Quality

[just hunt 69]

I remember as a young lad comming across the older

lads out digging .Pre ban .I would of had our russell type

with me and was duley told to put him on a lead

Bearing in mind i was prob 8 or 10 at the time

 

They were just finnishing up and had 4 lads created up

for trials i suppose

But what has always stuck in my mind was the type of dogs

2 wheatens and a staff on there chains and 2 jacks

The jacks were short big headed long boddied and white

 

These men had 2 tools to do the job .2 very diffrent types of dog

The russels being sounders .

 

Back then a dog had to give thongue or he was no good and a dog

was judged on how loud he gave it ,all you would be asked back then by

the old lads was ,whats his voice like .

 

Different times lads ....

[liamdelaney 2,587]

lads i think give respect to old billy the stuff of today or yesterday,if he wanted really to move he would.the size now of the dog is the key fill up the tube more and gives the terrier more of an advantage.obviously he has to be keen,the comparison is no locators many years ago so you looking for a very steady dog.having to dig 6 7 foot holes for it to move would be nightmare.even today.how many times have you come across a dog by accident not knowing its lines and it turned out to be a dinger.just my rant.

 

That is wrong wrong wrong.These are the shite dogs I was talking about. A good dog lets no badger pass and one hole is dug.Back then if you gave two or three hours locating dig six or seven feet and then the dog moves(HE DID NOT COME HOME)That was the way it was and should still be.

so your telling me a small type patt will keep a good size big fox,where ever he wants him,all he doing is annoying him an educated sham will wait then move before break in.now to call them shite dogs is a bit harsh just cause there a little too well fed,i seen certain man on here digging very fast to a dog of his one day.no leaving him too long in case of what still baffles me.the hole was top of the ground.liam your telling me you never and i mean never seen a so called class dog not let the big lad pass.they not robots.

 

Once he gets him in a stop end the good dog keeps him there(regardless of size)Whats your point about the man digging we have all seen them he has a shite dog and he knows it but does not want anybody else to know.Any class dog could have a bad day but if he made a habit of it his day would get worse FOR HIM. I dont understand the bit about the to well fed.

your words any class dog has a bad day,making habit of it we all know the ending there.im just saying these animals are just trying to get away from you.have you ever and i doubt it come across one that is coming to meet the dog at the entrance,i have and im telling you they put back the hardest or brainest dogs.that mans dog was very good in fairnest nothing shite about it,just waiting for it to settle didnt happen that day prob not relevant to you.being well fed big dogs is all i mentioned in my first post so for you to come the conclusion they were shite baffles me.being good and strong doesnt mean braindead just it makes it harder for stuff to get around them.holding them is bit easier too.we beg to differ.

 

You said if he really wanted to move he would .If he does he has a shite dog in front of him that is what i said and that was the basic principal of badger digging(BAdger keeps moveing dog cant hold him shite dog)On the well fed bit well fed wont make a bad badger dog in to a good one.Why do you doubt I ever seen a badger coming to meet a dog at the entrance( I have been sucking eggs a long time)I seen it many times I seen some dogs run away(The shite ones)I seen the good dogs beat him back in and show him who was in charge.I am not having a go at you Michael but this is the way things were for the boys who took digging and there dogs serious back then.On a slightly different note the guy who started this thread says a lot but at the same time says nothing I am suspecious of people who Talk The Talk.

[liamdelaney 2,587]

lads i think give respect to old billy the stuff of today or yesterday,if he wanted really to move he would.the size now of the dog is the key fill up the tube more and gives the terrier more of an advantage.obviously he has to be keen,the comparison is no locators many years ago so you looking for a very steady dog.having to dig 6 7 foot holes for it to move would be nightmare.even today.how many times have you come across a dog by accident not knowing its lines and it turned out to be a dinger.just my rant.

 

That is wrong wrong wrong.These are the shite dogs I was talking about. A good dog lets no badger pass and one hole is dug.Back then if you gave two or three hours locating dig six or seven feet and then the dog moves(HE DID NOT COME HOME)That was the way it was and should still be.

so your telling me a small type patt will keep a good size big fox,where ever he wants him,all he doing is annoying him an educated sham will wait then move before break in.now to call them shite dogs is a bit harsh just cause there a little too well fed,i seen certain man on here digging very fast to a dog of his one day.no leaving him too long in case of what still baffles me.the hole was top of the ground.liam your telling me you never and i mean never seen a so called class dog not let the big lad pass.they not robots.

 

Once he gets him in a stop end the good dog keeps him there(regardless of size)Whats your point about the man digging we have all seen them he has a shite dog and he knows it but does not want anybody else to know.Any class dog could have a bad day but if he made a habit of it his day would get worse FOR HIM. I dont understand the bit about the to well fed.

your words any class dog has a bad day,making habit of it we all know the ending there.im just saying these animals are just trying to get away from you.have you ever and i doubt it come across one that is coming to meet the dog at the entrance,i have and im telling you they put back the hardest or brainest dogs.that mans dog was very good in fairnest nothing shite about it,just waiting for it to settle didnt happen that day prob not relevant to you.being well fed big dogs is all i mentioned in my first post so for you to come the conclusion they were shite baffles me.being good and strong doesnt mean braindead just it makes it harder for stuff to get around them.holding them is bit easier too.we beg to differ.

