watchman 256 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 it would be interesting to know just how many of those young lads joined hoping they would not be deployed to afganistan and to have some other posting also i wonder how many were lied to by the recruting officers we can only hope that no more are killed and injured and that they return safely home its a fact of life that now days when a lad joins up he is almost certain to be deployed into yet another campaign/conflict/war which ever,this is well documented and you would be a fool to join up and think otherwise the days of come join the army live the life of luxury and see the world are long gone as well the troops of today know. a squaddie on the ground will take little from your sympathy but the comradery between these lads working in this environment is what gets them through good times and bad,brave bunch of lads and lasses out there doing a difficult job get my vote,jmo of course 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,585 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 also i wonder how many were lied to by the recruting officers You ever been in a recruiting office? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny boy68 11,726 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 it would be interesting to know just how many of those young lads joined hoping they would not be deployed to afganistan and to have some other posting also i wonder how many were lied to by the recruting officers we can only hope that no more are killed and injured and that they return safely home Many join up hoping to see action, you come across as a bit deluded. Soldiers really hate your type of sentimentality. hoping to see action and me being deluded why do so many have post traumatic stress syndrome?, why are so many homeless and cannot fit back in with society ? if sentiment had its proper place then they would not even be there I thought the same when i read Birds post, they go boys and come back men. Sad reality is they often come back homeless men with nobody there to tell them to jump, thats if theyve legs left. Still no valid explanation how these boys can be ready for the front line at 18-19 when you cant even join til then 18. Training in fitness, drills, guns stripping servicing, hand combat (there guns have bad reputations of packing up. Another point i would like to make, when the corperal (now searg) went to help the kid who had been shot, he swaped his rifle for the kids heavy machine gun, IMO if the corperal had been in pointing posistion with the heavy machine gun leading his section he may of got all his kids back. They admitted not even having basic first aid training, maybe to busy with all these drills that see them in such good stead. ATB Dougie, (Father of two) If you actually knew anything mate you'd know that they can join up at 17..............and anybody being deployed as weeks of extensive training under live fire.If you think these lads join up and don't know what they're facing then your deluded mate,recruiting offices don't drag the lads off the street and they're well informed of the realities of war. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 it would be interesting to know just how many of those young lads joined hoping they would not be deployed to afganistan and to have some other posting also i wonder how many were lied to by the recruting officers we can only hope that no more are killed and injured and that they return safely home Many join up hoping to see action, you come across as a bit deluded. Soldiers really hate your type of sentimentality. hoping to see action and me being deluded why do so many have post traumatic stress syndrome?, why are so many homeless and cannot fit back in with society ? if sentiment had its proper place then they would not even be there I thought the same when i read Birds post, they go boys and come back men. Sad reality is they often come back homeless men with nobody there to tell them to jump, thats if theyve legs left. Still no valid explanation how these boys can be ready for the front line at 18-19 when you cant even join til then 18. Training in fitness, drills, guns stripping servicing, hand combat (there guns have bad reputations of packing up. Another point i would like to make, when the corperal (now searg) went to help the kid who had been shot, he swaped his rifle for the kids heavy machine gun, IMO if the corperal had been in pointing posistion with the heavy machine gun leading his section he may of got all his kids back. They admitted not even having basic first aid training, maybe to busy with all these drills that see them in such good stead. ATB Dougie, (Father of two) If you actually knew anything mate you'd know that they can join up at 17..............and anybody being deployed as weeks of extensive training under live fire.If you think these lads join up and don't know what they're facing then your deluded mate,recruiting offices don't drag the lads off the street and they're well informed of the realities of war. No they cant, well they can if there parents allow them to (but at 17 they can not make that decision) as a parent i wouldnt sign, so were back to 18. I know first hand that these kids go in thinking they will come out with everything, the reality is most have nothing going in and nothing coming out, no qualifications your on the frontline simple (sand bags). Anyway we can go round and round in circles here, ive got an opinion and that is 18-19 is no age to be front man in Afghan, also that in the ammount of time these kids are given before being sent out to fight is far to short, they need time to digest there training, ok they have a few mop battles etc, but to tell me in a matter of weeks youve learned enough skill to lead a section through Talliban fire, then it is you whom is dilluded my friend. Again what trade can you learn by the age of 18? when you cant even begin to learn until you are 18?