Just been granted permission

[danw 1,748]

Hi all the farmer who's permission i ferret on has agreed to me getting my .f.a.c on his land !!!

He's asked if i will take care of all the pest control especially the foxes and hares which are proving a problem , could any one offer any advice on what rifles i should ask for on my ticket ??

I would like one dedicated foxing rifle and one for the hares and rabbits , also would it be worth having fac air ?

Thanks for reading

Cw

 

 

keep it simple mate a .22lr and a .223 will do every thing you want at reasonable cost for both the rifles and ammunition

[coldweld 65]

Oh right mark i did not realise at the end of the day you were Ex Force's ! That explains quite a lot .

[dixyhmr 62]

As said above .22 lr and .223. job done. simples.

 

Hmr and 22-250 if shooting on big open fields.

[tegater 789]

If you can get 17HMR conditoned on your license for Fox as some police forces do, then thats going to be cheap and effective for foxes at ranges up to 120yds as a maximum, but closer if they will come in.

 

 

What about when they are at 150 yds ?

Hmr's are are not cheap to run as you shoot of loads of rounds thinking they are cheap. But what exactly do they do ? Apart from a marketing point of view ! To much for rabbit ( .22rf is better up to 100m) Most crows in fields are out of range and marginal for an 130m fox.

 

I'm not saying they are not fun But if you can only have two rifles then .22rf and .223 is IMO the best option.

 

 

If you can get 17HMR conditoned on your license for Fox as some police forces do, then thats going to be cheap and effective for foxes at ranges up to 120yds as a maximum, but closer if they will come in.

 

 

What about when they are at 150 yds ?

Hmr's are are not cheap to run as you shoot of loads of rounds thinking they are cheap. But what exactly do they do ? Apart from a marketing point of view ! To much for rabbit ( .22rf is better up to 100m) Most crows in fields are out of range and marginal for an 130m fox.

 

I'm not saying they are not fun But if you can only have two rifles then .22rf and .223 is IMO the best option.

 

 

Completely dissagree, I shoot plenty of rabbits, Oh, was out this afternoon and had 2, one at 187yds and one 196 yds, both shot in the chest and went down like a lead ballon, you struggle to find the entry wound and there is no exit wound, and they are still perfectly edible. The same happens when you shoot a closer ranges, I know this as I have a 17HMR and shoot it a lot, and yes it is cheap to shoot as you should still only use one shot and not a plethora of quick shots

 

Crows out of range?, depends on what ground your shooting over, I have found the crows on my permission are still within range of 17HMR even at 180yds, once you get to know your calibres 'rainbow' its all achievable, I have found its always the wind thats hard to read.

 

As for your fox shooting and distance etc comment, dont be pedantic, its never clever. Plenty of people shooting Fox with 17HMR and its always in print in the recent shooting magazines. Most of the foxes I have shot with my 223 have been at ranges well under 150yds, So yes getting an 'opportunits fox' condition on your ticket is a good bonus.

 

Have you ever had a 17HMR a 223 or a 22 rimmy mate?

Thanks

Mark

Bang on with this one. I use .17hmr daily and out of all the rifles I can use, the .17hmr is the most versatile. Cheap compared to CF, highly effective on long range corvids, and bunnies, and more than capable against foxes, if you can use it for that, and have the skill to place the bullet in the heart or brain. (if you can't then you won't do it with a CF either) I also have to say that almost all foxes I lamp are shot at less than 100m, although as we all know they always look further in the lamp.

It's up to you there is some good advice on here, but also remember this one, and that is the .22 is more likely to ricochet than the .17, which surely has got to make it a little safer, as we all miss at times, and one thing is for certain, we cannot predict where that bullet is going if we get one.

I love using CF as well, but the .17hmr, kills more vermin, and that is what I do.

[markha 99]

Oh right mark i did not realise at the end of the day you were Ex Force's ! That explains quite a lot .

 

So I say my piece and all you can do is, what appears to be a sarcastic sideswipe at someone who served their country Grows some balls pal or dont talk bollocks if you cant stand someone saying your talking crap, simple as,, wind your neck in and jog on You say you have had all these guns, my guess is you never learned anything from shooting them and thats why your self proclaimed comments of not being and expert is quiet right.

[HUnter_zero 58]

Im ex forces and have been about and done a bit,

 

With all due respect, ex-forces means diddly squat. The number of self proclaimed "ex-forces snipers" I have seen shoot, is testament.

