'European' Polecats.

[skycat 6,173]

This is a very interesting thread!

 

Some things I've noticed about the Polecat hybrids we were given last year by a trusted friend: they are, as Ferret Lady says, much more muscular,highly intelligent, their eyesight is better than your average ferret which has pretty poor eyesight in comparison. They do also move quite differently. Whereas a ferret potters along, a sort of trotting, swaying movement, our poley hybrids gallop every where at speed: they never trot, or swim along the ground. These guys really motor, bounding along much faster than normal ferrets. Their legs are thicker and a lot more muscular; even out of the working season when they are not 100% fit, they feel hard and solid when you pick them up.

 

Regarding the temperament: there is no reason why they should all be vicious or unhandlable. When humans first domesticated wild canines they would have chosen the ones which showed least fear or aggression, so even within wild canines there are those individuals which are better suited to domestication. Breed for temperament for a few years and you should get an animal which is just as easy to handle as a domestic ferret.

 

And no, this isn't just a sales pitch cos we have kits to home. I only put £8 on them to avoid the completely free to 'good home' scenario. And they won't go to the first who gets in touch either. Like pups, I only sell to people who are genuine in wanting a good working animal.

 

We wouldn't have bred from the Polecat hybrids if they hadn't been incredible workers> they are the best I've seen, ever: and having watched the parents to ours work for the first time a couple of years ago, it is true to say I was very impressed indeed.

 

[fcuktheban 140]

This is a very interesting thread!

 

Some things I've noticed about the Polecat hybrids we were given last year by a trusted friend: they are, as Ferret Lady says, much more muscular,highly intelligent, their eyesight is better than your average ferret which has pretty poor eyesight in comparison. They do also move quite differently. Whereas a ferret potters along, a sort of trotting, swaying movement, our poley hybrids gallop every where at speed: they never trot, or swim along the ground. These guys really motor, bounding along much faster than normal ferrets. Their legs are thicker and a lot more muscular; even out of the working season when they are not 100% fit, they feel hard and solid when you pick them up.

 

Regarding the temperament: there is no reason why they should all be vicious or unhandlable. When humans first domesticated wild canines they would have chosen the ones which showed least fear or aggression, so even within wild canines there are those individuals which are better suited to domestication. Breed for temperament for a few years and you should get an animal which is just as easy to handle as a domestic ferret.

 

And no, this isn't just a sales pitch cos we have kits to home. I only put £8 on them to avoid the completely free to 'good home' scenario. And they won't go to the first who gets in touch either. Like pups, I only sell to people who are genuine in wanting a good working animal.

 

We wouldn't have bred from the Polecat hybrids if they hadn't been incredible workers> they are the best I've seen, ever: and having watched the parents to ours work for the first time a couple of years ago, it is true to say I was very impressed indeed.

 

 

That's a very good price and nice to see the ferret being handled. What percentage is the ferret in the pic? I had asked others about their working ability but without a reply. I wouldn't mind introducing a wider genetic base into ferrets as long as the working and handling doesn't worsen.

[barry lurcher 27]

skycat you will get some replys to that post quite a lot negitive to say the least !!! but gotta agree with you on most stuff good luck mate stay calm

[skycat 6,173]

Our friend who bred him told me that one of his parents was pure Polecat, and the other 3/4 Polecat 1/4 domestic ferret. I can't prove it, so don't ask me to :laugh: but he does have the dna evidence, though as anyone who has ever tried to research a pedigree of any animal will know, the pedigree is only as trustworthy as the people who write them! Anything can be manipulated if people want to cheat or lie.

 

I shan't get upset if people want to be negative: the hob has nothing to prove; he is what he is: a bloody good worker with a cracking temperament, and I'm not on a crusade to try and get people to buy them. Most of the kits have gone to friends already, so there's only 4 or 5 left to go: no hurry at all.

[rob190364 2,594]

Our friend who bred him told me that one of his parents was pure Polecat, and the other 3/4 Polecat 1/4 domestic ferret. I can't prove it, so don't ask me to :laugh: but he does have the dna evidence, though as anyone who has ever tried to research a pedigree of any animal will know, the pedigree is only as trustworthy as the people who write them! Anything can be manipulated if people want to cheat or lie.

