Lucas terriers.

[Simoman 110]

I've probably made a great big stick to be hit with here, but like I said, my avenue of working dogs was'nt the same as his, but I can still see the stuff he did for years is still a league above some of the 'Back-yard-breeders' that refuse to acknowledge that dos'nt need laying up for a month after each dig.

 

I knew Brian a little and he was good to me but the thing that annoys so many terriermen is that most of the stories were FICTION. The one thing that bugged me was the challenges in a certain paper offering to match Cavaliers against ANY working terriers on digging, this is clearly a joke :whistle: I'd have paid to see a cavalier work a January dog fox and keep it bottled up for 4/5 hours whilst its dug to

[minion 29]

I've probably made a great big stick to be hit with here, but like I said, my avenue of working dogs was'nt the same as his, but I can still see the stuff he did for years is still a league above some of the 'Back-yard-breeders' that refuse to acknowledge that dos'nt need laying up for a month after each dig.

 

I knew Brian a little and he was good to me but the thing that annoys so many terriermen is that most of the stories were FICTION. The one thing that bugged me was the challenges in a certain paper offering to match Cavaliers against ANY working terriers on digging, this is clearly a joke :whistle: I'd have paid to see a cavalier work a January dog fox and keep it bottled up for 4/5 hours whilst its dug to

 

 

I fully understand. I am not a digger and have no opinions on the matter. To be honest though I can't understand why people get upset so mutch. At the end of the day even if was all lies who cares. Why do people get so pissed off? I just wouldn't let something get to me so mutch.

[jrb 0]

I've probably made a great big stick to be hit with here, but like I said, my avenue of working dogs was'nt the same as his, but I can still see the stuff he did for years is still a league above some of the 'Back-yard-breeders' that refuse to acknowledge that dos'nt need laying up for a month after each dig.

 

I knew Brian a little and he was good to me but the thing that annoys so many terriermen is that most of the stories were FICTION. The one thing that bugged me was the challenges in a certain paper offering to match Cavaliers against ANY working terriers on digging, this is clearly a joke :whistle: I'd have paid to see a cavalier work a January dog fox and keep it bottled up for 4/5 hours whilst its dug to

 

 

A good point on the fiction issue, but he was a good storyteller... On the challenges using Cavaliers as digging dogs i think that was just being mischevious and toying with a certain person or persons who i think he used to enjoy teasing, people who were fortunate enough to know him will know he did have that streak to his humour. You know as well as I do

it would not be possible to do.

I think that wherever Brian is now, he will be having a quiet chuckle to himself knowing that he can still raise hackles from beyond the grave ! (either that or telling the big bearded fella upstairs where he went wrong and how he should have done it !! )

Edited February 16, 2007 by jrb

[Guest Shameless]

I've probably made a great big stick to be hit with here, but like I said, my avenue of working dogs was'nt the same as his, but I can still see the stuff he did for years is still a league above some of the 'Back-yard-breeders' that refuse to acknowledge that dos'nt need laying up for a month after each dig.

 

I knew Brian a little and he was good to me but the thing that annoys so many terriermen is that most of the stories were FICTION. The one thing that bugged me was the challenges in a certain paper offering to match Cavaliers against ANY working terriers on digging, this is clearly a joke :whistle: I'd have paid to see a cavalier work a January dog fox and keep it bottled up for 4/5 hours whilst its dug to

he challaged me to run my Keera against Canaan when we said yes he upped the ante to 5k when we said yes he backed out then incidently when out for just a walk with Alan H who had Canaan I took Snipers mum she killed four and Canaan killed none ask him if you like and my bitch was an old lady by then, Incidently my affirmative response to the challange was printed on the front of ED RD

[jrb 0]

.... just an afterthought regarding a lot of the stories being fictitious....

 

I met a lot of dog men over the years, and Iheard a lot of 'true' stories regarding their dogs, as I expect many people on here have heard.

If you are totally honest with yourselves, how many of these fabulous tales do you think were 100% accurate ?

The best ones ( usually heard around the beer tents ) relating to dogs their friends owned or dogs they previously owned, often rank alongside Harry Potter in factual content !

 

I personally dont mind a fabricated story, as long as its entertaining and the storyteller dos'nt take themselves too seriously !!

[bassethund 0]

this is po

I don't know how many of you have noticed the length of back in these terriers and this is something i think has been overlooked in the modern day terrier. I suppose the ultimate shape a terrier should be, in order to be able to get anywhere a fox can, and that is to be the shape of a fox! I have dug and shot around 1200 foxes in my years and it never ceased to amaze me as to the elasticty they have especially in tight spots, and i hope you chaps seize every opportunity of handling your quarry to remind yourselves that every so often you must take stock as to the shape we are breeding our terriers, the trend seems to be a short back with a body shape akin to a matchbox and yet expecting our terriers to perform in every instance at a quarry with a far different body shape, all your earth dwelling quarry, both past and present have long flexible backs. Something to ponder over.

 

 

 

...... damn, thought id cracked the photo thing !!