 

You said if he really wanted to move he would .If he does he has a shite dog in front of him that is what i said and that was the basic principal of badger digging(BAdger keeps moveing dog cant hold him shite dog)On the well fed bit well fed wont make a bad badger dog in to a good one.Why do you doubt I ever seen a badger coming to meet a dog at the entrance( I have been sucking eggs a long time)I seen it many times I seen some dogs run away(The shite ones)I seen the good dogs beat him back in and show him who was in charge.I am not having a go at you Michael but this is the way things were for the boys who took digging and there dogs serious back then.On a slightly different note the guy who started this thread says a lot but at the same time says nothing I am suspecious of people who Talk The Talk.

["Earth!" 503]

would you say we have better quality because of the modern technology we have?

either way, a terrier is exspected to see the job through both today and in the past.

if anything, id say the majority saying we have better quality today because they look nicer and to 'some', looks sell and win rosettes/trophys, which in turn,adds more to the price of a stud or litter of pups. in the world of show enthusiasts, rarely do you hear of pups going free, unlike that of the working side..

 

the lines of old,the true lines are slowly vanishing due to outcrosses to produce a better looking terrier and due to wanting to create ones own lines.

[micheal rennicks 17]

WE LEAVE IT AT THAT IM GETTING FESD UP THIS SITE NOW,IT UNPRODUCTIVE.

[liamdelaney 2,587]

would you say we have better quality because of the modern technology we have?

either way, a terrier is exspected to see the job through both today and in the past.

if anything, id say the majority saying we have better quality today because they look nicer and to 'some', looks sell and win rosettes/trophys, which in turn,adds more to the price of a stud or litter of pups. in the world of show enthusiasts, rarely do you hear of pups going free, unlike that of the working side..

 

the lines of old,the true lines are slowly vanishing due to outcrosses to produce a better looking terrier and due to wanting to create ones own lines.

 

READ THE POSTS.How could we have better quality because of the technology when a dog is located in five minutes.

[hunt 30]

NO need to be suspicious mate I'm no anti I'll be at Kevin m s show please make yourself known if your there

[wirral countryman 2,110]

You make it sound like back in the day every dig lasted for hours.....................not true. Yes some could but what most forget is alot of the earths that can be worked these days because of locators, were swerved with a capital "S" back in the day also.

Ive already said that there was a lot of places a terrier could not be tried for obvious reasons..eg..too deep,but even the earths they did do a dog was longer in the ground than a dog with locater on.Not easy locate a terrier to ground in a 6ft hole without a collar and maybe it windy aswell,no matter how good a sounder it is.We were often a couple of hours before you would get even the slightest mark on a dog,then you had to try and pin point where it was coming from.The locater was a brilliant invention,and what no one has mentioned it has imo saved the lives of a lot of good dogs simply because you are able to dig to them in less time which could avoid a dog been smoothered or killed to ground.

 

Good post Fatman,I've dug without the locator and with,there is no comparison,the locator improved terrierwork beyond comprehension,there was no more guessing,listening at holes,bars,local knowledge of earths was a must before and losing good dogs happened regular,thats how and why the fell and moorland rescue became so big back in the day,I have dug to dogs for 2 days many times on a rescue and it is also the only times I have doubled up a dog ,collared up to find the first one,good terrier's will always be good no matter what age they're from the same as sh*te will always be sh*te,for me the locator is by far the best thing to ever happen in terrierwork and that is a fact,atb,wirralman

[Guest dee mac]

lads i think give respect to old billy the stuff of today or yesterday,if he wanted really to move he would.the size now of the dog is the key fill up the tube more and gives the terrier more of an advantage.obviously he has to be keen,the comparison is no locators many years ago so you looking for a very steady dog.having to dig 6 7 foot holes for it to move would be nightmare.even today.how many times have you come across a dog by accident not knowing its lines and it turned out to be a dinger.just my rant.

