Guest born to run1083 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I would not recommend electrolytes to be given all of the time. Only when you know you are going out for some hard graft, long day/nights. Electrolytes will not prevent a dogs body from doing anything, it's like saying if you take multi vitamins your body wont be able to absorb any from food All you are doing is giving the dogs body a helping hand, so it is not having to work as hard internally as it is externally when hunting You have all sorts of things happening when you are dehydrated including... Increased heart rate Increased respiration Increased body temperature Extreme fatigue Muscle cramps This is all wear and tear on the internal organs that a dog would not normally have (a wild animal would not go and run 40+ rabbits a night would they, so the work they do is really not normal for them) It can be up to 3 hrs after my dog has finished working before he gets his food, i want to try to make sure my dogs get as much help as possible to do their very best when working, and to try to ensure i have a long working life with them...not just the first 2-3yrs Yeah I know what your saying just to much electrolytes in the body is a bad thing to Electrolytes are minerals in your body that have an electric charge. They are in your blood, urine and body fluids. Maintaining the RIGHT balance of electrolytes helps your body's blood chemistry, muscle action and other processes. Sodium, calcium, potassium, chlorine, phosphate and magnesium are all electrolytes. You get them from the foods you eat and the fluids you drink. I was always told because of this giving them it when the dog dont really require it was bad for them. Think it's great for dogs that need it as it does revive dogs but using it every hard night when don't need it. Could be a bad thing especially if give to much. I might be talking woffle be good for the genius skycat to enlighten lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 But they do need it when working hard, that is why they are given it. If you wait till the dog needs them to revive them then the damage has already been done A body will naturally pass any unused/unneeded minerals. In order to overdose a dog, you would have to give a hell of an amount over a very long time. Follow the instructions on the bottle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blue one 89 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 But they do need it when working hard, that is why they are given it. If you wait till the dog needs them to revive them then the damage has already been done A body will naturally pass any unused/unneeded minerals. In order to overdose a dog, you would have to give a hell of an amount over a very long time. Follow the instructions on the bottle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Dehydration is a lack of fluid not a lack of electrolyte. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Dehydration is a lack of fluid not a lack of electrolyte. Dehydration can be either a loss of fluid, a loss of electrolyte or a combination of both Sandy. Combination of both is the usual cause of dehydration 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Electrolytes ( salts) are a complicated issue, theses salts are needed by the body and in normal circumstances are gained through the diet in adequate amounts. In some circumstance losses through things like diarrhoea, vomiting etc may lead to levels dropping in the short term to the extent that additional replacement would be required. There is an additional need for sodium chloride, table salt (Na), in very athletic humans and horses as they loss it through sweating. Dogs don’t lose large amounts as they don’t sweat to anything like that extent. To much will famously increased blood pressure, cause muscle spasm and heart rhythm abnormalities amongst other problems. Studies in very high energy sporting dogs suggest that replenishment is not required. I used these products in the ’s and swore by them, at the time we used a horse formulation as it was what was available at the time. I trained greyhounds and didn’t know anything about the biochemistry involved, people said it was good so I used it, these days I know a little more and realise that the formulation we used was not going to help, it was designed to replace the Na that the horse lost through sweat, it was basically table salt in water lol belief is a powerful thing. Modern canine formulations contain more potassium chloride than the old but its still just salt. I note with interest that these modern versions contain glucose and perhaps we have the answer to people noting that their dogs pick up after it’s administered. Perhaps a little flat Lucosade would be a cheaper alternative; at least it wouldn’t bring the risk of unbalancing the natural electrolyte levels so actually causing dehydration and won’t increase heart strain by increasing blood pressure etc. I’ve emailed the Australian makers of one product asking for their research and will pass on the reply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Dehydration is a lack of fluid not a lack of electrolyte. Dehydration can be either a loss of fluid, a loss of electrolyte or a combination of both Sandy. Combination of both is the usual cause of dehydration Dehydration is a loss of water, low sodium is hyponatraemia, low potassium is hypokalaemia, etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 So you are saying using the correct levels of electrolyte replacement designed for dogs would actually do more harm then good? And lucozade full of additives and preservatives would be better because it is cheaper. Did the studies on sporting dogs contain