Terrier prices/terrier gifts

[THE DEALER! 77]

Ive given pups away or just for the price of innoculations. All ive ever asked is they get plenty of work.

 

If I took a pup from someone else (gift/loan) then I would respect the terms that came with it if any. If I couldnt I wouldnt accept the pup.

 

fareplay jd waz, if all others were just like you. if i ever gave a pup to a friend all i would ask is if he dont make the grade put him down. and i would give him another pup from next litter if i ever sold a pup i would say if your ever parting with the pup i will give you your money back , if you part with the pup to someone else then your no longer my friend, just an aquaintance.never to get a pup again.

[Mosby 355]

Like I said, It would depend on what the situation is. With someone just getting into terriers I haven't expected anything from them because they have no background to base an expectation on. I guess the point I've been making in the last few posts is - make what is expected known in no unclear terms or you just end up getting screwed and losing friends. This is where Hoss' question comes into play, "what are you protecting?" Generations of work. It's not so much that I'm afraid of someone ruining my line (nonexistent at this point) it is that I want to accelerate the process of breeding to get what I am aiming for. with 3 or 4 other trusted friends who have all entered into an agreement, we all get what we want 3 or 4 times as fast. If I am dealing with someone I've only known through hearsay then I don't expect anything when a pup leaves with them. Absolutely nothing. Anything they report or ask me about is just bonus. But if I expect something I make it completely clear in writing so that there can be no mistake. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Some friendships never heal from a sour puppy deal. Just this weeks threads on thl show that.

[Raymond 618]

Like I said, It would depend on what the situation is. With someone just getting into terriers I haven't expected anything from them because they have no background to base an expectation on. I guess the point I've been making in the last few posts is - make what is expected known in no unclear terms or you just end up getting screwed and losing friends. This is where Hoss' question comes into play, "what are you protecting?" Generations of work. It's not so much that I'm afraid of someone ruining my line (nonexistent at this point) it is that I want to accelerate the process of breeding to get what I am aiming for. with 3 or 4 other trusted friends who have all entered into an agreement, we all get what we want 3 or 4 times as fast. If I am dealing with someone I've only known through hearsay then I don't expect anything when a pup leaves with them. Absolutely nothing. Anything they report or ask me about is just bonus. But if I expect something I make it completely clear in writing so that there can be no mistake. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Some friendships never heal from a sour puppy deal. Just this weeks threads on thl show that.

Thats it, when I buy a pup or dog I will do what I want with it.I paid my money. The way I do things on a personal level is I would get back in touch with the breeder and give them the oppertunity to buy it back first. I would not pay for something with expectations on it. As regard being gifted a pup, I dont have to be told or asked will I give the pup back. If youve been around the right people that goes without saying. Everytime I would give the breeder first chance to take it back and I wouldnt charge them for the keep and time I put into it,weather it was 6 weeks or 6 years I had it for.If someone doesnt know me too well and asks me to keep them in mind if I am ever getting rid,I woiuld tell them that goes without saying. There just dogs at the end of the day and not worth falling out with people over. 2 people have let me down in all the years Im messing around with dogs.1 fella set himself up with what he said and offered.When I asked him he let me down. The other was the one and only time I put an expectation on a pup with an inexperienced fella. We fell out for a couple of weeks.Was it worth it no.Would I set him up with another decent dog no. Now I live in hope,If I sort someone out I just think to myself that they might do the same back.If they do it makes my day.If they dont there not worth the head space. Good luck with your pups and dogs.ATB Ray.

[THE DEALER! 77]

Noticed on the Border topic that prices are outrageous for a border. One of the guys mentioned that nobody bats an eye at spaniels and springers being priced at rates of 4-500 pounds, so why do terrier men gripe.

 

Well for one, I don't know about everyone else's neck of the woods but around here terriers and hounds are owned by the working class and poor folk. Not too many of the white collar business men in the sport. On the other hand bird hunting is much more a wealthier class sport. If a terrier has a high price... if any price at all... the guys here not only can't afford it but wouldn't dream of putting high dollars out.