 

Bottom line is that a .17HMR isn't suitable for fox control. The OP requested information regrading the most suited rounds for fox, rabbit and hare. As such, the basic line here is as already said .223 & .22rf. The .223 isn't the best round for fox, but it does a wonderful job. The .22rf is an all time great and is very suited to rabbit control and well used on hare, although my favorite hare round is the .22H. All this 180 yard sh!te and 200 yard sh!te, being ex-forces try using some field craft and get a bit closer because having to shoot rabbits at 200 yards isn't something to brag about. This is civvy street and rabbits don't shoot back.

Not so long ago people took pride in getting as close as they could to their quarry, some how we seem to have lost that and think it's top notch to shoot rabbits, foxes and deer at extreme range. The two fundamental of good rifle shoot are summed up with "If you can get more steady, get more steady" & " If you can get closer, get closer".

 

John

[danw 1,748]

"If you can get more steady, get more steady" & " If you can get closer, get closer".

 

wise words :thumbs:

[markha 99]

Im ex forces and have been about and done a bit,

 

With all due respect, ex-forces means diddly squat. The number of self proclaimed "ex-forces snipers" I have seen shoot, is testament.

 

Who said anything about ex-forces snipers? certainly not me, never typed a word of it, so dont put that shit in there pal.

 

Bottom line is that a .17HMR isn't suitable for fox control. The OP requested information regrading the most suited rounds for fox, rabbit and hare. As such, the basic line here is as already said .223 & .22rf. The .223 isn't the best round for fox, but it does a wonderful job. The .22rf is an all time great and is very suited to rabbit control and well used on hare, although my favorite hare round is the .22H.

 

All this 180 yard sh!te and 200 yard sh!te, being ex-forces try using some field craft and get a bit closer because having to shoot rabbits at 200 yards isn't something to brag about.

 

Not a brag, a fact, some places I shoot have a massive problem and simply stalking around is not going to get the job done for the landowners, and pointing out that for small game at distance 17HMR is a good calibre as well as for fox at closer distance. If you can get 17HMR for fox on your FAC then go for it, that was just my opinion.

 

I dont shoot rabbit, corvid or fox for sport, I shoot them because they are a pest species that all my permissions want rid of.

 

This is civvy street and rabbits don't shoot back.

Cant be bothered to reply as its just a bone comment.

 

Not so long ago people took pride in getting as close as they could to their quarry, some how we seem to have lost that and think it's top notch to shoot rabbits, foxes and deer at extreme range.The two fundamental of good rifle shoot are summed up with "If you can get more steady, get more steady" & " If you can get closer, get closer".

 

I shoot air rifle on other permissions and still stalk close in the lovely longer grass we have before the 2nd or 3rd sillage cut of the year.

 

John

 

Get off your high horse, I state an opinion and have a bit of banter with Coldweld and you jump right in here spouting about ex-forces self proclaimed snipers! I dont see me typing anything of the sort, so a pointless comment and also very sorry you witnessed some poor shooting from some walts, as all the lads I know who finished the course are very good at what they do for a living.

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

Get off your high horse, I state an opinion and have a bit of banter with Coldweld and you jump right in here spouting about ex-forces self proclaimed snipers! I dont see me typing anything of the sort, so a pointless comment and also very sorry you witnessed some poor shooting from some walts, as all the lads I know who finished the course are very good at what they do for a living.

 

It was you who had to spout the ex-forces crap! Just because you were (may have been) a soldier means nothing at all. It's like saying because I am a rifle shooter I would make a good soldier, load of old cobblers. What you were actually doing was to bring an emotive subject in to a conversation to try and back up your misguided point and it hasn't worked.

You might be bloody great at a figure of eight maneuver, or driving a tank and you might be good at saying bravo one over and out but that has no reflection on civilian shooting at all, so why bring it to the conversation.

 

John

Edited September 1, 2011 by HUnter_zero

[markha 99]

John, because what I used to do for a living did infact involve good use of a lot of different firearms and couldnt be arse to be drawn in to a cock measuring contest with Coldweld who listed his possession of so many different calibres as well as hand guns.

 

 

And again I never spouted any bullshit about ex-forces sniper, you did I think, As for trying to bring in to play an 'emotive subject in to a missguided point''???

What missguided point? that 17HMR is a good versatile calibre?

 

So I could have just said yea I have shot this this this oh and this blah blah blah arent i great, that however would be bullshit, me having been in the army is not bullshit.

[HUnter_zero 58]

What missguided point? that 17HMR is a good versatile calibre?.

 

As long as you can see where I was coming from. I have no wish to have an argument with you, but as I say being "ex-military" has little or no real impact on civilian vermin control and in some cases no impact at all.

