gameness, hardness and prey drive

[Casso 1,261]

gameness = dog on dog, man on man the only true test of gameness is one on one either up hill or pound for pound!

pray drive = the out and out drive to catch the intended pray

hardness = the amount of stick a dog can take and still continue to catch of hold its pray

 

 

nicked from a prevoius post on this subject was writen about previous staffords i have owned.

 

my point was not that you do not get gameness and pray drive in the same dog, just that in my very very limited experience it seems to be one or the other,

 

i have had dogs rotivate the tarmac to get to other dogs (and i am under no illusion this means gameness),,

but take them out in the field and they could not give a toss,

But others could not give a toss about other dogs but go wild when you get the lamp out,,

 

The thinking was simple,

 

Wolfs hunt and have a very simple pack structure, at some point one of the dogs will challenge the alpha,

When this happens the two of them will try just about everything not to fight, threat displays etc,,

The point being any injury would then potentially risk not being able to hunt, therefore survive,

To breed a dog to be "game" for long enough to ignore all of these instincts, you must surely lose hunting instinct?

 

Could be wrong just a thought,

 

but then again this could just be an excuse for owning shite dogs,, ha ha

 

all the best,

 

rob,

 

Thats an interesting post rob,

 

wolves and dogs are very similar for sure,,but man has bred dogs for drive , because it can be focused into whatever form man needs from the dog, fighting, hunting, searching, whatever,,

 

in breeding for heart (drive) , you increase the desire in the dog to make contact with whatever form its breeding dictates,

 

so much so that it over rides its survival instinct in some cases,,,but increases its pull to make contact,

 

no wolf has as much heart as a good dog,,instinct plays a major role in the wolf's life, it keeps him alive because its mostly based on fear,,

 

so breeding for desire, drive,heart, whatever you call it, is breeding the fear out, and the want in,,best of luck

[stewie 3,387]

some classic thl comments on this thread, il just stick to my vislas these lurcher dogs sound to difficult

:laugh: beat me to mate!!! this place is unbelievable sometimes

[stewie 3,387]

YO BURGER MUNCHER DO AN HANDS STAND AND LET YA ARSE DO THE TALKING MORE SENSE THAT WAY

:laugh:

[Guest dances]

gameness = dog on dog, man on man the only true test of gameness is one on one either up hill or pound for pound!

pray drive = the out and out drive to catch the intended pray

hardness = the amount of stick a dog can take and still continue to catch of hold its pray

 

 

nicked from a prevoius post on this subject was writen about previous staffords i have owned.

 

my point was not that you do not get gameness and pray drive in the same dog, just that in my very very limited experience it seems to be one or the other,

 

i have had dogs rotivate the tarmac to get to other dogs (and i am under no illusion this means gameness),,

but take them out in the field and they could not give a toss,

But others could not give a toss about other dogs but go wild when you get the lamp out,,

 

The thinking was simple,

 

Wolfs hunt and have a very simple pack structure, at some point one of the dogs will challenge the alpha,

When this happens the two of them will try just about everything not to fight, threat displays etc,,

The point being any injury would then potentially risk not being able to hunt, therefore survive,

To breed a dog to be "game" for long enough to ignore all of these instincts, you must surely lose hunting instinct?

 

Could be wrong just a thought,

 

but then again this could just be an excuse for owning shite dogs,, ha ha

 

all the best,

 

rob,

 

Thats an interesting post rob,

 

wolves and dogs are very similar for sure,,but man has bred dogs for drive , because it can be focused into whatever form man needs from the dog, fighting, hunting, searching, whatever,,

 

in breeding for heart (drive) , you increase the desire in the dog to make contact with whatever form its breeding dictates,

 

so much so that it over rides its survival instinct in some cases,,,but increases its pull to make contact,

 

no wolf has as much heart as a good dog,,instinct plays a major role in the wolf's life, it keeps him alive because its mostly based on fear,,

 

so breeding for desire, drive,heart, whatever you call it, is breeding the fear out, and the want in,,best of luck

 

I've got to agree with that because I was always taught and have seen that intelligence magnifies fear, some of the smartest dogs I've seen working have been complete cowards once teeth are shown

[stav11 32]

i would say there is different types of gameness,i knew of a lurcher that wanted to fight every dog it seen and giving the chance would cause a lot of damage to another dog, its owner would make the said comment he is game as feck,but out for the first time 1 night pre ban we called a charlie in and slipped his dog and OH MY!!! we had a tale grabber,it was embarssing, i slipped my dog to end this escapade and the fellas shit of dog turned on mine after she had just finished his fox. now this dog showed gameness to other dogs but when on quarry it certainlly did not.