 

I shan't get upset if people want to be negative: the hob has nothing to prove; he is what he is: a bloody good worker with a cracking temperament, and I'm not on a crusade to try and get people to buy them. Most of the kits have gone to friends already, so there's only 4 or 5 left to go: no hurry at all.

you don't have any video clips of one of these polecats do you by any chance? I'd be quite interested to see the differences in movement etc. from normal ferrets you've mentioned.

 

If they do move much faster than normal ferrets that must be a pain when ferreting surely? partly because of the increased kill rate underground but also making sure you don't lose them. With a normal ferret you know that even if it popped up 30 yards away and ran at full speed in the opposite direction you could still catch them pretty easily. One of these could probably get away quite easily couldn't it?

[Ideation 8,216]

I have to say I agree with ferret lady,

what ferret lady has said is a "True Wild" polecat is geneticaly different from a ferret, so even after breeding them for a few generations they are still the Wild type geneticaly,

 

I can see where you are coming from Jai but to call a true wild type a ferret just because it works or is as tame as a ferret just doesn,t add up,

 

 

How does it not add up????? I'm sorry i must be missing something.

 

A ferret is a domesticated polecat, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Simple.

 

Selectively bred yes, but still bred down from a domesticated wild polecat.

 

It's in the dictionary mate.

 

That's just the way it is.

 

And can you actually prove to me that they are genetically different (these 'true' wild poleys) than ANY ferrets out there? Or are you just taking her word for it?

 

Can you explain to me how keeping it in a cage for a long long time and using them to hunt bunnies, has completely changed the ferrets genetic make up from it's original polecat ancestor???

[Ideation 8,216]

This is a very interesting thread!

 

Some things I've noticed about the Polecat hybrids we were given last year by a trusted friend: they are, as Ferret Lady says, much more muscular,highly intelligent, their eyesight is better than your average ferret which has pretty poor eyesight in comparison. They do also move quite differently. Whereas a ferret potters along, a sort of trotting, swaying movement, our poley hybrids gallop every where at speed: they never trot, or swim along the ground. These guys really motor, bounding along much faster than normal ferrets. Their legs are thicker and a lot more muscular; even out of the working season when they are not 100% fit, they feel hard and solid when you pick them up.

 

Regarding the temperament: there is no reason why they should all be vicious or unhandlable. When humans first domesticated wild canines they would have chosen the ones which showed least fear or aggression, so even within wild canines there are those individuals which are better suited to domestication. Breed for temperament for a few years and you should get an animal which is just as easy to handle as a domestic ferret.

 

And no, this isn't just a sales pitch cos we have kits to home. I only put £8 on them to avoid the completely free to 'good home' scenario. And they won't go to the first who gets in touch either. Like pups, I only sell to people who are genuine in wanting a good working animal.

 

We wouldn't have bred from the Polecat hybrids if they hadn't been incredible workers> they are the best I've seen, ever: and having watched the parents to ours work for the first time a couple of years ago, it is true to say I was very impressed indeed.

 

 

Sounds lovely skycat, but it also sounds EXACTLY the same as my big, dark, poley hob FERRET, that i have here (the movement, body shape, markings).

 

You are an intelligent woman who knows her animals.

 

So can you be the one to FINALLY tell me how these 'wild poleys' work better than your standard ferret?

 

I know they look nice, but how/why do they perform better at the job of rabbiting?

 

Not knocking it, i just want an answer and i never get one, just told to stop moaning, if i dont want to buy one blah blah.

 

All i'm interested in, is it's working ability . . . . . ????????

[skycat 6,173]

Ideation: I've just asked Andy, my other half, and he is the main ferreting man: I go along for the ride, take a few photos, pick up a few nets, pick up ferrets, well, basically do everything I can to help when we're one on each side of a hedge, but when it comes to putting in the hours of graft out ferreting, when push comes to shove, I tend to slip away up the hedgerow to find something else to run every so often. So the following is what he said and why he likes these polecat hybrids so much:

 

"I'd never thought about getting a Polecat or a Polecat cross, but after I'd seen B's pure polecats work I was so impressed with their strength, stamina etc, that I knew that my own line of white ferrets had seen better days. Sure, they still worked, but they didn't have the attitude and vigour of the Polecats. I'm sure there's lines of ferrets out there that work just as well as Polecat crosses, but I was offered the Polecat crosses, and am glad I did.