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny boy68 11,726 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 it would be interesting to know just how many of those young lads joined hoping they would not be deployed to afganistan and to have some other posting also i wonder how many were lied to by the recruting officers we can only hope that no more are killed and injured and that they return safely home Many join up hoping to see action, you come across as a bit deluded. Soldiers really hate your type of sentimentality. hoping to see action and me being deluded why do so many have post traumatic stress syndrome?, why are so many homeless and cannot fit back in with society ? if sentiment had its proper place then they would not even be there I thought the same when i read Birds post, they go boys and come back men. Sad reality is they often come back homeless men with nobody there to tell them to jump, thats if theyve legs left. Still no valid explanation how these boys can be ready for the front line at 18-19 when you cant even join til then 18. Training in fitness, drills, guns stripping servicing, hand combat (there guns have bad reputations of packing up. Another point i would like to make, when the corperal (now searg) went to help the kid who had been shot, he swaped his rifle for the kids heavy machine gun, IMO if the corperal had been in pointing posistion with the heavy machine gun leading his section he may of got all his kids back. They admitted not even having basic first aid training, maybe to busy with all these drills that see them in such good stead. ATB Dougie, (Father of two) The man on point wouldn't be carrying the heavy machine because if the man at point was hit and the troop had to fall back and got pinned down they'd be left with only there rifles to get themselves out of the shit.The man on point as to be mobile and carrying a M2 or something similar would be more detrimental to his safety. War is a terrible thing for the people involved and for the families........whether the war is warranted or not we MUST stand by our brave troops! John(father of three) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan_Mercian 27 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yeah they flopped whilst trying to remove their comrade, and they'll probably kick themselves for the rest of their lives. Adrenaline was through the roof, it was their first contact on their first patrol in their first war, they were under heavy fire trying to remove their mate who was bleeding out on a hammock....not a stretcher a hammock. I guarantee anyone in that situation would have reacted the same way as those guys did, they gave it their all. I bet if the same situation happened a month into their tour there would have been zero mistakes, if you look at the scenes of their second patrol they're like f*****g hawks, they're calm and working strong together. The British Army is the best in the world and those MEN are true assets to this country. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 everybody that joins the army now knows they are at some stage of thier career going to end up in the desert ... nobody can serve out there unles they are 18 or over ... but most of them are kids with kids mentalities ... i have phyicaly watched kids grow into men over a few months ... most hack it some dont and the mental pressure becomes to much for them and they fall apart when they get back and end up getting kicked out of the army and left to fend for themselves ... not easy when they have seen so much at such a young age ... think of the most gory horror film you have ever seen and times that by a thousand and you still wont come close to what the soldier on the ground will see over a 6 month deployment ... johnnyboy68 ... nobody gets extensive training under live fire before deployment health and safety in this country doesnt allow it ... the build up training is as good as it can be but NOTHING can prepare you for the actual horrors of a war and the fear adrenaline and rush you experience in your first fire fight ... a young lad has to make instant life and death decisions in a millisecond to keep himself alive ... the section commander has to make desicion after decision throught the fire fight to keep all of his section alive and thankfully through dicipline and hard training the soldier on the ground will react to his orders instantly and stay alive ... them boys out there are wearing osprey and carrying extra kit and ammo that weighs in at around + pounds then youve got your kevlar helmet and your weapon and your patrolling in exesive heat tring to fight an enemy that runs around in a dish dash and flip flops hardly equal is it ... trying to carry an injured soldier thats carrying the same kit as you plus his body weight whilst trying to stay in cover and not become a casualty yourself is no easy task believe me ..... the bottom line is NOBODY can even speculate as to what war is or feels like until they have stood in the heat with the sand soaked red beneath their boots ............. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticJock 539 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 ^^^^ f*****g right mate, well said. Seems alot of people have strong opinions without basing them on anything. I was 18 on my first tour, 19/20 on my second and 21 on my third. I might have had a ''kids mentality'' back then but I grew up very quickly, and I can say I always did the best I could in any situation. PTSD is defined as ''A normal reaction to an abnormal experience''. Such as seeing your section commander blown in half. A lot of our lads have symptoms of it and other stress related illnesses but we all wanted to go out there and do the job, it doesn't mean that those who wanted to go to war are unaffected at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Attack Fell Terrier 864 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Yeah they flopped whilst trying to remove their comrade, and they'll probably kick themselves for the rest of their lives. Adrenaline was through the roof, it was their first contact on their