Plummer terriers ( pre ban )

[mighty celt 996]

wirral i realy like your type of plumber and think yhey would suite my needs as i like a terrier 2 be an allrounder earth work tracking game and must be a good busher.u seem 2 no your stuff about them and when the time is right i would like 2 purchase a pair of bitchs of good decent working parents.how some 1 can put down a whole breed of dog just cause they seen a couple fail is beyond me.u swear there was never a black dog that failed at earth work theres good and bad in every breed and u have my respect for trying to keep a good strain of plummber going. no matter what the breed if its in the dog it will do it.take no notice of all the haters mate as u will allways get them in the hunting game all the best for your season.

[FightTheBan 1,147]

wirral i realy like your type of plumber and think yhey would suite my needs as i like a terrier 2 be an allrounder earth work tracking game and must be a good busher.u seem 2 no your stuff about them and when the time is right i would like 2 purchase a pair of bitchs of good decent working parents.how some 1 can put down a whole breed of dog just cause they seen a couple fail is beyond me.u swear there was never a black dog that failed at earth work theres good and bad in every breed and u have my respect for trying to keep a good strain of plummber going. no matter what the breed if its in the dog it will do it.take no notice of all the haters mate as u will allways get them in the hunting game all the best for your season.

 

Thing is though, they have been bred shite to shite for so long that the vast majority dont have it in them.

Rearing a pup to be an earthdog always involves an element of luck, but with plummers you would need to be a fekin leprechaun to have any reasonalbe level of sucsess.

Just my opinion.

 

FTB

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

True

Show winner x show winner, failed nicely marked red dog used at stud.seen 2 yr old dogs that have been bought in on looks alone and past workers from 10 or more yrs ago being used to carry on a blood line

[mighty celt 996]

wirral i realy like your type of plumber and think yhey would suite my needs as i like a terrier 2 be an allrounder earth work tracking game and must be a good busher.u seem 2 no your stuff about them and when the time is right i would like 2 purchase a pair of bitchs of good decent working parents.how some 1 can put down a whole breed of dog just cause they seen a couple fail is beyond me.u swear there was never a black dog that failed at earth work theres good and bad in every breed and u have my respect for trying to keep a good strain of plummber going. no matter what the breed if its in the dog it will do it.take no notice of all the haters mate as u will allways get them in the hunting game all the best for your season.

 

Thing is though, they have been bred shite to shite for so long that the vast majority dont have it in them.

Rearing a pup to be an earthdog always involves an element of luck, but with plummers you would need to be a fekin leprechaun to have any reasonalbe level of sucsess.

Just my opinion.

 

FTB

true

same could be said for borders and lakelands as there going the same way but ul allways get lads that are breeding worker 2 worker and keeping a good srain going.

 

have u tried a plummber in the past pal.

[FightTheBan 1,147]

wirral i realy like your type of plumber and think yhey would suite my needs as i like a terrier 2 be an allrounder earth work tracking game and must be a good busher.u seem 2 no your stuff about them and when the time is right i would like 2 purchase a pair of bitchs of good decent working parents.how some 1 can put down a whole breed of dog just cause they seen a couple fail is beyond me.u swear there was never a black dog that failed at earth work theres good and bad in every breed and u have my respect for trying to keep a good strain of plummber going. no matter what the breed if its in the dog it will do it.take no notice of all the haters mate as u will allways get them in the hunting game all the best for your season.

 

Thing is though, they have been bred shite to shite for so long that the vast majority dont have it in them.

Rearing a pup to be an earthdog always involves an element of luck, but with plummers you would need to be a fekin leprechaun to have any reasonalbe level of sucsess.

Just my opinion.

 

FTB

true

same could be said for borders and lakelands as there going the same way but ul allways get lads that are breeding worker 2 worker and keeping a good srain going.

 

have u tried a plummber in the past pal.

 

 

No but have seen a few work and their owners openly admited they were worse than useless under the turf. Just ratters.

Agree with your point about lakies, borders and soon to be russels and pats etc aswell.

 

There is however, still many good viable strains of the above that are no where near as polluted with shite as plummers.

And there will hopefully always be genuine folk to breed and work these they way they should be.

 

No one has answered my question as to whether plummers were ever intended as earthdogs, I am still under the impression they were not.

 

FTB

[mighty celt 996]

stil would like 2 try 1 for my personal prefrence.if the breeder can prove his dogs are working well below thats half the battle i like a challenge.

 

were his plummers ikc breed or worker 2 worker

Edited August 19, 2011 by mighty celt

[FightTheBan 1,147]

Depends what you call a worker the parents chased rats and rabbits if that's what you mean.