[iceman001979 1,316]

Every lucher should have what has been said but there is still luchers out there that dont but still the best in there owners eyes

[bird 10,013]

i would say there is different types of gameness,i knew of a lurcher that wanted to fight every dog it seen and giving the chance would cause a lot of damage to another dog, its owner would make the said comment he is game as feck,but out for the first time 1 night pre ban we called a charlie in and slipped his dog and OH MY!!! we had a tale grabber,it was embarssing, i slipped my dog to end this escapade and the fellas shit of dog turned on mine after she had just finished his fox. now this dog showed gameness to other dogs but when on quarry it certainlly did not.

 

 

ive heard that as well, where dogs will really fight each other and get stuck in, but they are not to keen on mixing it with a fox .? I carnt work it out, because you would think they no its comp to them, more so if they are about 70-80lb dog, and a fox 15-20lb. You would think they must know that would get far more hurt with there own kind, than little 16lb fox strange

[johnny boy68 11,726]

i think a dog being game and having massive prey drive is the same thing both being that when the going gets tough they keep going regardless of what pain or hardship might come their way their only thought to get to what they are after be it a lurcher or terrier same applies to both .hardness how do you define that when talking about a dog i had a bitch that would back off from even the smallest dog even a toy dog but only had one gear when out in the feild whether on big stuff or small. she was the best lurcher i have ever owned in 40 odd years of keeping running dogs but this bitch would back off from any dog that confronted her or looked at her the wrong way.but i defy anyone to say she wasnt hard just my opinion .

 

Seen some great catch dogs that had loads of prey drive catching in hedges etc...........though when it came to finishing the job they didn't have the minerals for it.So you saying prey drive and gameness are the same is flawed mate.

[stav11 32]

i would say there is different types of gameness,i knew of a lurcher that wanted to fight every dog it seen and giving the chance would cause a lot of damage to another dog, its owner would make the said comment he is game as feck,but out for the first time 1 night pre ban we called a charlie in and slipped his dog and OH MY!!! we had a tale grabber,it was embarssing, i slipped my dog to end this escapade and the fellas shit of dog turned on mine after she had just finished his fox. now this dog showed gameness to other dogs but when on quarry it certainlly did not.

 

 

ive heard that as well, where dogs will really fight each other and get stuck in, but they are not to keen on mixing it with a fox .? I carnt work it out, because you would think they no its comp to them, more so if they are about 70-80lb dog, and a fox 15-20lb. You would think they must know that would get far more hurt with there own kind, than little 16lb fox strange

it baffles me mate.

[boyo 1,398]

johnny boy when they have what inme on about they dont need any help to finish any job thats why i lumped them together.if they havnt got the minerals as you call it to finish the job then i dont consider them to have gameness and prey drive to the extent ime talking about .

[johnny boy68 11,726]

johnny boy when they have what inme on about they dont need any help to finish any job thats why i lumped them together.if they havnt got the minerals as you call it to finish the job then i dont consider them to have gameness and prey drive to the extent ime talking about .

I've seen dogs with loads of prey drive to catch a rabbit..........theres no quarry in the uk that requires a dog to have gameness......FACT

 

Prey drive is a term used in catching/chasing something.Finishing the job I'd class as tenacity or hardness.......if peeps are testing there lurchers for gameness then imo they're in the wrong game.

[boyo 1,398]

this is where we differ in opinions i call gameness the will to go in where it hurts at the end of the day when it has allready put in a long shift and is tiring and still gives hundred per cent whether its on rhfd if you have. or have seen a dog like this and you still dont think its game i dont know what is .

[johnny boy68 11,726]

this is where we differ in opinions i call gameness the will to go in where it hurts at the end of the day when it has allready put in a long shift and is tiring and still gives hundred per cent whether its on rhfd if you have. or have seen a dog like this and you still dont think its game i dont know what is .

Call it what you want mate its not "gameness"...........I've seen a dog like you describe doing what you describe BUT it gets bullied by a smaller kennel mate now a true game dog would not.

 

A dog with great tenacity and drive will plough into quarry time after time though that dog put up against something with same physical attributes and tools as him then see how it reacts.

[coney clucky 93]

i think that a dog that pull teeth and then gets as much stick as it is giving out and still goes all out to kill its prey then goes back into same quarry very next slip and do it allover again on a fresh catch as got the prey drive and the gameness it takes a good game dog to take time and time again a quarry that is going to give pain and injuries dont matter how good the dog is at handling them at times it will get hurt and goes back for more

[nitestalker 28 209]

i think that a dog that pull teeth and then gets as much stick as it is giving out and still goes all out to kill its prey then goes back into same quarry very next slip and do it allover again on a fresh catch as got the prey drive and the gameness it takes a good game dog to take time and time again a quarry that is going to give pain and injuries dont matter how good the dog is at handling them at times it will get hurt and goes back for more

[bANNED TEXT] on the money mate cud not agree more with that my viw exactly atb