breeding from a failure

[CorkyJohn 808]

My mate bought a 18 month old Middleton dog after it walked on a dig after 6hrs in August when it was red hot. The lad was gonna shoot it but my mate took it on. The dog was pts early last year at 12yrs old & never ever let us down in 10yrs, with his best dig being 8hrs in a rocky earth that pushed the dog. I used to borrow this dog & worked him more than his owner. Showed alot of other dogs up. If he could get to a fox it was dead, the only time he didn't was his final dig to a little vixen in tight which ended his career by removing his armoury. Tried til the end this dog. He regularly dug educated game & in 10yrs he secured more digs mid tube than in hole ends. Once he had hold it was game over. He was put to a couple of Middleton bitches but produced shit, he was used over a Park bred bitch & the litter produced 3 early starters that made the grade. I'd be willing to give a dog a chance depending on the circumstances but sometimes lads have to stop making excuses for their dogs no matter how well bred they are

[fidodido 30]

My mate bought a 18 month old Middleton dog after it walked on a dig after 6hrs in August when it was red hot. The lad was gonna shoot it but my mate took it on. The dog was pts early last year at 12yrs old & never ever let us down in 10yrs, with his best dig being 8hrs in a rocky earth that pushed the dog. I used to borrow this dog & worked him more than his owner. Showed alot of other dogs up. If he could get to a fox it was dead, the only time he didn't was his final dig to a little vixen in tight which ended his career by removing his armoury. Tried til the end this dog. He regularly dug educated game & in 10yrs he secured more digs mid tube than in hole ends. Once he had hold it was game over. He was put to a couple of Middleton bitches but produced shit, he was used over a Park bred bitch & the litter produced 3 early starters that made the grade. I'd be willing to give a dog a chance depending on the circumstances but sometimes lads have to stop making excuses for their dogs no matter how well bred they are

[WILF 46,688]

Not really on topic, but what you keep depends on if you want a digging dog or a dog you can have a dig with.....theres a world of differance IMHO.

 

Mine is the latter and thats fine for me....my rule to myself now is, I never make a judgement in the heat of the moment (I nearly have done before), I would take the dog home and have a good considered think about what went wrong before I did anything drastic.

 

When it comes to breeding, then I reckon breed for yourself if you like what you have, give the remainder to trusted friends who you know wont bullshit and that you trust to make the best judgement on the animal you have given them.

 

If its rubbish, then they will tell you so and do whats right....theres no offence between right lads IMHO

[Guest eastmids]

i wouldnt hold it against anyone breeding from a failure under certain circustances and take what most say on here with loads of salt..

i havent had a litter since when i first started out with the digging, these days im left with one old dog id love something out of and a well bred bitch about 4 years old which if im honest is still a usable bitch but failed in spots i like to dig...and for that i have to take some responsibility..i asked a bit much of her early on .

i also dug to her littermate a dog..a number of times and was happy with him

she came in season a few weeks back and i let it pass... theres a couple of litters on the ground/ expected i have my name on but should neither materialize for what what ever reason.

i,ll be putting that old dog over that bitch and not giveing a f**k what anyone on the internet says

[fat man 4,741]

What if a dog is say 5..6 year old and has never made a mistake and you breed a litter from him to your best bitch,then when the pups are born a well on say 6 months this same dog comes of its quarry for the first time,you try it again and it does the same,what do you do with the litter you bred of this dog.Do you run them on for another 8..10 months till there ready to start or do you get shut of them straight away.

[CorkyJohn 808]

i wouldnt hold it against anyone breeding from a failure under certain circustances and take what most say on here with loads of salt..

i havent had a litter since when i first started out with the digging, these days im left with one old dog id love something out of and a well bred bitch about 4 years old which if im honest is still a usable bitch but failed in spots i like to dig...and for that i have to take some responsibility..i asked big of her early on .

i also dug to her littermate a dog..a number of times and was happy with him

she came in season a few weeks back and i let it pass... theres a couple of litters on the ground/ expected i have my name on but should neither materialize for what what ever reason.

i,ll be putting that old dog over that bitch and not giveing a f**k what anyone on the internet says

Thats fair enough to me but I think the problem lies in selling pups instead of placing/culling & not being honest with the buyers. They're your dogs & you know what you've got & so do your mates who see the dogs work. Just for an example if I was taking a chance on buying a pup & you told me the dam hadn't let you down when she had ......then that would make you no better than any other peddler. I'm not insinuating you would though mate as I dont know you

[FightTheBan 1,147]

Listen sugartits there aint a dog alive that won't fail given enough pressure.

It is 100 percent at the owners discression whether he allows it to hapen or not.

 

If you believe otherwise you have the worst case of black dog syndrome I have seen.

 

Yo may fool the plebs on here but some of us have a brain in our head.

 

Please don't hold a grudge against me and troll about looking for me. Could do without the aggro and have bigger concerns.

 

Over and out.

