chucked in the towel.....it happens.

who mentioned "one night" you know a dog well enough after that amount of time to notice a change,put it down to a off night?give it a break?only to go out again and watch it all happen again,like wilf says it happens!and alot more than you like to think

[Ideation 8,216]

I guess it all depends on a lot of factors -

 

If you run rabbits, chances of getting a jacker are pretty low to non existant i would think.

 

Fox, pre ban, you will obviously have some that just won't do it or are poor at it, and if that was the dogs purpose then . . . .

 

There is also a difference between culling a dog that has 'jacked' or failed, and culling a dog that has not made the level that you wished in the time you wanted, based upon some internet forum yard stick.

the humble rabbit will jack more dogs than you think.

 

That'd be the owner mate, rather than the rabbit.

 

Lack of fitness, poor bond etc etc.

f**k off lol lack of commitment from the dog on the cases ive seen.

 

Any real reason to be rude? Or are you 14 and it's par for the course?

 

How many decent lurchers will 'jack' as in, refuse to run or tackle rabbits?

 

And in comparisson, how many will refuse to tackle a fox or deer (pre ban) ?

 

I feel, that if they will not run bunnys, but have been, then it is probably down to lack of fitness, an unseen injury, or poor entering etc. The number of lurchers that will point blank refuse to ever run one, must be low.

 

Remember we are talking 'jacking', not, just being a bit average.

 

Now, when you reply, try to do so without telling me to 'f**k off' . . . . i know it's hard, but with practice you might get there one day.

and rude is trying to tell me it was down to something else,other than the dog just refusing

 

So having a different opinion is rude? I didn't say the dog did not refuse.

 

All i initially said was that you will get a far higher number of out and out jackers if your quarry is/was fox/deer rather than rabbits.

 

 

Dotty - if it suddenly happened age 4/5, i would be asking some questions, and looking for a few other things before labelling it as a jacker.

 

. . . and if that was just how it ran from the off, i'd call it an average / shit dog.

it wasnt an opinion you said it was down to that,when i can assure you it wasnt.

 

Perhaps you need to learn that every comment people make in conversation / discussion is not directly about your own experiance and intended as an insult / put down.

 

I think it is fair to say (as i did) that if a dog that has been performing well, suddenly stops doing so, then perhaps i would be inclined to question the dogs fitness, wheather it's carrying an injury, or if i as the dog man had done something (s) daft to sicken the dog, before i labelled it as 'shit'.

and perhaps you need to stop listening to your own voice ffs,ive had a look threw and it seems you question everybody elses actions experiences,that means one of 2 things your a old man talking from experience or someone who thinks they know it all and is not willing to take in other folks take on things.could be both

 

It's a site for discussing stuff mate, and learning. It's only through questioning folk about what they are talking about, that you get to learn.

 

"Nice dog [bANNED TEXT]" doesn't get you that far . . . . .

 

Now stop trying to be so argumentative, you can have as many of those as you like in school. Being rude isn't needed, it's just childish, and i seem to remember your the one telling me to "f**k off", for having a different opinion to you.

 

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

[DottyDoo 500]

well i have persoannly seen a couple a dog throw in the towel so to speak on bunnys after a decent start to life......

 

 

so it deffo does happen.....

 

 

 

lets look at yer theory like this then, do ye reckon the ammount of fox dogs bred equalls the number of rabbit dogs bred an worked???

 

do you think more rabbit dogs would fail to make the grade if folk were honest with themselves????????

 

we all know a guy or 2 that keeps collie or saluki blooded lurchers, dogs that will an do pick runs....

yet they still run an take bunnys with the dogs, grranted its the bunnys the dogs have chose an not the lamper lol

 

if all these bunnymen were to put the same do or die standards on there dogs as the hedgle splitting, running everything wae 110% commitment foxdogs do, do ye reckon there wid more jackers????

[Ideation 8,216]

Its possible to sicken any living thing if you dont use your head, but some dogs are shit.......end of story.

 

Very true, i would just doubt that many dogs, after performing well for say 4 seasons, would suddenly 'become' shit one night, on rabbits?