 

As far as killing quickly to ground, well, if a rabbit's going to bolt it will bolt no matter what. For those rabbits that won't bolt, then its pointless having a weak ferret scrabbling away at its back end for ages, wasting valuable time and energy, when the Poley cross just gets in there and kills it. OK, so I wouldn't use him in really deep warrens, but most of our warrens are shallow along hedgerows, so I take the mark, dig a foot or two at the most, and get the dead rabbit out, by which time the hob has moved on, bolted a few more or whatever.

 

The jill is a pain to work with as she is too fast, and she does hightail it down the hedge to the next warren before you can jump, which is why you need two people on hand to grab her before she does. The hob isn't like that, in fact he's more likely to come to your feet when he's finished a warren: he's laid back above ground and at home, then turns into a machine inside a warren.

 

We've crossed the jill out to the last in my white line of ferrets: a slow but steady worker, so hopefully dimming down her speed a bit. We'll have to see how the kits turn out.

 

As far as WHY use the Polecat? Well, they suit me, I like the way they work. Just as not everyone likes a Bull cross, or a Whippet type or a Saluki: well, it's a personal thing.

 

But I would say that these are the strongest ferrets I've had, tough, and with endless stamina. They just don't seem to get tired, which, during a long day, counts for a lot"

 

Hope that answers your questions!

[KittleRox 2,147]

Our friend who bred him told me that one of his parents was pure Polecat, and the other 3/4 Polecat 1/4 domestic ferret. I can't prove it, so don't ask me to :laugh: but he does have the dna evidence, though as anyone who has ever tried to research a pedigree of any animal will know, the pedigree is only as trustworthy as the people who write them! Anything can be manipulated if people want to cheat or lie.

 

I shan't get upset if people want to be negative: the hob has nothing to prove; he is what he is: a bloody good worker with a cracking temperament, and I'm not on a crusade to try and get people to buy them. Most of the kits have gone to friends already, so there's only 4 or 5 left to go: no hurry at all.

you don't have any video clips of one of these polecats do you by any chance? I'd be quite interested to see the differences in movement etc. from normal ferrets you've mentioned.

 

If they do move much faster than normal ferrets that must be a pain when ferreting surely? partly because of the increased kill rate underground but also making sure you don't lose them. With a normal ferret you know that even if it popped up 30 yards away and ran at full speed in the opposite direction you could still catch them pretty easily. One of these could probably get away quite easily couldn't it?

Good question

[KittleRox 2,147]

I have to say I agree with ferret lady,

what ferret lady has said is a "True Wild" polecat is geneticaly different from a ferret, so even after breeding them for a few generations they are still the Wild type geneticaly,

 

I can see where you are coming from Jai but to call a true wild type a ferret just because it works or is as tame as a ferret just doesn,t add up,

 

 

How does it not add up????? I'm sorry i must be missing something.

 

A ferret is a domesticated polecat, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Simple.

 

Selectively bred yes, but still bred down from a domesticated wild polecat.

 

It's in the dictionary mate.

 

That's just the way it is.

 

And can you actually prove to me that they are genetically different (these 'true' wild poleys) than ANY ferrets out there? Or are you just taking her word for it?

 

Can you explain to me how keeping it in a cage for a long long time and using them to hunt bunnies, has completely changed the ferrets genetic make up from it's original polecat ancestor???

I must admit I,m struggling a bit to find the words but I can see what I,m trying to say in my head lol,

 

The best way I think I can put is

its a bit like putting lets say a saluki and a wolf in front of you and telling you they are the same, well I suppose they are but then again SORRY but they ain,t the same animal

Edited July 26, 2011 by KittleRox

[skycat 6,173]

 

If they do move much faster than normal ferrets that must be a pain when ferreting surely? partly because of the increased kill rate underground but also making sure you don't lose them. With a normal ferret you know that even if it popped up 30 yards away and ran at full speed in the opposite direction you could still catch them pretty easily. One of these could probably get away quite easily couldn't it?

