Straight pasterns

[cmccmc 24]

Hi,

 

This is my first lurcher pup, 3/4 whippet and 1/4 bedlington, 8 weeks old in the picture. I've noticed that her pasterns are pretty upright, does anyone have experience running a dog who's very straight in the pastern? Hoping to run her on rabbits, night and day, and I'm just a bit worried she'll be more prone to wrist injuries. Cheers, here she is;

 

[HGN 150]

"pasterns are like shock absorbers if theres no give then the dog will get injuries - and lots of them"

[lurchergrrl 1,441]

I don't know a bloody thing about pasterns but that diddy little pup is so friggin' cute!

[skycat 6,173]

Yes, straight pasterns give a more jarring action to the front leg: they're like shock absorbers, and they should be at a slight angle to absorb the shock better. The straight pastern is often seen in terriers, who don't run like lurchers or sighthounds, more like pinging along on straight rods for legs Not trying to insult terriers, but they aren't bred to cover the ground like a sighthound, nor do they need to be so supple and agile.

 

My Border/Whippet has straight pasterns, but he's nearly 3 now, works like a demon every day out bushing, and has never had a moment's lameness in his life. Being little there is less weight to carry around which I guess helps a lot, but it's not ideal conformation nonetheless. One of our old lurchers has straight pasterns: he's like a wooden dog now, but was very fast in his youth. He's a bit arthritic now, though at 9 still goes out and runs and catches a few rabbits, so it hasn't affected him too much.

[Bosun11 537]

Yes, straight pasterns give a more jarring action to the front leg: they're like shock absorbers, and they should be at a slight angle to absorb the shock better. The straight pastern is often seen in terriers, who don't run like lurchers or sighthounds, more like pinging along on straight rods for legs Not trying to insult terriers, but they aren't bred to cover the ground like a sighthound, nor do they need to be so supple and agile.

 

My Border/Whippet has straight pasterns, but he's nearly 3 now, works like a demon every day out bushing, and has never had a moment's lameness in his life. Being little there is less weight to carry around which I guess helps a lot, but it's not ideal conformation nonetheless. One of our old lurchers has straight pasterns: he's like a wooden dog now, but was very fast in his youth. He's a bit arthritic now, though at 9 still goes out and runs and catches a few rabbits, so it hasn't affected him too much.

 

From what i've seen, the best examples of this case come from first cross terrier bred dogs BUT in both cases Skycat mentioned, one works like a demon and the other still catches at 9 (and i'll betcha that dog has had some graft!). What i'm trying to say is, please don't over-judge your pup! It is only a pup and you've got a long way to go yet, plenty of time to develope and change and there is far more important things to look out for along that way!

I've seen some of the most 'unlikely' lookers be the best of grafters, and yours has a long way to go yet!

Enjoy...!!!

[stevemac 441]

Well I hate to contradict others and it does go against what I have been taught about dogs front end construction but my 29" 38kg staghound has straight pasterns. hes 3yr old hunts every weekend and has never had a running injury.

[skycat 6,173]

Been thinking about this again: yes, I do think about things sometimes :laugh: and I've come up with this.

 

When people first started talking about the conformation of greyhounds, sighthounds etc they were basing their statements on horses: horses being the only other domesticated sport/hunting animal. This is not my own supposition, but gleaned from the writings of various books over the years. There is one book in particular which promotes the 45 degree shoulder blade theory, which is almost impossible to achieve in a dog, but perfectly correct in the horse.

 

More modern understanding reveals that the shoulder blades of the horse and the dog are quite different, maybe not in shape, but in the way they are attached to the body: the dog shoulder blade is capable of far great movement than that of the horse.

 

So, regarding sloping or upright pasterns: was this too based on the fact that horses should have sloping pasterns which absorb the shock better: you need better shock absorbers when the animal weighs up to half a ton!

 

AND do you see straighter pasterns in dogs which are distance runners rather than sprinters? I've seen quite a few Saluki types with relatively straight pasterns. Dogs which have been really tested in the field.

 

 

Mmmm: more thought needed on this one, but as the others have said: the pup is young, its early days and it will be a lightweight runner at that.

 

Another thought: is the straight pastern seen more in dogs with very laid back shoulder blades? Does this happen to compensate?

[stevemac 441]

Been thinking about this again: yes, I do think about things sometimes :laugh: and I've come up with this.

 

When people first started talking about the conformation of greyhounds, sighthounds etc they were basing their statements on horses: horses being the only other domesticated sport/hunting animal. This is not my own supposition, but gleaned from the writings of various books over the years. There is one book in particular which promotes the 45 degree shoulder blade theory, which is almost impossible to achieve in a dog, but perfectly correct in the horse.

 

More modern understanding reveals that the shoulder blades of the horse and the dog are quite different, maybe not in shape, but in the way they are attached to the body: the dog shoulder blade is capable of far great movement than that of the horse.

 

So, regarding sloping or upright pasterns: was this too based on the fact that horses should have sloping pasterns which absorb the shock better: you need better shock absorbers when the animal weighs up to half a ton!

 

AND do you see straighter pasterns in dogs which are distance runners rather than sprinters? I've seen quite a few Saluki types with relatively straight pasterns. Dogs which have been really tested in the field.

 

 

Mmmm: more thought needed on this one, but as the others have said: the pup is young, its early days and it will be a lightweight runner at that.

 

Another thought: is the straight pastern seen more in dogs with very laid back shoulder blades? Does this happen to compensate?

 

Skycat its very interesting to watch a slow motion film of a greyhound at double suspenision gallop and note how far forward of the shoulder the foot hits the ground and the angle of the pastern as the dogs body travels over the foot. I like your analegy of the angled pastern comming from the horse a sporting animal with a ridged spine.

[cmccmc 24]

Thanks for the replies guys, really interesting stuff! And yup, she's a tiny wee thing at the moment and has a long way to go, I'm just a worrier . She's retrieving her toys well at the moment, and last night we tried her with a rabbit foot in the kitchen and she retrieved it really nicely too. She's also getting used to chickens and the house cat, just waiting on her last jab so we can head over to the cousin's farm and work around sheep/cattle.

 

I've grown up with beagles and foxhounds and have definitely seen hounds with huge conformation 'faults' perform well in the field without injury. Skycat, you might find this quote interesting

 

Do you notice any problems with upright pasterns?

 

No. A Saluki who stands with its pasterns bent at a slight angle looks racy, but it's just standing there. When the feet hit the ground while the dog is running, even if the pastern is straight or knuckled over, the pastern is going to be bent down to the ground because the leg is going to hit at an angle. If you've seen photos or slow-motion movies of sighthounds running, you'll have noticed that the stop pads go right to the ground. So, the way the dog stands doesn't mean a whole lot functionally at a gallop. It does at a trot. If the dog is trotting, but not reaching very far when it sets its feet down, being knuckled over might cause a little more jarring and if you're riding on the dog you won't get a very smooth ride. I've seen knuckled-over dogs who were very good runners.

 

From "The Functional Saluki - lessons learned from the coursing field" http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/belkin.htm

 

Edit; also, I've always heard that upright pasterns are associated with a short upper arm - no idea if that's accurate though!

Edited July 11, 2011 by cmccmc

[skycat 6,173]

I've actually got that article saved on my computer, but had forgotten it was there: a very good article indeed and obviously written by someone who actually knows what they're on about.

[bullmastiff 615]

Tess had very straight pasterns when she was young but as she grew and put on more weight they've now settled into a more normal angle. I'm sure as your pup puts more weight on they'll flex a bit more.