 

After 4 seasons and on rabbits if the dog had been doing well, you would deffo look for other causes to a dog underperforming, thats a no brainer imho, but if there are no other causes then it may just have chucked in the towel.....it happens.

who mentioned "one night" you know a dog well enough after that amount of time to notice a change,put it down to a off night?give it a break?only to go out again and watch it all happen again,like wilf says it happens!and alot more than you like to think

 

OK, well maybe explain a bit more and tell people to "f**k off" a bit less. . . . . and you might make your point clearer.

 

I am not trying to cause an argument, i'm just interested what makes you think a dog would chuck in the towel on that quarry at that stage in it's career?

 

And i only said that it was a lot lot lot less likely to happen if only working rabbits, than if working larger game or teeth.

 

Which you cannot deny surely?

[DottyDoo 500]

Its possible to sicken any living thing if you dont use your head, but some dogs are shit.......end of story.

 

Very true, i would just doubt that many dogs, after performing well for say 4 seasons, would suddenly 'become' shit one night, on rabbits?

 

After 4 seasons and on rabbits if the dog had been doing well, you would deffo look for other causes to a dog underperforming, thats a no brainer imho, but if there are no other causes then it may just have chucked in the towel.....it happens.

who mentioned "one night" you know a dog well enough after that amount of time to notice a change,put it down to a off night?give it a break?only to go out again and watch it all happen again,like wilf says it happens!and alot more than you like to think

 

OK, well maybe explain a bit more and tell people to "f**k off" a bit less. . . . . and you might make your point clearer.

 

I am not trying to cause an argument, i'm just interested what makes you think a dog would chuck in the towel on that quarry at that stage in it's career?

 

And i only said that it was a lot lot lot less likely to happen if only working rabbits, than if working larger game or teeth.

 

Which you cannot deny surely?

 

 

maybe it just got sick a getting cold an wet an wanted the easy life on the sofa watching eastenders

[junior 267]

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

 

where have i argued?i gave my 1 pence worth and you said no it was this that and the other that caused it lol,your just asking for a reaction with that,and i know that the dog just jacked end of no ifs or buts it quit fair and square.

as for the "f**k off" im sure a lol followed it as i found what you replied with to be a silly statement,i know not all dogmen are made of the right salts but neither are all dogs.oh an accusing someone of being at school is silly,childish,looking for a arguement now grow up mate.

[Ideation 8,216]

well i have persoannly seen a couple a dog throw in the towel so to speak on bunnys after a decent start to life......

 

 

so it deffo does happen.....

 

 

 

lets look at yer theory like this then, do ye reckon the ammount of fox dogs bred equalls the number of rabbit dogs bred an worked???

 

do you think more rabbit dogs would fail to make the grade if folk were honest with themselves????????

 

we all know a guy or 2 that keeps collie or saluki blooded lurchers, dogs that will an do pick runs....

yet they still run an take bunnys with the dogs, grranted its the bunnys the dogs have chose an not the lamper lol

 

if all these bunnymen were to put the same do or die standards on there dogs as the hedgle splitting, running everything wae 110% commitment foxdogs do, do ye reckon there wid more jackers????

 

I'd say these days the number of 'fox dogs' getting bred is getting up there mate haha.

 

What is 'the grade'? When it comes to bunnies? As long as you are bagging up, surely that's what counts, rather than a dog that will put 110% into something it won't catch?

 

But i do agree on the last bit mate, you are probably right, if the hardest of standards was put across all dogs than we would have a lot more 'jackers', that's par for the course.

 

I also think the internet has led to a lot more dogs being labelled as jackers.

 

As mentioned before though, so folk want to go out, have good sport, catch good numbers and enjoy their dogs, others want to have the BEST dog and might catch 50 rabbits, but will spend more time thinking about the 10 they feel they should have caught, than the 50 they did.

 

And i'm not knocking the second group as they are the ones that ultimatly create the best dogs that you'd want a pup off. But you also cannot look down on the former group as being 'inferior' in attitude, as long as they tell no lies. . . .

[Ideation 8,216]

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

 

where have i argued?i gave my 1 pence worth and you said no it was this that and the other that caused it lol,your just asking for a reaction with that,and i know that the dog just jacked end of no ifs or buts it quit fair and square.

as for the "f**k off" im sure a lol followed it as i found what you replied with to be a silly statement,i know not all dogmen are made of the right salts but neither are all dogs.oh an accusing someone of being at school is silly,childish,looking for a arguement now grow up mate.

 

So it "just jacked"? Fair enough.