first patrol in their first war, they were under heavy fire trying to remove their mate who was bleeding out on a hammock....not a stretcher a hammock. I guarantee anyone in that situation would have reacted the same way as those guys did, they gave it their all. I bet if the same situation happened a month into their tour there would have been zero mistakes, if you look at the scenes of their second patrol they're like f*****g hawks, they're calm and working strong together. The British Army is the best in the world and those MEN are true assets to this country. I agree with that. It was a heart wrenching to see that kid shot and dying, but all things considered it could of been a lot worse and the footage of the second battle showed our lads were perfectly competent to do the job they were sent to do. I think it's easy to watch clips from that first battle and form an opinion that these are just confused youngsters, but as the second battle shown they learnt from that and they wiped the floor with the Taliban, and not only that, they built that town (what looked like a ghost town) back up and had people trading and helped them with getting on with their lives. Our lads are more than capable and do a very good job over there IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny boy68 11,726 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 everybody that joins the army now knows they are at some stage of thier career going to end up in the desert ... nobody can serve out there unles they are 18 or over ... but most of them are kids with kids mentalities ... i have phyicaly watched kids grow into men over a few months ... most hack it some dont and the mental pressure becomes to much for them and they fall apart when they get back and end up getting kicked out of the army and left to fend for themselves ... not easy when they have seen so much at such a young age ... think of the most gory horror film you have ever seen and times that by a thousand and you still wont come close to what the soldier on the ground will see over a 6 month deployment ... johnnyboy68 ... nobody gets extensive training under live fire before deployment health and safety in this country doesnt allow it ... the build up training is as good as it can be but NOTHING can prepare you for the actual horrors of a war and the fear adrenaline and rush you experience in your first fire fight ... a young lad has to make instant life and death decisions in a millisecond to keep himself alive ... the section commander has to make desicion after decision throught the fire fight to keep all of his section alive and thankfully through dicipline and hard training the soldier on the ground will react to his orders instantly and stay alive ... them boys out there are wearing osprey and carrying extra kit and ammo that weighs in at around + pounds then youve got your kevlar helmet and your weapon and your patrolling in exesive heat tring to fight an enemy that runs around in a dish dash and flip flops hardly equal is it ... trying to carry an injured soldier thats carrying the same kit as you plus his body weight whilst trying to stay in cover and not become a casualty yourself is no easy task believe me ..... the bottom line is NOBODY can even speculate as to what war is or feels like until they have stood in the heat with the sand soaked red beneath their boots ............. What about Castlemartin then and they also conduct live firing excercises in Suffield in Canada(BATUS).Your spot on that no amount of training can prepare anybody for their first contact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 everybody that joins the army now knows they are at some stage of thier career going to end up in the desert ... nobody can serve out there unles they are 18 or over ... but most of them are kids with kids mentalities ... i have phyicaly watched kids grow into men over a few months ... most hack it some dont and the mental pressure becomes to much for them and they fall apart when they get back and end up getting kicked out of the army and left to fend for themselves ... not easy when they have seen so much at such a young age ... think of the most gory horror film you have ever seen and times that by a thousand and you still wont come close to what the soldier on the ground will see over a 6 month deployment ... johnnyboy68 ... nobody gets extensive training under live fire before deployment health and safety in this country doesnt allow it ... the build up training is as good as it can be but NOTHING can prepare you for the actual horrors of a war and the fear adrenaline and rush you experience in your first fire fight ... a young lad has to make instant life and death decisions in a millisecond to keep himself alive ... the section commander has to make desicion after decision throught the fire fight to keep all of his section alive and thankfully through dicipline and hard training the soldier on the ground will react to his orders instantly and stay alive ... them boys out there are wearing osprey and carrying extra kit and ammo that weighs in at around + pounds then youve got your kevlar helmet and your weapon and your patrolling in exesive heat tring to fight an enemy that runs around in a dish dash and flip flops hardly equal is it ... trying to carry an injured soldier thats carrying the same kit as you plus his body weight whilst trying to stay in cover and not become a casualty yourself is no easy task believe me ..... the bottom line is NOBODY can even speculate as to what war is or feels like until they have stood in the heat with the sand soaked red beneath their boots ............. What about Castlemartin then and they also conduct live firing excercises in Suffield in Canada(BATUS).Your spot on that no amount of training can prepare anybody for their first contact. what about workop or salisbury plain or otterburn or kenya etc etc ... all live firing ranges BUT NOBODY FIRES BACK AT YOU ... anybody can fire live rounds and run around and with smoke and dems you can make it as reaslistic as you want it still doesnt come close to the real thing because in the back of your head you know its just training ............