 

They're not that fast :laugh: Even I can catch them and I'm an old crippled has been After all, they still have little short legs just like all mustelids.

 

As far as I'm concerned the only downside is the colour which doesn't show up as much in thick cover as a white ferret. Though with the Marklll box even that isn't a problem. And they don't stay above ground for long: all they want to do is find the next set of holes.

[barry lurcher 27]

Ideation: I've just asked Andy, my other half, and he is the main ferreting man: I go along for the ride, take a few photos, pick up a few nets, pick up ferrets, well, basically do everything I can to help when we're one on each side of a hedge, but when it comes to putting in the hours of graft out ferreting, when push comes to shove, I tend to slip away up the hedgerow to find something else to run every so often. So the following is what he said and why he likes these polecat hybrids so much:

 

"I'd never thought about getting a Polecat or a Polecat cross, but after I'd seen B's pure polecats work I was so impressed with their strength, stamina etc, that I knew that my own line of white ferrets had seen better days. Sure, they still worked, but they didn't have the attitude and vigour of the Polecats. I'm sure there's lines of ferrets out there that work just as well as Polecat crosses, but I was offered the Polecat crosses, and am glad I did.

 

As far as killing quickly to ground, well, if a rabbit's going to bolt it will bolt no matter what. For those rabbits that won't bolt, then its pointless having a weak ferret scrabbling away at its back end for ages, wasting valuable time and energy, when the Poley cross just gets in there and kills it. OK, so I wouldn't use him in really deep warrens, but most of our warrens are shallow along hedgerows, so I take the mark, dig a foot or two at the most, and get the dead rabbit out, by which time the hob has moved on, bolted a few more or whatever.

 

The jill is a pain to work with as she is too fast, and she does hightail it down the hedge to the next warren before you can jump, which is why you need two people on hand to grab her before she does. The hob isn't like that, in fact he's more likely to come to your feet when he's finished a warren: he's laid back above ground and at home, then turns into a machine inside a warren.

 

We've crossed the jill out to the last in my white line of ferrets: a slow but steady worker, so hopefully dimming down her speed a bit. We'll have to see how the kits turn out.

 

As far as WHY use the Polecat? Well, they suit me, I like the way they work. Just as not everyone likes a Bull cross, or a Whippet type or a Saluki: well, it's a personal thing.

 

But I would say that these are the strongest ferrets I've had, tough, and with endless stamina. They just don't seem to get tired, which, during a long day, counts for a lot"

 

Hope that answers your questions!

hi skycat good replies i worked a halfcross last years a hob was very good i think no different to my other domesticated ferrets a tad faster but i got a little jill off someone this year and she is off both wild caught parents the chap i got it off said if you want a worker then the 1st crosses are much better i am hoping to work this little jill but gotta agree they are like grease lighting much much faster {i am not slagging the humble polecat off i work 3 jills myself they are wicked } its just a challenge i want to try myself if it dont work out it will be kept as a pet

[Ideation 8,216]

Ideation: I've just asked Andy, my other half, and he is the main ferreting man: I go along for the ride, take a few photos, pick up a few nets, pick up ferrets, well, basically do everything I can to help when we're one on each side of a hedge, but when it comes to putting in the hours of graft out ferreting, when push comes to shove, I tend to slip away up the hedgerow to find something else to run every so often. So the following is what he said and why he likes these polecat hybrids so much:

 

"I'd never thought about getting a Polecat or a Polecat cross, but after I'd seen B's pure polecats work I was so impressed with their strength, stamina etc, that I knew that my own line of white ferrets had seen better days. Sure, they still worked, but they didn't have the attitude and vigour of the Polecats. I'm sure there's lines of ferrets out there that work just as well as Polecat crosses, but I was offered the Polecat crosses, and am glad I did.

 

As far as killing quickly to ground, well, if a rabbit's going to bolt it will bolt no matter what. For those rabbits that won't bolt, then its pointless having a weak ferret scrabbling away at its back end for ages, wasting valuable time and energy, when the Poley cross just gets in there and kills it. OK, so I wouldn't use him in really deep warrens, but most of our warrens are shallow along hedgerows, so I take the mark, dig a foot or two at the most, and get the dead rabbit out, by which time the hob has moved on, bolted a few more or whatever.

