advice needed when lamping dog running the whole field

[rabbit mad 10]

call it back and shine the light at your feet and plenty of praise it will pick it up soon. good luck

[skycat 6,173]

Excellent article I must admit I haven't tried doing that, but I do make sure the recall is spot on in the day time first.

 

Something else which is worth remembering is that a lot of people start young dogs off on the lamp at exactly the age when their prey drive is kicking in big time. From around 8-12 months is when most pups are ready to stick two fingers up at you if it seems as though you're 'interrupting' their fun. Take them out on a dark night, with so much more game and scent around than during the day, and the temptation is often too great, especially if the dog knows the ground and understands the quarry from its day time work/walks.

 

I really think it helps to wait a bit until the dog has gone through the stroppy teenage stage before lamping. I know that some pups are always willing to please, come back straight away, but high drive dogs which are desperate to catch will often keep on running when they can hear and smell prey all around them at night. Concentrate on day time work: ferreting is great for keeping a dog close to you and focused, and getting reward of fur in its mouth.

[Guest born to run1083]

I'd disagree penny I wouldn't push further in the day. this will create more problems. I know all dogs aint the same but got a prime example. I have a collie/grey here she has always been very bidable at night as she's never been worked or round quarry much in the day so hasn't learned her other senses well yet and when during the day I've kept her close and not let her range, at night she has been spot on. perfect really. great recall. great lamp work, no hunting up or anything. and for her age a prity good catch dog , I could even work her off the slip as she was so bidable . a few will vouch on here who have seen her. but this week I went ferreting twice and let her find quarry to run to ground and I lamped her the day after. all the above obedience went straight out the window I had a dog who thought hunting quarry up was now exceptable at night. so like the above post I wrote to help the lad she's now nocturnal again untill I feel her primary trade is firmly ingrained into her brain.

Edited September 5, 2011 by born to run1083

[alan626 305]

i had the same problem wit my pup i was bringing places and lads were saying did u not give him any recall training ... so wat i started doing was when he was sent down after a rabbit and he missed and wasent coming back i turn of the lamp and i would get across the field about 50 yards so when he did come back up i wasent there he would get into a panic and use his nose to find me . so now when i slip him he runs his corse if he misses he straight back up as they say the penny is droping the only problem is he not coming right to my feet he staying about 10 feet away any body know how i can over come this cheers and good luck wit ur pup mate

u could ask ur son how he trained his pup

[NickF 50]

Try this it works, good luck, have a read and try it

.STARTING_A_LAMPING_PUP.doc

 

Thats a good read, thanks, Apologies if im hijacking here but, my Bitch is 7 months and is improving all the time. One question from me though, accepting that the 'right time' is probably when the dog and owner is confident of each other, but what is a good age for a Bitch to start working?

[abley 0]

Good thread this. I've been having some similar trouble myself. Im hoping enough work and more catches will ease the dogs frustration when it does miss

[wild rover 548]

NickF, theres no hard and fast rules for starting any lurcher, as long as it is mature mentally and physically to cope with what you want it to do, depends on also what you mean by starting, taking a young dog to watch the ferrets and learn patience, scents and network is fine , taking it out and letting it do too much too soon can ruin it, same with lamping, when its mature enough to handle it, give it a few easy runs, let it learn gradually, then build on it, entered correctly you will have years of fun together, entered incorrectly and you could have a knackered lurcher before you know it.

[richie c 11]

when hes learnd the faster he gets back to you the faster hes on another bunny is [bANNED TEXT] youve cracked it, forget ferretin,thats when you want him hunting up. he needs to be out ther doing it, let him have is mad time hunting up get it out of his system, then lamp him on has many as hes capable of running,he may take 3,4 or 5 minuets to come in when he does massive praise then find him another bunny soon has and keep this up. DO NOT EXHAUST THE DOG but take the edge off him to were he cant be botherd running round a feild like a headless chicken hunting up in pitch black, keep this up for a month every other night he will get the picture.

[skycat 6,173]

Born to run>>> I agree to a certain extent, but in my experience, getting the dog right by day first has a massive impact on how it behaves at night. Pups who learn by day generally realise that there's no point tearing about like a headless chicken: providing they get enough exposure to rabbits. That's why I like to take them ferreting quite young: 5-6 months, and allow them to hunt up by day whilst out on walks. That's when I'm continually working the recall, getting them back to me over and over again so they realise that coming to me isn't the end of the hunt, but that they'll be allowed off to hunt again.

 

But I don't just take a dog out and let it hunt: I'm directing the hunt, I'm the one who says where we go and at what speed. So if we approach a bramble I'll call the pup to me, and make it walk to heel, then send it round to the other side of the bramble which I then stomp about in. I do this with no other dogs around, so the pup is learning that I'm an essential part of the rabbit catching team. This way it learns to look to me for direction: and this is after its done the headless chicken thing and failed to catch. Let it do the headless chicken thing in broad daylight when the rabbits aren't far from their burrows, and any dog with half a brain soon realises that its not going to get anywhere like that. It's then that I take it out in places where there is cover and learn to hunt with nose, ears, and most importantly, with me. Once they've made a few catches through working with me, its a lot easier to get their attention.

 

On to the lamp, and I'm not afraid to scream and bawl to get the pup back to me on the first few occasions, (so what if I spoil the lamping in that field, the rabbits will be there for next time anyway) but if you've taught the dog that a hiss (psst!) means "get here fast I've found something to hunt", they learn fast to come back, and learn that the beam means they have much better chance of catching. IMO building the team work thing by day means you have something to build on by night. Its worked for me anyway.

[morton 5,368]

when hes learnd the faster he gets back to you the faster hes on another bunny is [bANNED TEXT] youve cracked it, forget ferretin,thats when you want him hunting up. he needs to be out ther doing it, let him have is mad time hunting up get it out of his system, then lamp him on has many as hes capable of running,he may take 3,4 or 5 minuets to come in when he does massive praise then find him another bunny soon has and keep this up. DO NOT EXHAUST THE DOG but take the edge off him to were he cant be botherd running round a feild like a headless chicken hunting up in pitch black, keep this up for a month every other night he will get the picture.

Id agree with most of that,i do like them ferreting as i find it settles a dog down and learns them patience in the field.

[richie c 11]

only problem his if he starts catching rabbits in the cover while ferreting, the lads job is going to get even harder if he learns the lamp now then goes back to ferreting and obedience,he stands a better chance. only my opinion tho

[winchester 23 0]

hi everyone;

many thanks for all the advice i really appreciate it some very intresting views . I dont think keeping on lamping with him and waiting for the penny to drop about coming back to me quicker will get him more runs will work with him as he has caught a few times in the dark with the lamp off on the otherside of the field which has probally made him more confident that he dosent need my assitance..!! using a electric collar would be an absolute absolute last result as i have seen dogs zapped by a fence round pheasant pens and it has messed them up for the rest of the days beating i am guessing that an electric fencer has considerally more poke than a collar but would worry what affect it would have on a highly strung collie x.as for asking sons avice lol!!! he has done very little training i thinks its more down to that his dog stays quite close to us when day time exerciseing and constanly keeps his eyes on us coming back regually to make sure he hasnt lost us.

i will do some sit and recall with lots of praise and maybe some food treats simular to how i trained my springer to which i got him to quite a high standard more down to the quality of the dog than my prowess as a trainer!!

once again thanks to every one for thier advice and views

i find it intresting that some advice is the opppisate to other peoples advice i guess what works for some people dosent work for others and its also good to know im not on my own with this problem