chimp 299 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 oh well , i wonder if blair is shitting his pants now. something to look forward too i suppose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RicW 67 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 There was a 90 year old man in the public gallery whose parents, wife and family died in Sobibor when Demjanjuk was there. Ask him how he feels. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 There was a 90 year old man in the public gallery whose parents, wife and family died in Sobibor when Demjanjuk was there. Ask him how he feels. Would he feel any better had the old boy in question refused to do his duty as a soldier and been shot for it and his family treated as deserters of the nazi cause and then they just got in another man to to the gaurd duty anyway? The bloke was following orders, orders which if not followed held the death penalty! Im not saying he was a good bloke but f**k me, how many of us can honestly say that if the ENTIRE country with rutheless efficiency started rounding up immigrants tomorrow and shooting them you wouldnt at least play your part because if you didnt you would be shot and your family treated like shit because of your actions? War really is a shitty mess and its never a simple case of the forces of good battling the forces of evil when you look into the details like this. That act of genocide was a very low point in the history of human 'civilisation' theres no taking away from that. Maybe we should have a word with the yanks about their behaviour on August 6th and 9th 1945 against the japs. Or our long history of shitty acts in war? If the gaurd in question was dishing out the orders then whether hes 91 or 121 I would see him hang by his neck but this isnt the same. JMO 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 There was a 90 year old man in the public gallery whose parents, wife and family died in Sobibor when Demjanjuk was there. Ask him how he feels. you got his number? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
miller 18 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Most of the Nazis claimed to be 'following orders'.... Murder is murder. I for one am glad to see Justice done, no matter how long it has taken, or how old the murderer is. Lets not get into Nazi apologism.... You all seem to forget about the ghettos and persecution of the Jews during the reign of Queen Elizabeth 1st in our own country before Germany had a go at them, or does this not count because it was to long ago to bring anyone to justice? and it is just convenient to blame the Nazis for every wrong ever as they was the last people with a grudge against them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jt750 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. so that gives them the right to have carte blanche and do as they as they like.as i said not only jews sufered during the war.although you would think by listening to thier bullshit propaganda they were the only ones to sacrifice anything.500,000 british lost thier lifes.500,000 americans lost thier lifes.26million germans and around 29million russians.dont here them bleating on about it 70odd year later.war never brings out the good in people only the bad.why stop at the germans?the french,dutch,italians.latvians and a few others were only to glad to have tier own soldiers andpoliceman round up thier jews and ship them east.the jews have been persecuted from year dot.if i were jewish (god forbid) i would be asking myself why aret we trusted and why are we hated?as for your scenario well i would certinly preserve my own life in such a situation.could i live with myself afterwards who knows but id certainly not be shot in the back of the head or worse for not doing it.does that make me a bad person?its in the psyche of human nature to preserve ones own life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,783 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. My life or 20'000 british? I would take the bullet! Absolutely no doubt in my mind. My life or 20'000 people from a sect of society I feel to be dragging down this country? I cant honestly answer. Im not saying I would condone it, because its blatantly wrong but if I honestly believed a section of society was dragging down my country and I could either do my duty begrudgingly and aid the killing of them OR refuse and be shot and know my family will be treated like shit because of my actions I would probably aid in the killing. Theres my honest answer And can I say again, before anyone thinks im antisemetic, the act of genocide commited by the nazis was horrific! I have alot of respect for the Israelis, they dont fanny around when it comes to defense! Whether they are good or bad they arnt push overs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob190364 2,594 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 If anyone ever gets the chance to visit Auchwitz I strongly recommend they do, I went last year and it's easily the most shocking thing I've ever seen. No one who goes there would ever have even an ounce of compassion or forgiveness for a former Natzi whether they were following orders or not! It actually made me feel physically sick! