Deleted due to lack of interest

[Cleanspade 3,324]

in undiggable places you need a terrier that will kill the fox, and get itself back out, no point in terrier baying away when your not going to get to it,it would be the owner that failed not the dog when the dog walked out,no dog can be expected to stay forever if you cant get to it,i would say a hard terrier for fox is easier dog to get than a good digging dog that needs to stay till you can get to it,it takes a lot of work to build a dogs confidence and turn it into a good dog and knolage of using the right dog in the right place helps the dog,anybody could make a dog from any line jack ,its often people to blame not dogs.

 

How do you know the dog has killed it maybe the dog has come off it quarry and as you say you cant dig to it to find out or do you just say its killed it because he's a hard dog.

 

wwireviz of this site had a dog that would kill every fox it could get to. bar none. it took us a season to figure out what was going on as the dog rarely got badly damaged in its first few seasons we thought the dog was walking off. but after a few digs down to dead foxes it soon became obvious the dog had a knack for throttling them. he wwas a bayer. he just fenced with em waited his time then...bang. locked on with a throat hold. that dog done a fair few foxes and i can count on one hand the times he went to ground and never finished his fox. he was a fox only dog. and wait for it could be shouted out pretty regular was he wank.

[MOO 730]

useing the same yardstick to measure two totally different types of worker.

Lancer no man who thought anything of his tyke whether it be hard ,a sounder ,call out or purple with yellow spots would enter there dog in a spot considered undiggable and for you to say a hard terrier should be used in theses conditions to kill its quarry then come out well lad your just speaking nonsence .

Clean spade Im not useing a yard stick to measure two differant ttypes if you look through some of my post s I will always say differant terriers for differant situations I have terriers that are totaly differant types but get more or less the same end result ....but when it comes to breeding from dogs that walk off (not called off)then you will produce wankers ..........like I have said a 10 minute wonder is a handy tool that will be a failed digging dog surely no one should be breeding 10 minute wonders to produce 10 minute wonders .....W e all have differant ideas when it comes to breeding terriers and what type we should breed from but my views on this cannot be discussed on thl

I see what your saying moo and i'm inclined to agree.

Just one quick question, how you getting on with the white bitch from Gloucestershire?

As far as getting on with the bitch I like her and always have .....she saw plenty behind the spade and always wants it ...twice she never found that I considered easy spots but when you have hounds held back you cannot mess about or rely on youngsters so the old faithfulls were pulled out of the box..... everything that was put to ground last season were in rangey and deep places even digs I had with out the hounds were not suitable for a youngster so she never realy got a chance.

Had a certain portly gentleman thats friends with posh spice and the cockney choco breeder ..up here a fortnight ago she was enetered into an easy spot and left to work her quarry for 30 mins .

Hopefully she will come on and get used more this season

[lancer 13]

thats fell terriers f****d for working in the fells then,mcalpines couldnt dig places terriers get put in every season,years of knolage of whats safe for terriers off generations of terriermen and locals ,all thats needed is a terrier suited for whatever your doing,same with quarrys and mines some you can some you cant.

[lancer 13]

seems like a lot of people have lakelands that couldent work in lakeland,something wrong there with the standard of lakeland terrier,good job terrier owners dont breed race horses.

[fat man 4,741]

P3D how can you call people that keep bullx terriers SIMPLEMINDED.How do you know they are so easy to enter if you dont use them.I have a straight staffxpatt and he is a very good diging dog.He is fine around stock,dogs,and people and is ran with the rest of the dogs loose when exercising.He is smaller than any of the black dogs i have and about 16lb in weight.People have a habit of slating the bullx's but they should not until they've tried them and seen first hand how they work.There is shite in every breed as you well know,and you a man that is trying to work borders should know that,and by the way one of the hardest dogs i ever dug to was a border,pure mute.No offence to you p3d and i wish you all the best with the borders,fair play to you for trying to revive a very good breed of diging dog but dont slate the bullx's until you've tried them.YIS.FM.

[MOO 730]

thats fell terriers f****d for working in the fells then,mcalpines couldnt dig places terriers get put in every season,years of knolage of whats safe for terriers off generations of terriermen and locals ,all thats needed is a terrier suited for whatever your doing,same with quarrys and mines some you can some you cant.

So lancer if you rocked up to a spot that you considered undiggable you would enter a hard type of terrier ?....