 

On another note... The amount of terriers lost to their job is much higher than any bird dogger's losses. A year doesn't go by I don't hear of a good dog lost in the terrier game. Paying out large piles of cash for a dog that could go tits up within the year is not the wisest investment. If large sums of money are paid out then the dog is much less likely to be hunted... I know cause I've seen first hand, a man who bred his own hounds thought nothing of letting them run til doomsday and sometimes you just don't find your hound again, simple as. Mention letting his $500 terrier have a tussle to get a coon out to the hounds and he says she's not presentable with a marked face.

A man doesn't dig with a golden shovel and a terrier should be a workman's tool not a golden shovel hung on the wall but a steel shovel to be sunk in the earth.

Another thing with bird dogs is field trials. I know with a lot of dog sports $500 dollars can easily be made back in a competition that displays the dogs abilities (granted, field trial dogs are often shit in the field). Terriers aren't going to make anybody money except by exploiting the dogs for breeding and selling offspring that will never know it's purpose because of the risk involved and high costs of investment.

 

I don't have a problem with selling dogs and pups for a reasonable price. I never have and I've said this before. Reasonable being key here. There are costs in raising a litter and I think the man receiving a pup would be better to offer the guy who raised it a little help monetarily.

 

This brings me to the flip side. People who have been in the terrier scene for some time tearing people apart who are new to the terrier world and don't know all the cultural nuances of the group... such as selling pups for unreasonable prices is against the code. Lots of these guys bought their dogs for a high price and they know no better than to sell a litter at that price. In other dog circles that is no big deal. Rather than ripping the newbie a new a-hole, why not invite him to hunt his dogs with you on some of your permissions and teach him the culture. Working terriermen are a culture apart from the norm and that needs to be realized when men from other dog cultures enter the sport. I think some men who could be valuable to the support of terrier work are shunned away because they are ridiculed instead of taken into the brotherhood.

Another thing that drives me crazy is that some dogmen will give a dog as a so called "gift" and use that "gift" as leverage down the road when something goes down that the dogman who "gifted" the terrier didn't want to happen. I've seen it or heard it several times while on the boards. So and so says, " I gave you those dogs... blah blah blah... Everything you have is because of me..." Bull like that is so petty. When a dog is gifted, it is then the other man's dog. It becomes what it does because he worked it and raised it up... It ain't because the guy who gave it is something special. It's because the freaking dog is special and the guy who recieved it helped it reach it's potential. Damn I hate seeing the gift used as leverage. Keeps me from wanting to work with anybody to make better dogs. Some guys have great dogs but i worry about touchin em cause I'll be thrown into some kind of crazy web of coersion.

Thing is, many of us are killing the sport as much as the peddlars because we just won't give new guys a chance and we bicker like children amongst ourselves.

 

first of all i would put my hand on my heart and say i never was gifted a terrier in my life, second thing i would say is i would never except a terrier as a gift with restrictions. i think if someone puts restrictions there automatically putting them selfs on a little pedestal, thinking they have some kind of supreme knowledge over the guy thats gifted the terrier. i think every one starting in the terrier game have there own right to breed there own dog or bitch as they see fit, that in years to come they can look back and say i produced a nice strain or line of working terriers. Over the years, and more so when i was a young lad hunting with senior terriermen, i have seen the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the bitterness the falling out, all because guys put restrictions on there breeding terriers when they sold or parted with there terriers.if i was to give any advise to anyone starting in the terrier game dont take or buy a dog / bitch with restrictions, there will come a time as your knowledge improves you want to go with your own gut feeling on breeding and not someone elses that gifted you your dog. if one word could sum up your chances of a good mating or breeding i think it would be the word" "LUCK". always remember every person that has good dogs there line came from someone elses dogs.

[dixiebop 125]

Seems to me, The master as all the Knowledge and he deems who is worthy of the Knowledge being past down?

Edited August 30, 2011 by dixiebop

[VOON 1,317]

Noticed on the Border topic that prices are outrageous for a border. One of the guys mentioned that nobody bats an eye at spaniels and springers being priced at rates of 4-500 pounds, so why do terrier men gripe.

