breeding from a failure

[hedz31 1,308]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

A decent post smicker and very honest i like to see what the older fellas have to say and respect there opinions

[smicker 96]

What if a dog is say 5..6 year old and has never made a mistake and you breed a litter from him to your best bitch,then when the pups are born a well on say 6 months this same dog comes of its quarry for the first time,you try it again and it does the same,what do you do with the litter you bred of this dog.Do you run them on for another 8..10 months till there ready to start or do you get shut of them straight away.

If the pups are line/inbred in my opinion the blood will always pull through,especially at that age,maybe they wont make the grade who knows,but youve a much better chance than a scatter breed of dog and id have faith rearing them and putting in my time and effort to enter them.

[Guest busterdog]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

 

That's the best answer I've seen on here in a long time, there speaketh a man who's done some digging lol.

[fidodido 30]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

:thumbs:

[francolin 449]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

A decent post smicker and very honest i like to see what the older fellas have to say and respect there opinions

smicker very good read that,and very true half the battle is knowing your dog and been able to read it, also agree some game can be more of a handfull when they get worked /dug regular ,been dogged befor ect.

[francolin 449]

with reguards to breeding from a dog with faults smicker ,show me a man who has a dog with no faults ,theres always room for improvment in any bodys stock,if there completly honest,i have a bitch here 14 year old ,bred 3 litters from her to keep the stuff going for lads i trust,got a list i could change about her but wish i had 6 like her to dig to when she was younger,dont keep terriers now me and her both out the game

[hedz31 1,308]

with reguards to breeding from a dog with faults smicker ,show me a man who has a dog with no faults ,theres always room for improvment in any bodys stock,if there completly honest,i have a bitch here 14 year old ,bred 3 litters from her to keep the stuff going for lads i trust,got a list i could change about her but wish i had 6 like her to dig to when she was younger,dont keep terriers now me and her both out the game

Different folks have different opinions on whats a fault and failure though fella and ye have to respect alot of folks have different opinions and its good to get different opinions and views my dogs may have what to me are faults but to another man there a failure and vice versa some folks let faults and failures slide and some dont it doenst mean either man is better its simply a post to get folks thoughts and views on the matter and so far there has been some decent posts for a change

[micheal rennicks 17]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

 

That's the best answer I've seen on here in a long time, there speaketh a man who's done some digging lol.

totally agree well said my good man........

[francolin 449]

with reguards to breeding from a dog with faults smicker ,show me a man who has a dog with no faults ,theres always room for improvment in any bodys stock,if there completly honest,i have a bitch here 14 year old ,bred 3 litters from her to keep the stuff going for lads i trust,got a list i could change about her but wish i had 6 like her to dig to when she was younger,dont keep terriers now me and her both out the game

Different folks have different opinions on whats a fault and failure though fella and ye have to respect alot of folks have different opinions and its good to get different opinions and views my dogs may have what to me are faults but to another man there a failure and vice versa some folks let faults and failures slide and some dont it doenst mean either man is better its simply a post to get folks thoughts and views on the matter and so far there has been some decent posts for a change

totally agree with your veiw on fault and failure,at the end of day if a mans happy with his dog and it does the job as he requires thats all that counts ,my own could make a man look bad,nervy around the kennel,aproach on there belly,the old un would not tolerate strange dogs too well,the pups were highly strung barkers if not kept in check,and till entered would bite any poor sod holding them near a dig the list goes on , to me these are faults,but i bred them tight and put up with the scattyness to produce the goods work wise ,reports are still good from lads working em but in kennel there mad as hatters

[am back 31]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

there is no dog on the planet,past or present that could go out regular upto the age of 8 as your talking about and not come across a load of things that have been dug before.when they know your getting close and theyve been dug before its a fail because even the best out there aint stopping it.to say they can is bull and stupid.every dig is different ,a good dog will dig most .but even they cant do everywhere all the time for loads of different reasons.failed is a stupid word to describe a wee dog that gives its all if youve seen the best you know the only thing they want is a result.for them not to be able to get to it ,you can tell theyre wound up.as ive said there is times they just cant get to it AND THAT IS DEFINETLY NOT A FAIL AS YOU CALL IT.

[hedz31 1,308]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

there is no dog on the planet,past or present that could go out regular upto the age of 8 as your talking about and not come across a load of things that have been dug before.when they know your getting close and theyve been dug before its a fail because even the best out there aint stopping it.to say they can is bull and stupid.every dig is different ,a good dog will dig most .but even they cant do everywhere all the time for loads of different reasons.failed is a stupid word to describe a wee dog that gives its all if youve seen the best you know the only thing they want is a result.for them not to be able to get to it ,you can tell theyre wound up.as ive said there is times they just cant get to it AND THAT IS DEFINETLY NOT A FAIL AS YOU CALL IT.

I never called it a fail i said i would have to look at the exuations in the matter and the dog would of had to have tried its goddam best and not gone half hearted about it ye can tell when a dog wants to and when its half hearted if ye know your dogs read back whats written

[wag 13]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

 

 

quality reply that smicker

[Alli 923]

My mate bought a 18 month old Middleton dog after it walked on a dig after 6hrs in August when it was red hot. The lad was gonna shoot it but my mate took it on. The dog was pts early last year at 12yrs old & never ever let us down in 10yrs, with his best dig being 8hrs in a rocky earth that pushed the dog. I used to borrow this dog & worked him more than his owner. Showed alot of other dogs up. If he could get to a fox it was dead, the only time he didn't was his final dig to a little vixen in tight which ended his career by removing his armoury. Tried til the end this dog. He regularly dug educated game & in 10yrs he secured more digs mid tube than in hole ends. Once he had hold it was game over. He was put to a couple of Middleton bitches but produced shit, he was used over a Park bred bitch & the litter produced 3 early starters that made the grade. I'd be willing to give a dog a chance depending on the circumstances but sometimes lads have to stop making excuses for their dogs no matter how well bred they are

[666bull 3]

tts sum of the most truthful words iv heard on here [bANNED TEXT].i very much agree with u there.iv seen sum of the hardest terriers around.pitt x patt. staff x patt all breeds will fail if the owner gives em to much no matter wat anybody sez.fact.

[lonedigga 22]

Just a thought but these dogs that NEVER fail,How much work do they actually see?I can only think of 1 dog that i saw work through his entire career that never failed and he was only good for 8-10 digs a season and died to ground in his 3rd season.On the other hand i had a dog here that saw between 30 and 40 digs a season that worked for 8 seasons..BUT probably failed about 6 times in that period,I'm as sure that i can be that the dog never walked off his quarry in a stopend and the times he failed were all in a runaround situation that lasted several hours.On many occasions he got a result where other dogs had failed,But never was a dog put in after him that showed him up..Did i breed off him? Too f****n right i did and everything i now kennel he's the father or grandfather of...jmo.. ps imo if you put a dog in wheres there's quarry present and don't get a result for whatever reason then the dog has FAILED,Which is a world away from the dog QUITTING..Not looking for an argument but just giving my thoughts on the subject..