 

That is wrong wrong wrong.These are the shite dogs I was talking about. A good dog lets no badger pass and one hole is dug.Back then if you gave two or three hours locating dig six or seven feet and then the dog moves(HE DID NOT COME HOME)That was the way it was and should still be.

so your telling me a small type patt will keep a good size big fox,where ever he wants him,all he doing is annoying him an educated sham will wait then move before break in.now to call them shite dogs is a bit harsh just cause there a little too well fed,i seen certain man on here digging very fast to a dog of his one day.no leaving him too long in case of what still baffles me.the hole was top of the ground.liam your telling me you never and i mean never seen a so called class dog not let the big lad pass.they not robots.

exactly that mick prob of the mute hard reckless type that i mentioned that you d rather have out quick before the thing gets messy i think the man your thinking off also dug his young dog of 18 months 3 times in the one day and in several big places over a period of time too were there was no panic and everything was at a more pleasurable pace because the dog had a brain and did also drop one of his dogs in one of the biggest earths that you may know and dug a very nice fox and in your words THATS FIRST TIME I VE DUG THIS PLACE .

is that the one where ye lost or didnt have a pick.i personally dont want them out quick my view is the little bit of time will hopefully get them to bark more,as for that young dog your on to a good thing.more space in the van now for other stuff.less dogs to bring.

no the one that had no pick was nt nothing too do with him im afraid that was nt his dog as for space you need a few dogs too get plenty of digging but you can have an empty van if your mates have plenty of digging dogs and are happy too just do the digging. but your right in what your saying its time in the ground that makes them and nice too see the one s you breed come good it a nice old feeling eh mick

we all have to start somewhere you forget that as for the digging i love it,putting the spade into the ground no hangover with like minded people gives me great satifaction.up at 7 out for 8 full day nearly done at 12,lots of different spots with the mates top class dogs. .pups of my own to run on ya cant beat it.not have to listen to dung priceless.no messers dogs up to there game not 3 foot back,nice feeling ehh dee.

very true we all have too start somewhere and once you get that fist good one the bug really bites. i ve known your mates a long time and no they would nt be diging dogs three foot off there game mick they take it far too serious and put a lot of time effort and money into there dogs as do we so they expect there dogs to do the job properly. dung is nt priceless i clean a lot of it up every night and would give it out freely too anyone that wants it but then most people have enough of there own some even stock pile it from week too week. hopefully your young dogs come good for you and you can get that start made you mentioned before.as for the hangovers your right not nice digging with one but then again its nice too get out for a pint and bit of craic all work and no play would nt be my idea of whats its all about even the pioneers take themselve s out for a nights dancing now and again

[micheal rennicks 17]

WE COULD GO ON BUT WE'LL NOT BOTHER.

[Guest dee mac]

WE COULD GO ON BUT WE'LL NOT BOTHER.

indeed we could

[hunt 30]

this question was asked regarding terrier quality in passing the other week to a group of well respected terriermen and all of them stated the terriers of today are of better standard but a totaly different animal Earth you made a comment regarding shows spoiling terriers yes in some ways i agree but to a true working man a show is nothing but a chance to have the craic anyone who has decent dogs would need there heads testing to parade good workers for all to see and follow home

[hunt 30]

would you say we have better quality because of the modern technology we have?

either way, a terrier is exspected to see the job through both today and in the past.

if anything, id say the majority saying we have better quality today because they look nicer and to 'some', looks sell and win rosettes/trophys, which in turn,adds more to the price of a stud or litter of pups. in the world of show enthusiasts, rarely do you hear of pups going free, unlike that of the working side..

 

the lines of old,the true lines are slowly vanishing due to outcrosses to produce a better looking terrier and due to wanting to create ones own lines.

 

READ THE POSTS.How could we have better quality because of the technology when a dog is located in five minutes.

maybe so but to waste a full day on locating a dog and then digging him out equals one dog one dig th elocator now gives the chance for multiple digs in a day therefore the dogs are getting more game and in my eyes better tested the so called heroic old time digging men where nine times out of ten digging multiple dogs FACT

[tinytiger 854]

Without spoiling the post about an old guy I thought iwould start a fresh en what's your views regarding quality of terriers comparing today's and in the good old days me personally I think the modern terrier is a lot better animal I don't mean the shite the likes of nuttall is pumping out these days I mean the ones genuine digging men own please remember in the so called good old days they use to use multiple dogs I don't intend this thread to become a slanging match just an honest debate I know a lot o gear go s back to the old lines but I feel these lines have been betterd by like minded men

 

I think that even slight differences in the work that selects dogs as breeding material can have a huge impact on the breed-look at greyhounds-I think there is a big difference in temperment between dogs off american breeding bred for 8 dog races on an inside lure than the ones over here.Theres plenty dogs being dug to today that would have lasted only one dig in times gone by .I think the locater ands the patterdale terrier came around at just the right time for each other-i think its impossible to compare dogs of one genertation with an other.

[Guest busterdog]

Just my tuppenny worth, would you call a terrier that moved shite if when you finally got a mark and dug it and found that the tubes were two foot wide ?. IMO theres to many variables just to say anything that moves is shite, time working the dog over a season will tell you what you've got on the end of your lead (not one dig).

Perhaps your terrier moved because of the modern technology, as fatman says "it sometimes took two hours to find a mark", well IMO all the moving and toing and froing would have been and gone by then ?.

 

As for there being better looking animals now , i wouldn't say so, back when i started there was some outstanding stamps at most shows. Most shows i go to (four or five a year) i find it hard to see more than a handfull of tidy working "type".

 

Edited for the shit spelling

Edited August 3, 2011 by busterdog