dogs like lurchers, who may be working for a long length of time. Not just greyhounds who are sprinters, in a one off race. And not including the husky types who are bred for endurance. As i said before, most dogs are not really evolved to continuously hunt and hunt and hunt as we make them do. They would probably catch then eat or miss and look around for more prey for a good while before another run. When we go lamping we are running the dogs, they return, a few seconds later they are run again, they return and so on and so forth. Be interesting to read any results you get, although if it is the manufacturers own results they may be biased towards the product. Loss of water = hypernatremic Loss of Electrolytes/sodium = hyponatremic Loss of water and electrolytes = isonatremic All covered by the broad term = dehydration 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boyo 1,398 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 dont know all the ins and outs of it or exactly how it works but i do know that it certainly helps them recover after hard run or excercise. always gave it to my greyhounds and my coursing dogs and always carrt a small bottle when out for a long day with the dogs recharge is as good as any but probally the most expensive. whay i do notice is theie pee is a lot darker when giving it . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boyo 1,398 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 ps gotta learn to check before posting lol.re above post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Man 196 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 got some recharge. just a warning got told by some decent coursing lads that liquid life aid (stuff for sheep and cattle) is very bad for lurchers can kill them eventually apparently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boss-Hog 284 Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 dogs can survive on electrolytes[not water alone thats fact ] duphalite oral or injectable,including in iv bag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 “So you are saying using the correct levels of electrolyte replacement designed for dogs would actually do more harm then good?” (Moll) Quiet possibly yes, if the dog already has the correct levels then just as adding to much salt to your own diet causing high blood pressure adding to much salt to the dogs diet will not be helping. There are occasions when there needs to be replacement but not as a norm. “And lucozade full of additives and preservatives would be better because it is cheaper.” (Moll) ((please I expect better than straw men from you) No I didn’t say it was better because it was cheaper, but because it would not increase salt intake but still give a glucose boost, as for preservative, it was a name picked out of the air as an example. What the most common one; ah salt.. “Did the studies on sporting dogs contain dogs like lurchers, who may be working for a long length of time. Not just greyhounds who are sprinters, in a one off race. And not including the husky types who are bred for endurance.” Marathon huskies are worked beyond any other dog and if they don’t need electrolyte replacement.? We replace salt and water whilst competing to make up for sweat but dogs? Is it a matter of mistaking overheating, fatigue, low glucose etc and blaming magically dropping electrolytes? The main question that needs to be considered is where are the dogs losing electrolyte from? There is a small loss through normal body function but this should be more than made up from a normal diet. “Be interesting to read any results you get, although if it is the manufacturers own results they may be biased towards the product.”(Moll). I agree but I’ve asked for clinical evidence such as before and after blood results, as I look at blood results daily, evaluating electrolye balences etc I may be able to spot any Bull*hit. If they were really available I’m sure they would already be part of their advertising, as they are not I still await with interest. “Loss of water = hypernatremic Loss of Electrolytes/sodium = hyponatremic Loss of water and electrolytes = isonatremic All covered by the broad term = dehydration ” (Moll) It’s getting a little nit picking but again there is a difference between dehydration and low or high electrolytes. (I prefer the British spelling hyponatraemia ) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 dogs can survive on electrolytes[not water alone thats fact ] duphalite oral or injectable,including in iv bag This may answer but if not some clarification of the above may hel. IV fluids do commonly contain sodium and sometimes potassium to match the blood and it requirements, we all come from sea creatures and our blood is a link in that it is basically the same as sea water with added extras but drinking sea water will cause death in spite of its semblance to blood. So a chemical may be appropriate to give IV but dangerous if taken orally and visa versa. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moll. 1,770 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Your missing my point Sandy. We expect lurchers to do more than is the norm for a dog a great deal more. Lurchers are not marathon huskies hence my asking if lurchers were included in the study. The glucose boost will come from recharge, as well as the others such as sodium/salt. I do not believe for one moment that 5ml of recharge mixed with water will give a dog (after extreme exercise) problems because of too much salt intake. No straw men Sandy it was you who said lucozade and that it was a cheaper alternative Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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