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny boy68 11,726 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 everybody that joins the army now knows they are at some stage of thier career going to end up in the desert ... nobody can serve out there unles they are 18 or over ... but most of them are kids with kids mentalities ... i have phyicaly watched kids grow into men over a few months ... most hack it some dont and the mental pressure becomes to much for them and they fall apart when they get back and end up getting kicked out of the army and left to fend for themselves ... not easy when they have seen so much at such a young age ... think of the most gory horror film you have ever seen and times that by a thousand and you still wont come close to what the soldier on the ground will see over a 6 month deployment ... johnnyboy68 ... nobody gets extensive training under live fire before deployment health and safety in this country doesnt allow it ... the build up training is as good as it can be but NOTHING can prepare you for the actual horrors of a war and the fear adrenaline and rush you experience in your first fire fight ... a young lad has to make instant life and death decisions in a millisecond to keep himself alive ... the section commander has to make desicion after decision throught the fire fight to keep all of his section alive and thankfully through dicipline and hard training the soldier on the ground will react to his orders instantly and stay alive ... them boys out there are wearing osprey and carrying extra kit and ammo that weighs in at around + pounds then youve got your kevlar helmet and your weapon and your patrolling in exesive heat tring to fight an enemy that runs around in a dish dash and flip flops hardly equal is it ... trying to carry an injured soldier thats carrying the same kit as you plus his body weight whilst trying to stay in cover and not become a casualty yourself is no easy task believe me ..... the bottom line is NOBODY can even speculate as to what war is or feels like until they have stood in the heat with the sand soaked red beneath their boots ............. What about Castlemartin then and they also conduct live firing excercises in Suffield in Canada(BATUS).Your spot on that no amount of training can prepare anybody for their first contact. what about workop or salisbury plain or otterburn or kenya etc etc ... all live firing ranges BUT NOBODY FIRES BACK AT YOU ... anybody can fire live rounds and run around and with smoke and dems you can make it as reaslistic as you want it still doesnt come close to the real thing because in the back of your head you know its just training ............ I said that above...........nothing can prepare anybody for their first contact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Buch 145 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Who ever was sayin you cant join the army till 18 is talking bollocks. You can join at 16, but just cant deploy till 18. I know of one lad out of 120 who didnt want to go on my last tour so he stayed back on guard. Imagine being a bricky but never building a house, thats what its like. Build up training for a tour takes 12 months (there or there about) and is very extensive, but as others have said nothing can prepare you for your first contact. Also who ever said you wouldnt trust some one with a milk float at 18 well maybe not. I wouldnt trust half my mates with half a crate of wife beater or the key to my room but would i trust em with a rifle, 600 rounds and my arse (not my arse hole ...). I didnt watch the program but id imagine the lad who was leading the section was the best, you dont give the section mong the heaviest ( and therefore usualy the most important) kit, you dont give the section mong the metal detector and you dont give the newest bloke the biggest gun (which generaly accounts for % of the sections firepower). As for the Section Commander being at the front, how can he lead the men if hes shot, the section commander is usualy in the middle of the section so he can control everyone better, better situational awareness ect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,585 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 It was said early on in the programme that the lad at the front was the best lad in the platoon, always had his shit squared away perfect and paid attention to the details Soldiers who have been there and experienced the situation have a right to think, say and feel how they want about the war, the army, the goverment and its motives, what I cant get my head round is someone who has never been there saying our troop are not capable to do that job and are only there because they have been led down the garden path.....I just think its an insult to their intelligence and skill. As I wrote before, seeing those young men makes you realise that there is still a lot to be proud about with regards to the youth of today and about this country in general, in a time when we all seem to get hung up on negetive stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Alot of 'experts' on here! We all feel a loss when we hear and see of soldiers dieing. Different people react differently too it. My opinion is that soldiers know what they are doing and regardless of the reasons for the wars they participate in they soldier because they love it! Its what makes them buzz. Some dont hack it and leave but some do and its like a drug to them. They all know what they are getting into and to be honest I think the reality of war we saw last night should be shown FAR more often so people cant say "they are just kids that havnt a clue and just think its like a game". Give them more credit! Theyve got hearts of lions and we should support them, not make out they are misguided cannon fodder! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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