 

Jason

 

Polo is on the Lucas Terrier Club website at www.lucasterrier.co.uk/polo.htm so no need to fight with uploading photos. His descendents through Mark's line - when he bred the Sealyham Lulu to Polo - are still working in the Essex area in a small pack. Mark currently has an outcrossed Lucas bitch, Tink, as his line had become too interbred, that he has mated to Polo's grandson and I am sure some of these will go to working homes too.

 

Lucas terriers have no Plummer/Raggengill lines in them as all these dogs were de-registered by the Club in 1999. The Lucas is Norfolk/Sealyham and nothing else.

 

As already said, there is Max, and also the young bitch his owner has, who is working and one or two others dotted around the country. The truth of the matter is that most do go to pet homes and this was a source of revenue that Sir Jocelyn Lucas was not averse to!

 

I've tried to add a photo of Polo but don't know if I will have any success either.

 

Cheers

 

Jazz

 

 

Yea I remember getting a letter from the Lucus terrier club telling me that they had discovered the introduction of plummer blood and that my dog was no longer considered a Lucus, but is now a sporting lucus.

 

It didn't effect me one way or another to be honest.

[jrb 0]

he challaged me to run my Keera against Canaan when we said yes he upped the ante to 5k when we said yes he backed out then incidently when out for just a walk with Alan H who had Canaan I took Snipers mum she killed four and Canaan killed none ask him if you like and my bitch was an old lady by then, Incidently my affirmative response to the challange was printed on the front of ED RD

 

I cant defend that or really comment on it anymore than Iknow that Canaan was never going to make a top class match dog. The breeding may have been good enough, but the geography and training aspects were never going to compete with a dog schooled on the fens.

 

I'm coming over as a bit of a disciple here !

Dont get me wrong, I dont think for one moment the sun shone from his preverbial, and i didnt share many of his ideas. I just think a lot of people are very negative and perhaps should see him as not a top class hare courser/ digger/ mountain rescue dog handler/ perfoming circus dog trainer but accept ( reluctantly if you like ) that as a genuine working dog man, he was above average, ( and he did tell a good tale, fictional or otherwise ).

[fellman 116]

ok if he was above the average dog man i will list a couple of things

he bred terriers thet are shit in the ground and not worthy of the name terrier!

his "ultimate running machine " was a bag of shite !

and he told tall tales !

and you consider this above avaerage?

we all have our own standards i guess

thats without even mentioning the fact he hated terrierman and was (alledgedly) a grass!

f*****g hell i choose my friends better than that!

in a word the guy was a knob ,puppy peddler ,and a liar!

yis fellman

[jrb 0]

[.

 

Cheers

 

Jazz

 

 

Yea I remember getting a letter from the Lucus terrier club telling me that they had discovered the introduction of plummer blood and that my dog was no longer considered a Lucus, but is now a sporting lucus.

 

It didn't effect me one way or another to be honest.

 

The origional starting point of Brians project on establishing a sporting Lucas revival was to cross Polo to one of his rough coated red & white bitches called Gram.

Anything and everything subsequently bred from this stock contains a degree of Plummer Terrier.

 

The dogs Mark has bred, and continues to breed, all revert back to a pedigree Sealyham called Lulu.

I can guarantee, having known Mark well and seen his dogs work often enough ( albeit a fair time ago ) that they will have been bred from workers and will make workers.

 

I've been actively out of the dog game for probably 6 or 7 years now, but its nice to see the petty jealousy and back stabbing lives on !!

 

If you keep a JRT for ratting, or a Plummer for bushing rabbits or a Fell for digging, if it does what you want from it and you are happy with it then its a good dog in my book.

[jrb 0]

ok if he was above the average dog man i will list a couple of things

he bred terriers thet are shit in the ground and not worthy of the name terrier!

his "ultimate running machine " was a bag of shite !

and he told tall tales !

and you consider this above avaerage?

we all have our own standards i guess

thats without even mentioning the fact he hated terrierman and was (alledgedly) a grass!

f*****g hell i choose my friends better than that!

in a word the guy was a knob ,puppy peddler ,and a liar!

yis fellman

 

'He bred Terriers that are shit in the ground'...... what, ALL of them ? I had a good black and tan bitch in the late 's, bred from a dog called 'Bone' a red, top drawer fox killer. Bone sired countless pups due to his reputation. Do you think all of the pups made top quality ? of course not, there are too many factors and too many idiots who would enter their pup at the end of a dig, at 6 or 7 months old and expect, because of the sire, the pup to kill the fox in 30 seconds !

You seem like somebody who knows the terrier game, you must know that a large number of the people attracted to it, through the shows or what they read, are failures waiting to happen.

Im not saying Plummer bred a succesfull line of guaranteed earth dogs, because we both know he didnt. Some worked, some didnt.. Through his success as a writter his breeding became popular ( see Hancock Lurchers ) Its innevatable that pups will end up in the hands of a lot of ammatures. The dogs I bred from the line of Fells i kept were farmed out very carefully, and as a result failures were almost zero.

