Terrier prices/terrier gifts

[MOO 730]

Nit picking pd3 lol, i said a great terrier can make an average terrierman look great. When i give a pup to someone it's theres but i expect that person to keep me in the loop so to speak, morals should play a part and that person should ask advice if they want to breed from them.

the problem with gun dogs is the pound £ if someone pays £500 for a gun dog most gun dog men see that as an investment so if the dog is not up to scratch work wise or physicaly ......9 times out of ten it will still be bred from so he can reep his money back and that is why there is so much genetic problems with gun dogs and kc registered breeds all to do with the £....

I know of a lad that had a working cocker that had won many ft s but was shooting blanks so this dog was no use to him at all ....so it was sold on ....this sums it up for me regarding gun dog men mentality ....if a terrier or lurcher man had a dog at the topof its game but was a jaffa would he sell it on ????? no most would work it and enjoy it rather than worry about makeing a few quid on stud fees ....another point about gun dog men is if they have a good dog that has won a few fts they will put it to any bitch just for the pound ...where as most terrier or lurcher men will keep there blood close and give it out for free ....

Buster dog is spot on most decent terrier and lurcher men have morals and are not blinded by the pound like most gundog men

Edited August 17, 2011 by MOO

[Cleanspade 3,324]

it is about control. controlling the bloodlines. if i take a gift i will keep it and breed it however i please. i will offer a pup or line back. but if its a gift its a gesture of trust as far as i'm concerned.

 

i would however make it clear that if i take it its mine. no strings attached. i wouldnt entertain owning and working a dog that isnt truly mine. the gift sytem works well for some. but it isnt for me. good topic

[Simoman 110]

I plan on having a litter of lurcher pups next year, my close friends are welcome to a pup for free of course, and my only stipulation would be the possibility of using a dog for stud in the future and possibly having a litter of a bitch many years down the line IF suitable, spare pups i would sell at a reasonable price and i will be very choosy where the pups go................

[Mosby 355]

"I don't give dogs out on breeding terms, thats the sort of shit pedigree puppy pedlars get up to."

I agree with most of what you've said buster... Except for this. This is actually what would solve the problems with people breeding shite to the dogs they obtain from you. I Had to think a bit when i bred a few litters this year. I knew I couldn't raise all nine out of the two breedings but I knew that keeping only half the group of pups would only give me half the options down the road. Not to mention I just wouldn't be allowing each dog to reach it's full potential by keeping every one of them and hunting them half as much. I had promised a man a pup, so I knew that would be taken into account. It was his second terrier from me and he's not what I'd call a terrier man but I gave him the pup I thought would most easily be made into a good dog for him. No strings attached. That is how I deal with people outside my circle, that may or may not at some point enter it. People inside my circle I deal with differently. And they deal differently with me as well.

We all sat down and came to an agreement to help each other achieve what we want in a breeding program. We knew that we all have slightly different wants in our dogs-- mostly to do with size or amount of jagd in the breeding. The problem with just handing out the pups you can't handle is that you will take all that much longer to reach the breeding goal. Keeping 1/3 or 1/2 will multiply the time it takes by 2 to 3 times. We wrote down the plan we thought was best and we all agreed to help eachother out.

The pact was such that we will all help with litters we agree will be good. If one of us just makes a shit breeding we don't have to help with it. They can do whatever with it but none of us wants shit. For the good breedings we take what we want in order of who has right to first pick, second, so on. When the pups have been distributed amongst us then we know they will be raised proper and worked and tested. We constantly keep eachother updated but hardly need to cause we stop by eachothers places several times a month if not a week. When the terrier is made into a hunting dog and mature we will discuss what the best breeding options will be. The person who bred the litter that the dog is out of gets the final decision in who he or she is bred to but only for the first breeding. The person who keeps that dog and then raises the litter out of it gets first choice of the litter then the person who gave the dog when it was a pup gets second pick. From then on the person who has the dog in their possession has full rights to the dog, but of course being a tight knit group, what is done with the dog will often be discussed.