 

Well for one, I don't know about everyone else's neck of the woods but around here terriers and hounds are owned by the working class and poor folk. Not too many of the white collar business men in the sport. On the other hand bird hunting is much more a wealthier class sport. If a terrier has a high price... if any price at all... the guys here not only can't afford it but wouldn't dream of putting high dollars out.

 

On another note... The amount of terriers lost to their job is much higher than any bird dogger's losses. A year doesn't go by I don't hear of a good dog lost in the terrier game. Paying out large piles of cash for a dog that could go tits up within the year is not the wisest investment. If large sums of money are paid out then the dog is much less likely to be hunted... I know cause I've seen first hand, a man who bred his own hounds thought nothing of letting them run til doomsday and sometimes you just don't find your hound again, simple as. Mention letting his $500 terrier have a tussle to get a coon out to the hounds and he says she's not presentable with a marked face.

A man doesn't dig with a golden shovel and a terrier should be a workman's tool not a golden shovel hung on the wall but a steel shovel to be sunk in the earth.

Another thing with bird dogs is field trials. I know with a lot of dog sports $500 dollars can easily be made back in a competition that displays the dogs abilities (granted, field trial dogs are often shit in the field). Terriers aren't going to make anybody money except by exploiting the dogs for breeding and selling offspring that will never know it's purpose because of the risk involved and high costs of investment.

 

I don't have a problem with selling dogs and pups for a reasonable price. I never have and I've said this before. Reasonable being key here. There are costs in raising a litter and I think the man receiving a pup would be better to offer the guy who raised it a little help monetarily.

 

This brings me to the flip side. People who have been in the terrier scene for some time tearing people apart who are new to the terrier world and don't know all the cultural nuances of the group... such as selling pups for unreasonable prices is against the code. Lots of these guys bought their dogs for a high price and they know no better than to sell a litter at that price. In other dog circles that is no big deal. Rather than ripping the newbie a new a-hole, why not invite him to hunt his dogs with you on some of your permissions and teach him the culture. Working terriermen are a culture apart from the norm and that needs to be realized when men from other dog cultures enter the sport. I think some men who could be valuable to the support of terrier work are shunned away because they are ridiculed instead of taken into the brotherhood.

Another thing that drives me crazy is that some dogmen will give a dog as a so called "gift" and use that "gift" as leverage down the road when something goes down that the dogman who "gifted" the terrier didn't want to happen. I've seen it or heard it several times while on the boards. So and so says, " I gave you those dogs... blah blah blah... Everything you have is because of me..." Bull like that is so petty. When a dog is gifted, it is then the other man's dog. It becomes what it does because he worked it and raised it up... It ain't because the guy who gave it is something special. It's because the freaking dog is special and the guy who recieved it helped it reach it's potential. Damn I hate seeing the gift used as leverage. Keeps me from wanting to work with anybody to make better dogs. Some guys have great dogs but i worry about touchin em cause I'll be thrown into some kind of crazy web of coersion.

Thing is, many of us are killing the sport as much as the peddlars because we just won't give new guys a chance and we bicker like children amongst ourselves.

 

first of all i would put my hand on my heart and say i never was gifted a terrier in my life, second thing i would say is i would never except a terrier as a gift with restrictions. i think if someone puts restrictions there automatically putting them selfs on a little pedestal, thinking they have some kind of supreme knowledge over the guy thats gifted the terrier. i think every one starting in the terrier game have there own right to breed there own dog or bitch as they see fit, that in years to come they can look back and say i produced a nice strain or line of working terriers. Over the years, and more so when i was a young lad hunting with senior terriermen, i have seen the ins and outs, the ups and downs, the bitterness the falling out, all because guys put restrictions on there breeding terriers when they sold or parted with there terriers.if i was to give any advise to anyone starting in the terrier game dont take or buy a dog / bitch with restrictions, there will come a time as your knowledge improves you want to go with your own gut feeling on breeding and not someone elses that gifted you your dog. if one word could sum up your chances of a good mating or breeding i think it would be the word" "LUCK". always remember every person that has good dogs there line came from someone elses dogs.