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnny boy68 11,726 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. My life or 20'000 british? I would take the bullet! Absolutely no doubt in my mind. My life or 20'000 people from a sect of society I feel to be dragging down this country? I cant honestly answer. Im not saying I would condone it, because its blatantly wrong but if I honestly believed a section of society was dragging down my country and I could either do my duty begrudgingly and aid the killing of them OR refuse and be shot and know my family will be treated like shit because of my actions I would probably aid in the killing. Theres my honest answer And can I say again, before anyone thinks im antisemetic, the act of genocide commited by the nazis was horrific! I have alot of respect for the Israelis, they dont fanny around when it comes to defense! Whether they are good or bad they arnt push overs. And once they shot you for disobeying orders they'd order somebody else to do it........in war "right and wrong" is usually clouded by actions of a questionable nature. War is never pretty and will always be a contentious subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jt750 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. so that gives them the right to have carte blanche and do as they as they like.as i said not only jews sufered during the war.although you would think by listening to thier bullshit propaganda they were the only ones to sacrifice anything.500,000 british lost thier lifes.500,000 americans lost thier lifes.26million germans and around 29million russians.dont here them bleating on about it 70odd year later.war never brings out the good in people only the bad.why stop at the germans?the french,dutch,italians.latvians and a few others were only to glad to have tier own soldiers andpoliceman round up thier jews and ship them east.the jews have been persecuted from year dot.if i were jewish (god forbid) i would be asking myself why aret we trusted and why are we hated?as for your scenario well i would certinly preserve my own life in such a situation.could i live with myself afterwards who knows but id certainly not be shot in the back of the head or worse for not doing it.does that make me a bad person?its in the psyche of human nature to preserve ones own life. The british the russians and whoever else you care to quote who lost people in the war mainly died fighting ..not rounded up and put to death for who or what they believe in ...no-one knows the numbers who went through the death camps 20 + million has been quoted and if thats ok for you and its indicative of todays society than i'll be happier 6 feet under. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I lost family in WW2 ..admittedly they were 4 great uncles but i knew all my other great aunts and uncles and i still wonder to this day what they were really like. As for you lot banging on about he's an old man who shouldn't have been tried for something that happened 70 years ago go away and ask yourself this. Your boss gives you 2 choices either lead 20,000 innocent people into that building to die or die yourself ...you take the easy option and do it ..could you live with yourself for 70 years without commiting suicide or dying a drunk ..i know i couldn't. ..sounds like he had no remorse about what he did.. One other thing the posters banging on about what a bunch of cruel c*nts the israeli's are do you not think the holocaust had this impact on them. When israel was made a state and they said something on the lines of "we will never ever be treated and dominated in this way again" they bloody well meant it. so that gives them the right to have carte blanche and do as they as they like.as i said not only jews sufered during the war.although you would think by listening to thier bullshit propaganda they were the only ones to sacrifice anything.500,000 british lost thier lifes.500,000 americans lost thier lifes.26million germans and around 29million russians.dont here them bleating on about it 70odd year later.war never brings out the good in people only the bad.why stop at the germans?the french,dutch,italians.latvians and a few others were only to glad to have tier own soldiers andpoliceman round up thier jews and ship them east.the jews have been persecuted from year dot.if i were jewish (god forbid) i would be asking myself why aret we trusted and why are we hated?as for your scenario well i would certinly preserve my own life in such a situation.could i live with myself afterwards who knows but id certainly not be shot in the back of the head or worse for not doing it.does that make me a bad person?its in the psyche of human nature to preserve ones own life. The british the russians and whoever else you care to quote who lost people in the war mainly died fighting ..not rounded up and put to death for who or what they believe in ...no-one knows the numbers who went through the death camps 20 + million has been quoted and if thats ok for you and its indicative of todays society than i'll be happier 6 feet under. 20million hahah where the hell did that come from.f**k there was never that many jews anyway.try around a million and you could be right.i susgest you maybe go do some research before quoting figures.the 6million figure was banded around for decades and now even the jewish lobby will admit it was a million.even then im dubious of that. oh and the russans did there fair share of rounding up and shooting millions of unarmed civillians.like the 50,000 polish officers they casually shot in the back of the head over a months perioud working all night.thyen burying thier bodies in pits.then they blamed the germans for it.fortunaeltly the germans found the grave and the truth came out.yeltsin released the death orders with stallins signature on it in the 80s.also what about the 20million ukraine farmers who stallin starved to death cause they wouldnt join his collective farms policy.the list goes on and on. Edited May 13, 2011 by scothunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jt750 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 sorry 20 million was meant to read 2 million Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blan89 159 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 if that man had refused to do his job he would of been killed,he would not of saved a single life just wasted his own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nik_B 3,790 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 What bothers me about all of this is what is going to happen if they extradite someone who is later found to be innocent. At that kind of age they could easily die away from their home or families. IMHO Justice has pretty much been served as all of the architects of the holocaust are dead, many of whom were caught and punished. I think it's time to let sleeping dogs lie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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