 

No offence mate, but you are hard work. lol.

[Guest sam]

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

 

where have i argued?i gave my 1 pence worth and you said no it was this that and the other that caused it lol,your just asking for a reaction with that,and i know that the dog just jacked end of no ifs or buts it quit fair and square.

as for the "f**k off" im sure a lol followed it as i found what you replied with to be a silly statement,i know not all dogmen are made of the right salts but neither are all dogs.oh an accusing someone of being at school is silly,childish,looking for a arguement now grow up mate.

 

So it "just jacked"? Fair enough.

 

No offence mate, but you are hard work. lol.

 

thats why no one likes him

[DottyDoo 500]

well i have persoannly seen a couple a dog throw in the towel so to speak on bunnys after a decent start to life......

 

 

so it deffo does happen.....

 

 

 

lets look at yer theory like this then, do ye reckon the ammount of fox dogs bred equalls the number of rabbit dogs bred an worked???

 

do you think more rabbit dogs would fail to make the grade if folk were honest with themselves????????

 

we all know a guy or 2 that keeps collie or saluki blooded lurchers, dogs that will an do pick runs....

yet they still run an take bunnys with the dogs, grranted its the bunnys the dogs have chose an not the lamper lol

 

if all these bunnymen were to put the same do or die standards on there dogs as the hedgle splitting, running everything wae 110% commitment foxdogs do, do ye reckon there wid more jackers????

 

I'd say these days the number of 'fox dogs' getting bred is getting up there mate haha.

 

What is 'the grade'? When it comes to bunnies? As long as you are bagging up, surely that's what counts, rather than a dog that will put 110% into something it won't catch?

 

But i do agree on the last bit mate, you are probably right, if the hardest of standards was put across all dogs than we would have a lot more 'jackers', that's par for the course.

 

I also think the internet has led to a lot more dogs being labelled as jackers.

 

As mentioned before though, so folk want to go out, have good sport, catch good numbers and enjoy their dogs, others want to have the BEST dog and might catch 50 rabbits, but will spend more time thinking about the 10 they feel they should have caught, than the 50 they did.

 

And i'm not knocking the second group as they are the ones that ultimatly create the best dogs that you'd want a pup off. But you also cannot look down on the former group as being 'inferior' in attitude, as long as they tell no lies. . . .

 

 

mate all i can say is you make it sound as tho ye aint ever been lampin, or atleast not done a lot...

 

i have on numerous occasions, an i mean more times than i have finger an toes

 

seen a bunnys sitting a few foot maybe from a hedge/fence/cover or 1 a the many places they head when threatened, an a dog shown it on the lamp,

only for the dog to either look away an pretend not to have seen it, or walk a few paces up the beam an stand there,

 

noo heres where it gets intresting lol

 

put that potlicker on a lead, slip a decent dog with a bit of drive an i have seen that bunny that yer so called clever mutt, has just refused to run, turn an run opposite way, quick course an catch, an thats another bunny in the bag lol

 

imo thats the diffrence between a jacker an a lamp dog....

 

the difrrentce bettween a average/good bunny dog comes down to a lot a thing, reterive, steadyness, lots of them,

but to gee 110% is a must in any working dog i will own, anything else is a jacker....

 

you said a dog that runs half hearted at a bunny aint a jacker, its shit, well i disagree, a dg which runs full speed an just cannot strike or keep the pace is shite

a dog which runs half hearted is a jacker

[junior 267]

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

 

where have i argued?i gave my 1 pence worth and you said no it was this that and the other that caused it lol,your just asking for a reaction with that,and i know that the dog just jacked end of no ifs or buts it quit fair and square.

as for the "f**k off" im sure a lol followed it as i found what you replied with to be a silly statement,i know not all dogmen are made of the right salts but neither are all dogs.oh an accusing someone of being at school is silly,childish,looking for a arguement now grow up mate.

 

So it "just jacked"? Fair enough.

 

No offence mate, but you are hard work. lol.

 

thats why no one likes him

i couldnt care less,and as for being hard work,the hard work is trying to get it in to your skull that "rabbit" dogs jack.

[Ideation 8,216]

well i have persoannly seen a couple a dog throw in the towel so to speak on bunnys after a decent start to life......

 

 

so it deffo does happen.....