Okay, the .17HMR will kill foxes, but it is my understanding most FLA will not issue a .17HMR for fox control anymore. I can not speak from experience as I have never owned a .17HMR and doubt I ever will as I have no need with the exception of may be a dedicated NV set-up for rabbits due to ranges being very hard to estimate with NV scopes. The flat trajectory of the HMR would seem ideal. All said and done, I know a few chaps who illegally shoot foxes with their HMR's (they only have for vermin on their FAC) and they tell me that it's a very good round right out to 150 yards on foxes. I'll stick to my .243" with 58 grain V-max.

 

John

[tegater 789]

Pheww. I though this post was going the way some other posts go, on different parts of the forum, that just end up slagging each other off.

 

Valid points on both sides of the argument, and one thing it highlights is that different people may use the same calibre for completly different reasons. I use .17hmr for purely killing vermin and the occasional rabbit for the ferrets-not really for sport, although I do enjoy what I do. In many places it is impossible to get any closer to corvids, and they have to be whacked at long range -no choice. (or decoyed to shotgun)

When I go down to my sisters farm in Berkshire, the .17hmr is completley unsuitable because of the terrain, close proximity of other farms etc, (slightly more noise) This is were the .22RF is in a world of its own, against the 100's of bunnies she wants killing.

 

Thanks gents, for a healthy discussion!

[catchwrestler 31]

Thank you for all the comments and advice lads , am going to have a good long think as to what calibre rimfire and centrefire i will put on my application .

I will be walking the land and stalking up the rabbits and foxes i would say at a max range of 60-70 yards so maybe the 22lr for my rimfire slot would be a better option ??

I think i will maybe try and find someone to tag along with and explain a little bit more about possible calibres and actually show me what they can do !

[HUnter_zero 58]

I think your first port of call is to contact the firearms licensing office (FLO) and ask them what the land has been passed for. They will tell you what the maximum calibre of firearm you can use on the land in 'their' opinion. It is possible that the land has never been passed for any type of firearm use or it could be that back in the day it was passed for .243. Until you know that, you are in the dark.

 

My honest and true advise is this, dead is dead and you can never be over gunned, you can never have too much power. The Internet is full of people offering advice (myself inc.) and some of the people will be restricted with the maximum calibre they can own*, as such they will swear that the one they have is the best and that's the one you should have. More often than not it's based on the fact that they have never owned anything bigger. Plenty of people shoot foxes with .308.

 

Shooting at night means you want to be as silent as possible or believe me, you will end up losing your new found permission, this means a .22rf (which everyone needs to cut their teeth on IMHO). After that you want to purchase the maximum calibre that the police will grant. It's unlikely they will grant a centre fire on your first application (see *) but they might. By far and wide a .22WMR is better in every way than a .17HMR when it comes to fox shooting.

 

It might be the case that your only option will be a .22rf & .22WMR for a few years, remembering that most FLO will not grant a .17HMR for fox control.

 

When you move in to centre fire calibres, the toss up is due to inherent accuracy and trajectory parameters, for example a .22-250 is a long range fox round and will have a better trajectory than say a .222 but will not beat a .243 if at some point you will also be shooting deer. You have recoil and muzzle report. Never going to shoot further than 100 yards, why bother with a heavy calibre (not that .22 centre fires or 6mm centre fires are heavy calibres). A .222 is a sweet and very accurate round, low recoil, low muzzle report as far as centre fires go and has taken many 1000's of foxes. Which ever you choose, the rounds will all do the job, .222, .223, .22-250, .243 or a whole bunch of others .204, .17, the list goes on and on each with it's own dedicated followers.

 

Some will say let finances sway your mind, for example the .223 is cheaper to feed than a .222 because you can use military ( the use of military 5.56mm in a civilian .223 is another hot potato ), truth is that if you want to squeeze the very last drop of accuracy out of your rifle you will need to reload and as such, the cost is very similar as all the .22 centre fire calibres shoot the same bullets with differing velocities, for example a .222 55 grain with a velocity of 2900 fps, .22-250 55 grain bullet 3500 fps, .22 Cheetah 55 grain bullet 4000 fps. All shooting .224" diameter 55 grain bullets, with the .222 giving 1027 Ft Lb ME, .22-250 1496 Ft Lb ME and .22C 1954 Ft Lb ME. Hey all kill foxes at 100 yards (the .17HMR 220 Ft Lb ME)

 

So in truth, once you know what the maximum calibre you will be granted is, put your hand in a pot and pick one, my choice was .243, may mates .22-250, another .223 we all kill foxes

 

John

Edited September 2, 2011 by HUnter_zero

[tegater 789]

Good advice. But speak to your Licencing department before, and if, you go down the WMR route, as many are reluctant to authorise for fox, due to it being a RF, even though it is a better foxing round, than the hummer.