FTB

[mighty celt 996]

no i ment workers below well theres your problem he bought of show stuff that do the odd bit of ratting and expected them 2 work below.

 

if there parents didnt work below i wouldnt have 1 simple as.

[FightTheBan 1,147]

Well you could be waiting a while. And when you do find a litter of pups bred from a proper digging bitch and a proper digging dog that the owner is willing to take you out and see graft come back a nd let us all know. I will make a wee medal for you.

 

FTB

[stormyboy 1,352]

FTB-They originated from Lines of tried and tested earth dogs and were of the type in wirralmans old photos. Some early breeders (myself included) tried to maintain the ability for ground work. Many of mine went to lads who did a lot of ground work with them and they worked well-as well as any terrier. (Several lads stated that their plummers were among the best Ground dogs they had owned). Lines began to diverge as coat colour and pattern became one of the most important breeding criteria,

Are todays plummers capable of consistent earth work? At this moment in time folks who work them to ground are in the minority,but are still doing the job in some areas and doing it well.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Fight the ban,I will answer your question as I heard it straight from his mouth(PLUMMER) he set out to create an all round intelligent terrier that could do all,earthwork was his first priority in the 70's and 80's,I was given those 2 bitches off him to try on foxes,they turned out too small,with mousey heads but their hearts were as big as lions,they would fly to ground but only for half an hour and would get badly bitten if the fox would'nt bolt,after a while they could be called out,luckily at that time I kept other terriers that were a bit harder as well,but they were ok for places requiring a quick bolt and gone.I bred these small bitches to a black fell of nuttalls and kept a bitch back that was 100% on anything,in fact I bred those bitches at least 6 times producing plenty of good earthdogs,I did try for a stud off plummer but he had become something of a bighead by then and sent me to see dogs that were far too big,these were the big dog years and only one man really kept a line of decent earthdogs and he is on here and has posted on this thread,he deserves a lot of credit for any of the working stock that survives through to now and has my utmost respect,his lines became the "REMLAP" strain,the only other guy that kept earthdogs to my knowledge was "Curtis price" and in my opinion both were driven out of the plummer scene by imposters and charlatans,there would be no decent plummers left but for these guys,there are a group of people that feel as I do that we can get back to producing a steady line of good all round terriers of the correct temperament,some of us lads that have fell out of favour with the show people just because we want the plummer terrier to be bred for work and not coat patterns still try to defend the name of this little terrier because we can see with a little effort and common drive towards getting back to the original standards then we would have the dog it was meant to be not the poor second rate ratting dog most think they are,there has been a lot of myths talked by people that never even met Plummer about it only being a rat hunting dog,and this has become what people think it was bred for,"not true" they were bred for all terrierwork or why include 12"-14" and spannable in the breed standard,why gift dogs to huntwork in the past and people like myself that are locally known for earthwork,this is my take on things and I for one will not be deterred by a bit of criticism from lads with no real working knowledge of what this little breed can do,we need more people willing to work them hard and not settle for just ratting as they are capable of more,I hope this goes some way to explaining some of the breeds history,atb,wirralman

[FightTheBan 1,147]

All this talk of conformation and breed standards.

You just admitted to breeding from substandard earthdogs that both didn't have the minerals or the statue to succeed at their job. Not once but multiple times.

How does that make you any better than the showmen.

 

Surely you should breed from the best and accept no substitute.

 

FTB

[goldfinch2007 2,332]

all of vandals stuff were mfh certificated.i think ive my old pedigree somewhere and the man they came off was no dreamer but a genuine terrier man

[stormyboy 1,352]

The "breed from the best" dictum is a good rule of thumb but no guarantee of success. Combining 2 differing lines to achieve the qualities you desire can bring good results. Its then up to you to make a dog of it and continue to breed for the qualities you want. ie; Increase the size but keep the heart or more difficult, bring size down but keep strength and heart.

Plummers are given bad rep mostly by those who know nothing about them or have any experience of them,barring seeing one or two second rate ones. I've seen some crap in other types,(and some plummers too),but wouldnt write them off on the strength of it.

One point may surprise the "knockers". the main problem I found with well bred plummers was that they could be a bit on the hard side. I prefer a bolting dog,but with some, if the fox didnt bolt sharpish,you were digging a dead fox.

 

Goldfinch-Vandal himself was refused a working cert by the ammanford because,as the master said-"I would rather he stood back a bit"! I had to laugh but did agree with him!

[steve66 3,476]

Anyone got a picture to put up of vandal ?