 

 

 

lets look at yer theory like this then, do ye reckon the ammount of fox dogs bred equalls the number of rabbit dogs bred an worked???

 

do you think more rabbit dogs would fail to make the grade if folk were honest with themselves????????

 

we all know a guy or 2 that keeps collie or saluki blooded lurchers, dogs that will an do pick runs....

yet they still run an take bunnys with the dogs, grranted its the bunnys the dogs have chose an not the lamper lol

 

if all these bunnymen were to put the same do or die standards on there dogs as the hedgle splitting, running everything wae 110% commitment foxdogs do, do ye reckon there wid more jackers????

 

I'd say these days the number of 'fox dogs' getting bred is getting up there mate haha.

 

What is 'the grade'? When it comes to bunnies? As long as you are bagging up, surely that's what counts, rather than a dog that will put 110% into something it won't catch?

 

But i do agree on the last bit mate, you are probably right, if the hardest of standards was put across all dogs than we would have a lot more 'jackers', that's par for the course.

 

I also think the internet has led to a lot more dogs being labelled as jackers.

 

As mentioned before though, so folk want to go out, have good sport, catch good numbers and enjoy their dogs, others want to have the BEST dog and might catch 50 rabbits, but will spend more time thinking about the 10 they feel they should have caught, than the 50 they did.

 

And i'm not knocking the second group as they are the ones that ultimatly create the best dogs that you'd want a pup off. But you also cannot look down on the former group as being 'inferior' in attitude, as long as they tell no lies. . . .

 

 

mate all i can say is you make it sound as tho ye aint ever been lampin, or atleast not done a lot...

 

i have on numerous occasions, an i mean more times than i have finger an toes

 

seen a bunnys sitting a few foot maybe from a hedge/fence/cover or 1 a the many places they head when threatened, an a dog shown it on the lamp,

only for the dog to either look away an pretend not to have seen it, or walk a few paces up the beam an stand there,

 

noo heres where it gets intresting lol

 

put that potlicker on a lead, slip a decent dog with a bit of drive an i have seen that bunny that yer so called clever mutt, has just refused to run, turn an run opposite way, quick course an catch, an thats another bunny in the bag lol

 

imo thats the diffrence between a jacker an a lamp dog....

 

the difrrentce bettween a average/good bunny dog comes down to a lot a thing, reterive, steadyness, lots of them,

but to gee 110% is a must in any working dog i will own, anything else is a jacker....

 

you said a dog that runs half hearted at a bunny aint a jacker, its shit, well i disagree, a dg which runs full speed an just cannot strike or keep the pace is shite

a dog which runs half hearted is a jacker

 

Fairpoint, and i've seen plenty enough bunnies bounced off a fence they were sat by, or out of cover, thank you Mr Doo. Maybe i've been lucky, but i've seen a good few dogs miss rabbits they should have maybe caught but none refuse to run them, or do so half hearted.

 

But no, lamping ain't my main thing, and i'll happily admit that.

 

I think we are debating terminology.

 

I just thought a jacker had to 'jack' something in, i.e give it up, rather than just be crap at it?

 

When i said it was 'just shit' i meant the dog that always has run half hearted, rather than used to run well and now has stopped doing so.

 

But it really don't make a difference, crap is crap.

 

Just different folk have different ideas of how crap is worth a bullet.

 

Anyhow, nice chatting to you Dotty, i'm off to find some scran.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Ideation

[Ideation 8,216]

I'm just interested in what you think could have made your dog suddenly refuse to run rabbits at 4/5 years old, being that you said it was an experianced and fit dog, that had been performing well over a few seasons?

 

where have i argued?i gave my 1 pence worth and you said no it was this that and the other that caused it lol,your just asking for a reaction with that,and i know that the dog just jacked end of no ifs or buts it quit fair and square.

as for the "f**k off" im sure a lol followed it as i found what you replied with to be a silly statement,i know not all dogmen are made of the right salts but neither are all dogs.oh an accusing someone of being at school is silly,childish,looking for a arguement now grow up mate.

 

So it "just jacked"? Fair enough.

 

No offence mate, but you are hard work. lol.

 

thats why no one likes him

i couldnt care less,and as for being hard work,the hard work is trying to get it in to your skull that "rabbit" dogs jack.

 

As much as fox and deer dogs? Cos that was my only point in the first place lol.