Marr Lodge

[Rake aboot 4,936]

Fined again,, for failure to control deer!!

 

Try calling up and offering to help with the cull for free to gain experience!!!! and be offered hind days for 250 bucks a time,, hahahahahahaha they can`t be arsed taking the deer off the hill to economise,, but want big bucks to shoot cull beasts,, they will probably write the fine off against tax,,

[Caprelous 217]

Fined again,, for failure to control deer!!

 

Try calling up and offering to help with the cull for free to gain experience!!!! and be offered hind days for 250 bucks a time,, hahahahahahaha they can`t be arsed taking the deer off the hill to economise,, but want big bucks to shoot cull beasts,, they will probably write the fine off against tax,,

 

 

http://www.scottishg...ar-lodge-fiasco

It appears that there has been a lot of publicity in the past and comment from locals and employed keepers of the excessive numbers of deer culled by the National Trust for Scotland ,to protect the regeneration of the Caledonian Regeneration Program and the National Trust for Scotland Admit that the deer control should have been implemented earlier.

 

http://www.scottishg...ts-stalker-quit

 

There are only a few ways of controlling deer from causing damage to the environment one is by installing high enough fences to keep them off the other is by culling with a rifle other methods are not as effective.

 

So what else can the trust do, without knowing the full facts it appears that they have reduced numbers by culling by half, I presume from the fuss that Scottish National Heritage feel the numbers achieved havent been enough I may be wrong in that assumption without knowing the full facts its hard to make a personal comment.

 

I noted in previous articles there was consternation from locals and ramblers that deer carcasses were being left on the hill , and this was the largest complaint what truth in that though is not confirmed and may be rumours.

In the defence of The National Trust for Scotland I understand that some of the beasts culled were in areas of difficult extraction and it is those beasts culled that has provoked public awareness and concern in the length of time getting them off the hill. without knowing the full facts it is hard to believe if this was true or not , Its something that needs sorting thats for sure as such adverse publicity does not bade well Either for Scottish Natural Heritage , The nation Trust for Scotland and Deer control generally as such adverse publicity can only bring deer management into disrepute.

 

SNH are they saying not enough culling of animals have been made or are they saying too many have been culled or are they saying that culling should not have taken place and fencing should have been done to protect the new forest or what.

It is all very confusing to say the least.

 

In my view a survey of the deer on the ground should have been made and a deer management plan formulated and agreed with SNH prior to any form of deer control and time schedule agreed, this then would have not left The National Trust for Scotland open to its critics and they would not be in this position if such an agreement been made SNH would have been in a better position to control the operation as well so they are both to blame for this fiasco for not putting it into practice in the first instance .

 

Its to easy pointing the finger of mistake after the event when those in authority to prevent it did not act but let it happen. Just my opinion mind

 

One thing is for sure erecting deer fences costs mega money and the practicalities of that in respect to erecting fences at Mar may be totally a non option and culling deer may have been the only option on the table without knowing the full facts in all this its hard to comment one way or another but a feasability study either way initially in the Deer Management Control Program would highlight viable options open to them at an early stage.

As we all know its all to do with money and the effective use of it

Regards

Stuart

[Greek Phil 5]

As I understand it the 3 parties involved the RSPB, SNH and NTfS. had an agreed managemnet plan. which entailed reducing the red deer population by over 70%. To this end they would actually start their hind culls 10 -14 days before the season opened.

 

There was a very interesting interview with the estate manager shown on BBC Scotland about a year ago. Where he explained the thought processes and the actions taken and why. Whole valleys were cleared of deer. For me It was staggering to seen having had the opportunity to both stalk and visit those hills a number of times in the past.

 

One of the practical interests for me was that the contract stalkers were instructed to use copper bullets at the insistence of the RSPB. As they were concerned at possibility of poisoning raptors feeding on the gralloch and un-recovered carcasses.Which reminds me I shall have to make a point of asking them how that went.

[Greek Phil 5]

Try calling up and offering to help with the cull for free to gain experience!!!!

 

Contract culling is no place for a novice. Nor is it a place for an amateur to gain some experience for free. You don't have the time to nurse maid anyone, and you don't have the inclination for someone to play tag along.

 

Its a job of work and a bloody hard one at that.

[Caprelous 217]

As I understand it the 3 parties involved the RSPB, SNH and NTfS. had an agreed managemnet plan. which entailed reducing the red deer population by over 70%. To this end they would actually start their hind culls 10 -14 days before the season opened.

 

There was a very interesting interview with the estate manager shown on BBC Scotland about a year ago. Where he explained the thought processes and the actions taken and why. Whole valleys were cleared of deer. For me It was staggering to seen having had the opportunity to both stalk and visit those hills a number of times in the past.

 

One of the practical interests for me was that the contract stalkers were instructed to use copper bullets at the insistence of the RSPB. As they were concerned at possibility of poisoning raptors feeding on the gralloch and un-recovered carcasses.Which reminds me I shall have to make a point of asking them how that went.