I would walk away and have done on several occasions but then I dont have the type of dog I would consider dropping into one of these places and I have and had terriers I would call hard

[brog 670]

thats fell terriers f****d for working in the fells then,mcalpines couldnt dig places terriers get put in every season,years of knolage of whats safe for terriers off generations of terriermen and locals ,all thats needed is a terrier suited for whatever your doing,same with quarrys and mines some you can some you cant.

So lancer if you rocked up to a spot that you considered undiggable you would enter a hard type of terrier ?....

I would walk away and have done on several occasions but then I dont have the type of dog I would consider dropping into one of these places and I have and had terriers I would call hard

 

i would stick a bayer with a stanley knife stuck to its left paw..........works every time

[lancer 13]

it would be pointles putting a bayer in a crack in a cragg knowing theres no chance of a bolt,some people would call the terrier a jacker for comeing out when really the owners at fault for using the wrong dog,moo would you not enter a terrier into a plce undiggable but known as a safe place to use a terrier.

[MOO 730]

I asked you the question would your choice of terrier be a hard type in a spot you would consider undiggable ???????????

if so why

[lancer 13]

a terrier would be entered to kill a fox in an undiggable place

[Cleanspade 3,324]

a handy little baying dog woud be my choice. one that will shout out. then i.d have the fox when it showed

[fat man 4,741]

a handy little baying dog woud be my choice. one that will shout out. then i.d have the fox when it showed

If it showed,they dont always.

[Cleanspade 3,324]

a handy little baying dog woud be my choice. one that will shout out. then i.d have the fox when it showed

If it showed,they dont always.

 

thats true. but a good percentage do. if you know how to go about it in a quiet way. i would then give it best. there's allways another day.

[p3d 879]

P3D how can you call people that keep bullx terriers SIMPLEMINDED.How do you know they are so easy to enter if you dont use them.I have a straight staffxpatt and he is a very good diging dog.He is fine around stock,dogs,and people and is ran with the rest of the dogs loose when exercising.He is smaller than any of the black dogs i have and about 16lb in weight.People have a habit of slating the bullx's but they should not until they've tried them and seen first hand how they work.There is shite in every breed as you well know,and you a man that is trying to work borders should know that,and by the way one of the hardest dogs i ever dug to was a border,pure mute.No offence to you p3d and i wish you all the best with the borders,fair play to you for trying to revive a very good breed of diging dog but dont slate the bullx's until you've tried them.YIS.FM.

 

OK FM,

I worked and have seen BullX's in the past myself, great dog if you got a good one, like most types.

I was trying to highlight the 2 extremes.

One extreme only believe in Hard dogs, and the other extreme have sporting terriers.

In the middle as Cleanspade said, there is a grey area. Every terrierman has his own methods,his likes and dislikes.

Both extremes are like born again christians, if you don't go along with what they believe in, you are dammed.

They leave very little room for what I believe are the majority in the middle.

 

An example from my own past, a Staff/ Russell cross, would dig anything with him, great dog in every way I could want.

But one flaw. He would only stay below for 2 hours max. I dug two seasons with him and he never let me down.

But the guys I dug with where watching him and suspected a kink that I did not see. I was young and he was my first good dog.

One day we entered him in a single hole earth, unusual in that it was on flat ground with no cover, near a stream. It must have been a subsidiary earth.

The lads said we would just stay back for a while. This was not our method, We normally dug straight down and moved onto the next earth.

After about 2 hours the dog appeared at the entrance, saw us sitting there and shot back in. We dug to him in about 15 minutes.

What I had not seen in the 2 seasons that we were using him was that all the earths were around the 3 foot mark, we dug down to the quarry quickly.

Now I am guessing that to one extreme this dog is a waster, dig a hole and a piece of lead to the back of the ear.

But to me in the grey area in the middle, he was a valuable member of our pack. A lot of game was in the bag because of him.

Was he the best dog in Ireland, of course not. Should you breed from him, of course not.

But should he be p.t.s., not in my view.

 

There are a lot of dogs with various attributes that suit different blokes methods and packs.

There needs to be room for all types of terriers. IMO.

[MOO 730]

a terrier would be entered to kill a fox in an undiggable place

that is where we differ I would never consider entering a hard terrier in what would be considered a n undiggable spot....when you have hard terriers I wish it was as simple as enter hard terrier ...hard terrier kills fox ....then hard terrier comes out and we all live happily ever after ....but I can assure you its not.... even in spots that are diggable

Edited July 21, 2011 by MOO