I do not consider the deal my friends and I have together as "gifting". There are strings attached. Also, we trade pups around constantly depending on if one pup needs more one on one time and so and so isn't working as much so has time to work with dogs. But when I "gift" a dog, it would be nice to be consulted as to breeding, and if the guy is my buddy then of course I'm going to hear updates on the dog, but I do not expect it. It is not a requirement. A kid doesn't have to call me and tell me what he does with the christmas gift I give him and it's the same with dogs. If I expect something back in return whether it is a pup or whatever I don't leave it to word of mouth but written pen. I have heard of too many alliances broken because the expectations weren't clear on the part of who was given the dog with strings attached or they just don't give a shit about what your agreement was and you can't prove what was said in the agreement. Nick stevens thread is a good example. Guy thinks he owns dogs. Person who gave him dogs/sold him dogs says that the guy never owned dogs... could have been solved with a written contract. No confusion and we'd all know what's what and who's is who's.

[Mosby 355]

Holy crap. didn't realize I wrote a novel.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I don't think theres any need for a written contract,its good manners to go about it the way Busterdog does,I expect no different,its always nice to know where your blood is in case of accidents or studs, etc,I've gifted in the past and was only let down once when the lad died and his mrs gave the dog and my 16ft locator away to a lad that lived the other end of the country,I try to keep the best dog pup somewhere close for future studs in the event he turns out well,I've just done this last week with a litter I've just bred and it is always shook on in advance that I can use his dog for a stud as many times as I want but he is not allowed to put it over any old sh*te bitch to make money,we both get the best of a good deal this way,atb,wirralman

[Mosby 355]

It is nice to expect that a shaking of the hand will be respected. I've got a buddy who gave several dogs away across the country. I don't know the guys who ended up with the dogs but the agreement was that if ever they pass the dog on that my friend would get called first and he'd have the option to have them back. Previous to knowing this I was offered a bitch for free and I went to get her from the guy. He made it a major pain in my butt to get the bitch and then when he gave her to me after my 10 hour drive in to the middle of nowhere, the guy says not to make a big deal of getting her on the internet. I thought that was fishy but I had to go through hell to get to the guy and pick up the bitch so I figured I'd investigate later. So I got home and it hadn't even crossed my mind that the dog might be stolen until I got reading on here about dogs getting stolen. I hadn't ever imagined stealing a terrier though I heard about hounds getting nabbed in the woods all the time. I was naive(I am a youngster after all) but some posts on here put me on edge. So I called the guy and asked why it was that I couldn't mention I got a new bitch on the internet. He said someone who had her before wasn't supposed to know about her... Hmmmm. I asked for some more names and numbers kind of pretending I just wanted to know more about the bitch. I went hunting with the buddy I had mentioned earlier who had given the dogs with a promise of them being returned or him being consulted... It was the first time I'd hunted with the guy and he kept talking about this bitch he thought was with a certain man across the country and she happened to have the same name of the bitch I had been given and wondered why all the fishy behaviour surrounded her. I told him that I had that bitch. Ends up that bitch was one of the several that had been given away with the promise that the guy would get them back. Big stinkin surprise. Needless to say I don't talk to the guy who gave me that bitch anymore. The guy who she was supposed to have ended up with told me that I could keep her and I have her to this day. Hunted her yesterday in fact. I don't know how many times that has happened but really in the end there was no way to prove who was supposed to do what. On another occasion I had a litter born. I gave the two best bitch pups to a houndmen who insisted he would use them. He worked them some but the guy got into trouble went to jail and when we asked for the bitches back from his brother (I had no idea where the guy lived) he wouldn't let us get the bitches... they starved to death. I never got an apology from the guy. Never heard of him again. Another occasion, A guy had a pup out of my stuff and hunted with me often. I always told him if he didn't have room for the dog I'd take it in an instant. I loved that pup. The guy agreed time and time again that the dog would be mine if ever the need arose. I'm sitting with a buddy one day and he gets a call from a friend saying that the pup that I just wrote about was being sold for $250 dollars to some guy across the state. I was pretty ticked and I called the guy who had the pup. He said that he needed the money but he'd sell me the pup for $150 dollars. I liked the dog enough so I picked it up that night for the $150 but I won't be giving that guy a pup again I can say that much. I have had a short run so far in life but I've had enough experiences already to realize most men's word is crap. I've never had a written and signed contract broken though... that's interesting. It is a protection that is easily put up. Men I've dealt with many times have had me sign contracts. We invest enough in these dogs with our time and energy that it is worth protecting it. Especially if protection is as easy as a signed piece of paper. I like the idea of everybody being honest and all but I don't buy it that everybody is gonna be. Even friends can dissappoint.