 

 

 

If thats the case that these parties were involved at an early stage working together, why wasnt the Deer Management plan monitored and re adjusted during the plans progression ,and why is it the National Trust for Scotlands /Management are being singled out as not meeting the targets when its a joint game plan then if what you say is true.

 

It dosent hold water if the SNH had been involved surely the game plan would be constantly under review and the required adjustments put into play would it not, you cant stand outside responsibility if your involved with its inception and planning or am i missing something here.

 

Stu

[Greek Phil 5]

You'll have to ask those questions of those directly involved. If you ever get the opportunity.

 

Whether they would be inclined to answer them is different matter.

[Hoolit 2]

If my memory is correct i am sure Peter Fraser and other experts in this field including im sure the Scottish Gamekeepers Association warned them they could not acheive this cull and the most areas would be cheaper and more efective if they deer fenced they areas concerned .

As is the norm in this country the goverment and local athorities never liston to the people on the ground with decades of experience they would rather liston to the RSPB and the like SNH were well warned this would happen.

 

Keep smiling Hoolit.

[Hoolit 2]

I remember Peter Fraser comenting that they were treating this fine beast as no better than vermin.

What a sad day for stalking when Red deer and wildlife in general are treated in this way .

Keep smiling Hoolit

[Greek Phil 5]

Is this the article you remember?

 

 

FLAWED NATIONAL TRUST DEER POLICY PROMPTS STALKER TO QUIT

 

12th December 2010

The National Trust for Scotland's (NTS) decision to shoot hungry deer seeking shelter inside forestry plantations during heavy snow falls earlier this year was the last straw for senior Deeside stalker Stewart Cumming.

For several years he had been forced to carry out the Trust's policy of relentless year-round deer culling in order to protect a Scots pine regeneration project. He and many other experienced stalkers had advised that fencing off the area would be more effective and would save the herd from being decimated.

Mr Cumming told the Scotland on Sunday newspaper: "It was wrong to keep on shooting deer when they were seeking shelter in such a hard winter. I do not agree with that. Fencing would have done the job of protecting the trees."

SGA vice-chairman Peter Fraser said the same policy was being adopted on many other estates across the country.

He added: "Stag numbers especially have fallen dangerously low in some parts of the country. Every experienced deer manager is saying the same as Stewart. Much of the problem is man-made and the result of stupid policies.

"There is abuse of deer because of unfenced forests and abuse of public money. The NTS have mucked about with this for 15 years and have very little to show for it. They should admit they made a mistake and put up fences."

The NTS bought the 72,000 acre estate in 1995. Between 1995-2008 Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) contributed £672,977 of taxpayers money for stalking and shooting at Mar Lodge and provided a total of £2,768,486 for a variety of projects during the Trust's 15 year ownership.

The SGA has repeatedly called on the Trust to rethink their policy on deer management.

Last year the Trust's Mar Lodge manager Alexander Bennett told Scottish Gamekeeper magazine the NTS had failed to meet targets.

"We haven't been successful," he conceded. "We certainly haven't achieved the level of regeneration we wanted and are now trying to look at what is practical."

The Government's advisers, the Deer Commission for Scotland (now incorporated with SNH) also told a public meeting in Braemar in 2009 that it believed the work at Mar Lodge to have been "a failure".

There have also been complaints from tourism providers in the village of Braemar that the red deer visitors love to see have all been culled.

 

http://www.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk/content/flawed-national-trust-deer-policy-prompts-stalker-quit

 

Heres the article n the Scotman about Stewart Cummings interview regarding his decision to quit and move away from Deeside.

 

http://news.scotsman.com/news/Keeper-quits-over-National-Trust.6657868.jp

[Hoolit 2]

Aye Greek Phil the article sums it up perfectly ,what a farce the tax payer paying again for one balls after another .

 

Remember the tail docking advice they took from the RCVS and SSPCA, my boss has had two of his own dogs at the vet to have tails shortened due to the damage they received after only one season.

 

I think in Scotland we are in a fairly dangerous position ,as our parliament sit on their arses in edinburgh and take as law every word spouted out by the RSPB SSPCA and the the like.

We have only one body lobbying on our behalf in Edinburgh and thats the SGA they desrve all the support we can give them or our children or grandchildren may never know this great sport of ours .

 

Keep smiling Hoolit

[Greek Phil 5]

Well someone must have voted your SMP's into their seats.

[Hoolit 2]

Well someone must have voted your SMP's into their seats.

Aye Im afraid the shooting community is in the minority in scotland if not Britain but we all know from past promises that politicians have made, the chances of them doing what they say they will is very slim.

But the SGA is making progress and with a bit more time we can get our point over .

 

Keep smiling Hoolit

[events co-ordinator 353]

It does'nt help that Richard Lochead is the environment minister most people forget he was the original proposer of the protection of wild mammals bill in Scotland before it was given to Watson my ex msp and celebrated criminal arsonist to push through under Jack the zipper Mconnell (honest I was only an Adulterer for a wee while) now we have Henry Mcleish resigned in disgrace first Minister top man in Scottish Football and in the Jimmy Reid foundation (mind check the accounts) we will put up with any SHITE in Scotland.