 

Your on the ball there Dealer, It's been the cause of a lot of fall outs over the years. If I've had a terrier for 3 years, feeding it and working I'll want to breed it as i see fit. i will ask for advice of the original breeder and if he wants a pup of it or a service, no worries. restrictions put on gift terriers cause a lot of hassle, most lads i know gift terriers with the proviso, "if it ain't working out, i'll take her back" so you give them the option if your getting rid. Off post a little, Brother in Law bought a Patterdale pup of lad in the mid eighties, he had bought a patterdale bitch in England for £40, Fox only, but he got the service of a good Patterdale dog, and myself and the brother in law got a pair of pups of him. B-i-L has kept a line of bitches bred down from this bitch since then (small type 12-13 inches good aul workers woudlnt get a look in a show). Everytime some mentions XXX has good aul dogs, original breeder says thats my breed only for me he wouldnt have them, even though he doesnt keep terriers anymore, and it was a friend of ours got him the dog in England and the service fo the stud.dog, and as well as that we bought the dogs of him back then.

 

Voon

[THE DEALER! 77]

fully understand what your saying voon. i have always felt its up to the guy that owns and that is digging his terrers to give credit to the guy he got them from. not for the breeder to boast and brag about dogs hes bred, bit like blowing your own trumpet. to bring a 8 week old pup to an old retirement age with a few hundred digs under him will take a bit more work than the guy that bred him.

[VOON 1,317]

Just on another note, if i bought a dog in good faith (Not Stolen), and the original breeder who bred it and gifted it, came looking for it, he wouldnt be getting it unless he had the money i paid for it, and if i had the dog long enough to get attached, he wouldnt get getting it back anyhows, if he was supposed to get a pup back, he could have one, no probs, and i'd ask his advice alrite because he should have more knowledge of line than me, but he wouldn't have the final say either.

 

Voon

[THE DEALER! 77]

Just on another note, if i bought a dog in good faith (Not Stolen), and the original breeder who bred it and gifted it, came looking for it, he wouldnt be getting it unless he had the money i paid for it, and if i had the dog long enough to get attached, he wouldnt get getting it back anyhows, if he was supposed to get a pup back, he could have one, no probs, and i'd ask his advice alrite because he should have more knowledge of line than me, but he wouldn't have the final say either.

 

Voon

 

if someone knocked at my door for a dog i bought in good faith, the guy would be going out the drive way in a wheelbarrow.

[VOON 1,317]

Just on another note, if i bought a dog in good faith (Not Stolen), and the original breeder who bred it and gifted it, came looking for it, he wouldnt be getting it unless he had the money i paid for it, and if i had the dog long enough to get attached, he wouldnt get getting it back anyhows, if he was supposed to get a pup back, he could have one, no probs, and i'd ask his advice alrite because he should have more knowledge of line than me, but he wouldn't have the final say either.

 

Voon

 

if someone knocked at my door for a dog i bought in good faith, the guy would be going out the drive way in a wheelbarrow.

 

 

I'm only a weed.......but if a lad did turn after a couple days saying he had rights etc........he could head back and get my money off the lad he gave to in the first place....i didnt act the bo...x with him...it was his mate...but if it was a few months later and i was attached he wouldnt be getting him back...its nothing to do wit over bought the dog.

[THE DEALER! 77]

i think everyone should respect each others familys, arriving at someone door getting into a dispute over a dog is some thing a low life would do. what ever rights that person wants to discuss should be discussed with the guy that sold the dog, and no one else, then if the guy that sold you dog wants to speak to you, you tell him nice and politly to f**k off.

[harvey d 43]

if the people with these so called lines put their breeding in print you would see where the credit lies .

why is smithy's breeding dubious why would is breeder lie

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

 

I guess we're just old school F,M.

Some of the younger lads have the same standards and outlook on terriers too Buster...

[Guest busterdog]

Never doubted it even though i'm a low life lol .

[THE DEALER! 77]

Never doubted it even though i'm a low life lol .

 

busterdog, i know / or hope your post was put up as a joke, but i would not and did not post it refering to you or any other member, it was just a manner of speaking.