 

The jill is a pain to work with as she is too fast, and she does hightail it down the hedge to the next warren before you can jump, which is why you need two people on hand to grab her before she does. The hob isn't like that, in fact he's more likely to come to your feet when he's finished a warren: he's laid back above ground and at home, then turns into a machine inside a warren.

 

We've crossed the jill out to the last in my white line of ferrets: a slow but steady worker, so hopefully dimming down her speed a bit. We'll have to see how the kits turn out.

 

As far as WHY use the Polecat? Well, they suit me, I like the way they work. Just as not everyone likes a Bull cross, or a Whippet type or a Saluki: well, it's a personal thing.

 

But I would say that these are the strongest ferrets I've had, tough, and with endless stamina. They just don't seem to get tired, which, during a long day, counts for a lot"

 

Hope that answers your questions!

 

 

Thankyou very much Skycat (and Andy). That is the first time someone has taken the time to answer my question.

 

I will say though, and this is not me being cocky, but i think i (and my ferreting partner) may have one of those lines of ferrets that he mentions in his first paragraph.

 

To all intents and purposes, the ferrets we use, behave exactly like the polecat crosses that you/he describes. Strong, quick, never tire and work all day, every day come winter.

 

Quite possibly, if my line of ferrets, were slow, or took a long time to kill or bully a rabbit etc, i may feel the need to introduce some 'wild' blood.

 

But for now they do what the poleys seem to do, they bolt or kill every bunny, in a time quick enough for me, so i will stick with them.

 

One last thing - after reading a lot of different bits and pieces it seems to me that what many are using is the blood of feral ferrets, rather than true polecats, in order to add a bit of 'wild spark' to their line. I suggest this, as there is a lot of evidence to suggest that nearly ALL of our 'wild poleys' are in fact feral ferrets or a mish mash or the two at best.

 

As long as it works for you, and you are happy, crack on.

 

I just get tired of the "oh you 'only' have ferrets. . . . hmmmm cannot be a 'hardcore' ferreter then, or you would be using those e.u poleys"

 

At the rate it's going though, as the 'fashion' spreads as they are prone to do, i will end up being the only one in the country with a 'pure' hard working line of ferrets.

[ferret lady 73]

Ferret lady are you going to work then as i know the jill did a bit ?.

 

I'm in the US, so don't have the opportunity to work them...sure wish I could, as she certainly seems to have strong hunting instincts. Her daughter shows the same strong instincts at only 10 weeks old.

 

Skycat, I really, really like the pics of your hob! He is just about a dead ringer for the hob I imported from Sam3009. Basil also has an outstanding temperament and can be readily handled by anyone. He thoroughly enjoys interacting and playing with all the visitors who come to see the kits...and the kits seem to have his temperament, especially his daughter.

 

She is determined that everyone who comes in will pay attention to her. If anyone puts their hand into the kit pen, she leaps into their hand and wraps her feet around the arm, waiting to be picked up. Her dam is more stand offish with strangers, but will tolerate handling without biting.

 

Ideation, I have read several articles over the years dealing with the genetic differences between polecats and ferrets. One of the most detailed is a chapter in John Lewington's revised book, written by Bob Church. The part that is pertinent to this discussion is titled "Changes caused by domestication." You might want to get a copy of this or have someone scan it for you.

Edited July 26, 2011 by ferret lady

[Ideation 8,216]

Nice one ferret lady, you are not the first to raise said book, and i have looked at sections briefly.

 

So these 'wild poleys' that you have taken, then domesticated, then bred from, further domesticating their offspring. . . . . . i suppose they do not become ferrets, as they are not subject to "changes caused by domestication"?

 

Did your original breeding stock come from the U.K?

 

Out of interest how do you tell that the jill you have (and her offspring) have strong hunting instincts?

 

Just for reference i am not trying to start a fight with you, it's just an info gathering exercise and something to kill time until september.

 

Just for your interest -http://www.vwt.org.uk/downloads/HybridizationPolecatsFerrets.pdf