 

FTB

[gonetoearth 5,144]

there are people who own terriers then there are terrier men ,

[hedz31 1,308]

Listen sugartits there aint a dog alive that won't fail given enough pressure.

It is 100 percent at the owners discression whether he allows it to hapen or not.

 

If you believe otherwise you have the worst case of black dog syndrome I have seen.

 

Yo may fool the plebs on here but some of us have a brain in our head.

 

Please don't hold a grudge against me and troll about looking for me. Could do without the aggro and have bigger concerns.

 

Over and out.

 

FTB

what has that got to do with breeding of a failure ye tit and where did i say ye couldnt jack anything with fur i know dam fine well ye can ive jacked enough and what the feck black dog syndrome my dogs aint what i would call super hard as a rule so dont try that angle ye have been given enough chances to come and show me and prove me a liar and ye have jacked everytime man up or shut up ye messer

[hedz31 1,308]

What if a dog is say 5..6 year old and has never made a mistake and you breed a litter from him to your best bitch,then when the pups are born a well on say 6 months this same dog comes of its quarry for the first time,you try it again and it does the same,what do you do with the litter you bred of this dog.Do you run them on for another 8..10 months till there ready to start or do you get shut of them straight away.

Thats a decent post and it has happened to me on 2 occasions and the bitches were as ye say 5 and 6 and no i didnt get shut of them i gave them the chance roughly half of each litter failed 1 or 2 badly but they were given the chance and were tried and entered the same as any other litter, i might add both litters were of the same sire who was at the time 12 with 1 litter and 14 with the other and was retired and in my eyes never failed may i also add that both bitchs were in my eyes of a decent breeding age and had proved themselves worthy in my eyes of breeding of if they had failed before a litter would not of been took which to me is the decent thing

[Guest eastmids]

Thats fair enough to me but I think the problem lies in selling pups instead of placing/culling & not being honest with the buyers.

i know what you mean,i had two pups from a lad on here years back and got rid at 16 weeks old i thinks its the reason a lot of lads take a chance on what they already have even if its not the ideal thing to do..unless you have great insight into what else is on offer. what else do you do.

[smicker 96]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

[hedz31 1,308]

there are people who own terriers then there are terrier men ,

There is also men that buy terriers in and fail then think a terrier that has not failed does not exsist because they have never owned 1,if they keep buying them eventualy they will get 1 though just how much are they willing to spend

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Right due to the argumentative topic that most have proberly read, i would like to try and get some honest views on what folks keep in there kennels and what they have bred from,do folks out there think that it is possible to have a terrier never fail, i am finding it really hard to belive that everybody on here has never had a terrier not fail if so honestly how many of ye have bred from dogs that have failed ?? surely if its impossible like some folk like to think that would mean every current terrier in the uk is bred out of stock that has somewhere in its career failed ,surely if a young terrier is entered correctly and built up to a decent working animal by the age of 3 or 4 then worked hard for another few years without a failure is possible,i aint talking dropping a 1 or 2 season dog in a well known hard place and expecting miracles then culling the bugger when it fails either which i am sure folks think thats what i do,so honestly how many folks out there have bred from terriers that have failed and have faults ??

Hedz31 this should be an intresting topic and imo the usual folk think they are dictaters or dog gods probably wont reply! Have i bred from dogs with faults,of course i have,but ive used my outcross dog that is known for the traits im looking to correct,be it brains,nose,steadiness whatever it may be. One of the best dogs ive dug to over 8 hard seasons graft was lifted on more than one occasion after failing to bottle up quarry,i dont mean after an hour it was more 4 hours of constant round and round,the dog showed and was lifted before flying back to ground,that was a failed dig in my opinion,but 5 days later was dug again in fine style,the dog was bred off and has produced some outstanding dogs that are still going strong today and have themselves produced some great young dogs that are doing well. It isnt kennel blindness,its selevtive breeding and good stock management,we all should know what a spewer is,but the odd failure of a dig at an earth shouldnt be condemed,they are dogs NOT machines,any asshole can spew a dog,no matter how great the dog,theres no medals for abuse. Not every dig is the same and neither is the quarry,some sit and behave and others want to do battle then you have them that have seen a dog or 2 over the years,cubs also can make a dog look silly or as if they have failed. You just have to learn to trust your dog and try and understand whats going on under the sod,you arnt there and you dont know,but if you know your dog and his working style you have some insight as to whats going on down there. Im sure many dogs have been shifted on due to the saying the dog has spewed........BUT ITS THE OWNER THATS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THE DOG!

terrier man

[alan626 305]

What if a dog is say 5..6 year old and has never made a mistake and you breed a litter from him to your best bitch,then when the pups are born a well on say 6 months this same dog comes of its quarry for the first time,you try it again and it does the same,what do you do with the litter you bred of this dog.Do you run them on for another 8..10 months till there ready to start or do you get shut of them straight away.

thats a good question fat man