[Hoss1 3]

Mosby, in my opinion money and dogs don't mix so in turn I don't sell any terriers or stags. We just breed for ourselfs and only let a few pups out to hopefully like minded people. One hopes those people will have enough respect for the dogs to raise them right and report back (both good and bad) but sadly that is not allways the case. If it all works out passing a pup on to someone GREAT. If it does not work so good why worry about spilt milk. I don't understand what you are "protecting" or trying to protect? If a person is breeding for there self they have a choice to keep what they want and either cull or pass extra on. So why be pissed at the receiver if things don't go as planned......After all didn't the breeder make his choice moveing one on? To me a signed piece of paper means not, and if I have the feeling there is a need for some kind of contract other than a persons word or hand shake, then I may as well not have any dealings with the person!

[fat man 4,741]

If i had a pup of someone and it did not work out or for some reason i had to get shut of it,i would always give the original owner first refusal,even if it was a terrier that would not work i would let the breeder know the story and give him the choice as what i done with it.If i had a bitch that someone else had gifted me and i wanted to breed from her then i would also contact breeder as they would know better what dog would be suitable for the bitch.Then if it was a dog and i wanted to put him across a certain bitch,i would inform the breeder i was doing the mating,but it would be a bitch belonging to myself not an outsiders.No one likes their blood been given out to everyone and anyone.

[Guest busterdog]

Words of wisdom F,M, the difference with giving and selling IMO is huge and if i get asked to use one of my dogs over a bitch then again a little background info goes along way into judging whether you let them have the use of your dog or not. Once the pups are on the ground it's up to the owner of the bitch where they go, so the background info should always be looked into first as it stops the bitching after the fact.

I guess we're just old school F,M.

[antsa 40]

"the difference with giving and selling IMO is huge", I don't think its that big really, but more down to manners, when I came across here I had to start from scratch, no digging mates etc, I had to buy in, but if was going to breed i would still call the breeder for his thoughts, after all its his years of hard work that got me a dog good enough to breed from in the first place.

[Waz 4,274]

Ive given pups away or just for the price of innoculations. All ive ever asked is they get plenty of work.

 

If I took a pup from someone else (gift/loan) then I would respect the terms that came with it if any. If I couldnt I wouldnt accept the pup.

[THE DEALER! 77]

If you sell pups i agree then you play no further part in it's life, but if you gave a pup to someone then out of respect that someone should ask your advice as to when and how you breed and the type of people you give them to. There are plenty of good terriers ruined by idiots every year but i've always said the best of the best will come through no matter what fool has them, they've got a natural ability to over come the odds that are stacked against them. As for how far it goes ?, it's all horses for courses, the first thing would be to vet anyone that would get a chance of having one, if they sold it i'de fetch it back....face to face and tell them why i was fetching it back. If they were decent enough the new owner (the person you gave it to) shouldn't even breed from the dog unless they've asked your permission, if they did there isn't much you can do but to never let them back into the fold and to withhold the breeding and future pups from them.

 

busterdog, in your post you say : if they sold it i'de fetch it back...... how would you go about fetching it back ?

[lurcher330 2,301]

i bred a litter from good working russells before there was only 3 in the litter so i kept back 1 and gave a mate of mine the other 2 a bitch and a dog they both worked out but the bitch was far better than the dog but the little prick bred from her a 2 and a half years old before she got a chance to see much work but the biggest problem was he bred her to a dog that he liked the look off because it was getting placed at every show it was at but never seen a days work in it's life the bitch had 6 pups that i did'nt even hear about until they were 5 weeks old and all ready sold but still on the bitch so i called to him with a head like a dug badger to see the pups just to see what they had turned out like and just on spite i made sure i took 2 pups from him which i gave away as pets but i heard the one's he sold turned out to be at best bushers and since that the only pups i would give to friends would be with strings attached because people breding from your own good stock back to wankers give's your stuff a bad name

Edited August 19, 2011 by lurcher330

[FightTheBan 1,147]

I plan on having a litter of lurcher pups next year, my close friends are welcome to a pup for free of course, and my only stipulation would be the possibility of using a dog for stud in the future and possibly having a litter of a bitch many years down the line IF suitable, spare pups i would sell at a reasonable price and i will be very choosy where the pups go................

 

 

Dog dealer.

 

I have just bred a litter of russels. She had 3 dogs, 3 bitches. 2 dogs and a bitch died during birth.

One bitch pup is going to a friend who put his dog over her and I am keeping the other 2. If she had anymore than 5 they would have been chapped as I had homes lined up for 5 between myself and close friends.

I couldnt have enough trust in anyone to give out a pup I had bred, whether free of charge or not. People have shat in the nest too many times with me before.

 

FTB