EASY OR A LOT OF MESSING ABOUT ?

[Guest busterdog]

I wouldn't breed from any bitch that didn't give 100%, the dog of course has to give 100% but most people make excuses for the bitch, i'm not saying it has to be a death or glory bitch but it has to give 100%. I don't think for one second if you used the scale above you could reproduce what you wanted IE a finder from a stayer and so on, you pays your money you takes your chance.

[VOON 1,317]

I wouldn't breed from any bitch that didn't give 100%, the dog of course has to give 100% but most people make excuses for the bitch, i'm not saying it has to be a death or glory bitch but it has to give 100%. I don't think for one second if you used the scale above you could reproduce what you wanted IE a finder from a stayer and so on, you pays your money you takes your chance.

 

 

So how do you improve the line then? Know lots of lads that put mute dogs that can't really find over good bitchs, just to get a bit more fire in the pups. One man's meat is another man's poison, horses for courses etc, so with that in mind what is a 100% dog, or if you want to breed to better a line what qualities/traits do you want to improve? Not being smart buster, just looking for feedback of anyone with a view...personally we would always look for a stronger dog workwise, with mixed results.

 

Voon

[Guest busterdog]

I was thinking more about the line i've got Voon sorry i should of made that clearer. If i had a bitch that wasn't what i'de consider a bitch worthy of breeding from then thats where it would stop, if i wanted to improve a trait like finding then all anyone could do is find a line of dogs thats got a good reputation for finding. Personally i don't think any terrier lacks the nose to find "just the drive" and determination. IMO most people go wrong by not following a FAMILY of dogs, if you use one dog thats a great finder or stayer and that dogs from a run of the mill line then the chances are you'll get a run of the mill pup.

 

I would consider the only "BUT" and it's a big but to be the fact that every now and then you come across a dog or bitch so outstanding at it's work that you'd be a fool not to try and get something from it, the only thing then would be to hold your horses and see if that outcross geld before you used them back into the family....or drifted off into a different line with those pups.

 

Am i helping or just making the water more muddy....

[fat man 4,741]

I wouldn't breed from any bitch that didn't give 100%, the dog of course has to give 100% but most people make excuses for the bitch, i'm not saying it has to be a death or glory bitch but it has to give 100%. I don't think for one second if you used the scale above you could reproduce what you wanted IE a finder from a stayer and so on, you pays your money you takes your chance.

Totally agree with you d,as i personally think the bitch plays a bigger part in the breeding than the dog.I know of lads that will put the best dog about over bitchs that would not be fit to do a proper days graft and then when the pups go wrong they blame the dog.

[VOON 1,317]

Busterdog,

 

 

IMO most people go wrong by not following a FAMILY of dogs,............that's probaly the point i was trying to get across (Badly).....Lads say best to best etc....but if you have a line or family of terriers that are good steady dogs and you want to improve the line, what qualities do you look for in a Stud dog or bitch to improve the line. E.G. Greyhound breeder with a good 525 bitch,just lacking a little pace out of the traps, looks for a fast breaker, maybe a 475 dog to improve early pace and hopefully get that world beater.

 

With terrier breeding, What traits do you try and improve?? Working Style? Game sense? Finding abilty?, or what traits do lads think are most important when look for a stud dog or bitch. If you have a good steady bitch, that bays,stays,finds, would you go for a dog thats a little more assertive when working

 

Read once somewhere that Cyril Breay wouldnt breed from a dog that couldnt boss his fox when needs be.

 

Fatman,

 

Agree with you there and most Irish Breeders of any fancy probaly have the same outlook.

 

Voon

[Guest busterdog]

I have gone down the route of breeding steady dogs to hard bitches and visa versa, it didn't work out for me but i wouldn't say it couldn't work as in the breeding of terriers you never know. I would say Hardness in terriers is one of the easy traits to breed for but i don't want that in my terriers, i'm after a dog that just does enough to get the job done but one that won't take kindly to being pushed around itself. It wouldn't do to have every dog in the yard exactly the same, you need a few tools in the cupboard so to speak.

 

The family of dogs i keep produce everything from rock steady to iron hard, the hard thing for me to do is find the one that suites me. I put all three dogs out of one mating down once as all were stupid hard, i was averaging nine days out a season with each one. The last one i put down out of that litter i put to a steady dog and from that litter i produced two dogs and four bitches, the dogs were again stupid hard but all of the bitches were shite, all utter cowards and bullies. Like i said "you pays your money and takes your chance".

With hind sight i wish i'de stuck to my first choise, i used a dog on NS's advise and payed the price, that said who knows what she would of produced to anything different.

 

The one thing i always look for in any mating is the family as a whole behind both parents (warts and all), they must have "drive" and brains and if i had to choose between brains and brawn the brains would come first always.