 

With reference to 'Tales being told' let me tell you of weekend digging with a very well known and 'well respected' Terrierman in West Wales.

I was invited through a mutual friend to spend a weekend with this authority and author of Terriers.

On the first day we were taken to a very big place, 30 or so entrances. After using a 'guaranteed' dog which said no, I was invited to try my dog. After about 25 mins we got a mark at about 6/7 feet. Whilst digging the mark was moving along the tube by 4 or 5 feet. After about 2 hours , during which time the dogs honesty and gameness was questioned, we broke through on the dogs back, as i pulled him back ,one marched out.. followed by a second (explaining the mark moving) The dog was virtually unmarked.

But this is the best bit... As the gear marched out, this top dog mans 'dog-catchers noose' broke, and i witnessed amature panic. It was laughable !

 

we do all have our own standards, and mine were a lot higher than this 'big name' Terrierman, both in standards of dogs and conduct.

 

Ive told this story not to big myself up, I have no need i dont have digging dogs anymore, but to illustrate the point that you shouldnt believe all you hear or read. Chineese whispers were always rife in the dog world, and from what ive read on here, some things never change !

[Simoman 110]

Don't hold back fellman As I said I have no axe to grind and yes people do bull slightly around the beer tent after a couple but there are so many genuine lads out there and when you put down your stories in print and sell them as factual (which he did) and that gives youngsters in the sport (like me) the wrong impression. Nobody could tell a tale like him but I remember going ferreting and he was telling me how many rabbits were in the warren by the dogs marking I was young and believed this. For me the next generation of hunting authors, Darcy, Dooley and the older hunters such as Phil Lloyd, Dave Harcombe have my upmost respect.

I love a good yarn but as you get older you get a "feel" for the real deal, if i'm after advice there are plenty of people on here, Chief, shay etc etc. Sorry boys not blowing smoke up your arse

[jrb 0]

Don't hold back fellman As I said I have no axe to grind and yes people do bull slightly around the beer tent after a couple but there are so many genuine lads out there and when you put down your stories in print and sell them as factual (which he did) and that gives youngsters in the sport (like me) the wrong impression. Nobody could tell a tale like him but I remember going ferreting and he was telling me how many rabbits were in the warren by the dogs marking I was young and believed this. For me the next generation of hunting authors, Darcy, Dooley and the older hunters such as Phil Lloyd, Dave Harcombe have my upmost respect.

I love a good yarn but as you get older you get a "feel" for the real deal, if i'm after advice there are plenty of people on here, Chief, shay etc etc. Sorry boys not blowing smoke up your arse

 

The number of rabbits in the warren !! he tried that one with me but luckily I was old enough to not be mugged off !!

perhaps im reading too much into it or giving him too much credit but perhaps it was a sounding out proceedure to see what he could get away with !!

 

....... you do know that Santa is a fraud.. :whistle:

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Edited February 17, 2007 by CHALKWARREN

[DUCKWING 302]

WELL LADS ,

 

IAM AFRAID ANYWAY YOU DRESS IT UP ........... THE MAN WAS A LIAR AND A FRAUD !!!!

 

HE WASNT THE FIRST AND HE WONT BE THE LAST IN THE DOG GAME

 

PERSONALLY AS IVE SAID BEFORE , I MET HIM AS A YOUNGSTER AT A SHOW WHERE HE WAS BUYING A " SHOW " TERRIER TO ADD INTO HIS LINE OF PLUMMERS , I QUESTIONED HIS BREEDING METHODS AND WAS USHERED TO ONE SIDE AND GIVEN A COPY OF HIS LASTEST BIBLE , YEP ......... I TOOK THE BRIBE TO SHUT UP ......EVEN AT TEN YRS OLD I KNEW A BRIBE WHEN I SAW IT ,

TROUBLE WAS IT WAS ONE HELL OF A LET DOWN FOR A YOUNG KID THAT HAD BUILT HIM UP IN HIS SUBCONCIOUS

 

BACK TO THE LUCASES ,

 

SEEN A FEW WORK BY A PURE BULLSHITTER WHO WAS SUPPOSEDLY A GOOD TERRIERMAN ...... YEAH RIGHT !!!!!!! WORKING CERTIFICATES ... EVERY ONE OF THEM

 

NO DOUBT THERE WILL BE LUCAS DOGS OUT THERE WHCH WILL WORK TO SOMEONES STANDARDS ..... JUST NOT MINE , ..........

 

YOU SEE LADS THE THING WHICH STICKS IN MY CRAW IS THE FACT THAT KIDS WERENT AS LUCKY AS ME ........... THEY DIDNT SEE THROUGH THE LONG WORDS AND BULL .......... NOPE ............... THEY BELIVED THE HYPE ............

ME I WAS LUCKY ............ I FOUND REAL HEROES ........ INTHE HEDGEROWS AND FIELDS

 

 

ALL THE BEST

 

DUCKWING

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Edited February 17, 2007 by CHALKWARREN