[Guest dee mac]

you need a nice mixture of both brains and brawn a dog that can think on its feet and suit its style too what its facing you could dig this type of dog 4 or 5 weeks in a row but when faced with an aggresive opponent then it will change up a gear and give as good as it gets and have the steely determination too work and hold its game till job is done and after most of these types of encounters you ll find even the top class dogs need a fews weeks at least in the kennell too get healed up and recharge the batterys

[Glyn..... 5,208]

my opinion is,if a dogs bumping in to stangers all the time, brains does it most of the time, but if its old friends week in week out they sometimes need a another gear

[wilko tango 50]

i personally have no problem breeding from a hard dog or bitch i think its vital to keep a certain amount of hardness in your terriers to keep the line strong. but to try and balance things out a bit i would use a good steady dog across a iron hard bitch or visa versa. but then again whats peoples toughts of a hard terrier some think its a terrier tha has a hold for most of its time to ground but migt not get banged up and theres the ones that do the same and get destroyed but will notg come away. i think the second of them is the hard one but on that subject i personally prefare a good steady bayer. i also think terriers that lack finding ability really lack interest they dont want push on trough tight spots and to me i dont think theres anything as bad as a terrier that has no drive in them as its vital for big testing places.

[fat man 4,741]

I would never breed from a dog that was not capable of finishing a fox to ground,that includes both dog.n.bitch and thats mpo.I like a bit of hardness in a terrier,dont get me wrong i dont mean a dog that will come out as it has been through a shredder,i mean a terrier that can up the gears when needs must,When your diging stuff thats been dug a few times this is where a harder type of dog comes into his own as everyone knows the last ft of the dig will be the hardest on the dog,thats when the pressure is on and thats when a terrier needs that higher gear to keep the quarry in tight,nobody likes diging holes all day because a terrier let the quarry push it.jmho

[lukey 1,621]

Turning into another decent thread lads some good reading

[am back 31]

I would never breed from a dog that was not capable of finishing a fox to ground,that includes both dog.n.bitch and thats mpo.I like a bit of hardness in a terrier,dont get me wrong i dont mean a dog that will come out as it has been through a shredder,i mean a terrier that can up the gears when needs must,When your diging stuff thats been dug a few times this is where a harder type of dog comes into his own as everyone knows the last ft of the dig will be the hardest on the dog,thats when the pressure is on and thats when a terrier needs that higher gear to keep the quarry in tight,nobody likes diging holes all day because a terrier let the quarry push it.jmho

totally agree mate ,both parents should be capable of dealing with fox,before contemplating a litter of pups .too many nowadays are willing to breed from any thing .as for all on here knocking hard dogs ,when it gets to the nitty gritty they need that extra bit to get the job done .pissy bayers have got their role to play but just not in my kennels .

[Guest busterdog]

I would never breed from a dog that was not capable of finishing a fox to ground,that includes both dog.n.bitch and thats mpo.I like a bit of hardness in a terrier,dont get me wrong i dont mean a dog that will come out as it has been through a shredder,i mean a terrier that can up the gears when needs must,When your diging stuff thats been dug a few times this is where a harder type of dog comes into his own as everyone knows the last ft of the dig will be the hardest on the dog,thats when the pressure is on and thats when a terrier needs that higher gear to keep the quarry in tight,nobody likes diging holes all day because a terrier let the quarry push it.jmho

totally agree mate ,both parents should be capable of dealing with fox,before contemplating a litter of pups .too many nowadays are willing to breed from any thing .as for all on here knocking hard dogs ,when it gets to the nitty gritty they need that extra bit to get the job done .pissy bayers have got their role to play but just not in my kennels .

 

 

If thats meant for me then you crack on and keep a yard full of dogs that you can only dig once in a blue moon.. , untill you've had something that's truly hard as nails and not something that takes a knock or two then your opinion means nowt to me. Theres a fine line between hard and to hard in just the same way as steady and to steady IE giving them to much room, the dogs i PTS wouldn't give an inch and they honestly ruined more digs than they sorted out. It's all well and good having a terrier with more geers, which i fully understand but the ones i PTS weren't working them they were fighting them and trying to kill them, they couldn't get enough in their mouth, which IMO gives the game more chance to move.

As stated i know what i've got and your Opinion means f**k all to me, it's the death and glory mob that f****d the terrier game up.

[wilko tango 50]

buserdog i dont know the lads who posted them but am sure they were nt aimed at you. i think they wr just giving there honest opinions about breeding. after all thats te way the tread has gone. we all seen the pics you posted of your crew afew days ago and anyone here who could nt complement ya on them are either wankers or jealous cants. and for anyone else here who does nt know busters stuff well i can tell you i dug over a dog he sent to ireland on a few ocasions and i can tell yous he is a very good dog that came up trumps in some testing places. you just keep breeding the way you are and you ll hve no probs in the future buster

[Guest busterdog]

Sorry fat man that wasn't meant for you. I'm sick of jokers coming on ruining threads just when they get interesting, i've put MHO on and told a little about dogs i had and got shitty comments about putting them down. Heres a question for you who would you trust with your pride and joy after twenty odd years of seeing tossers with terriers !!!, if i can find a home for dogs that don't suite me then i pass them on but only when i'm happy with the people who're getting them.