cant find? or dont want to?

[strongbow 149]

your thoughts on dogs that are adults not pups, that are well entered below ground and have trouble finding, have they been socialised proberly as pups? ruined by entered to younng? so can they find or a case of dont want to find? your thoughts plz.

[.terrier man. 193]

[Elmer Fudd 2011 39]

12 bore needed

[WILF 46,917]

Was there something to find?

[king squirrel 53]

do you take a 100% dog with you to make sure theres nothing home and does it find in smaller earths alright a bit more info would be a bit more help atb ks

[grafter-man 43]

your thoughts on dogs that are adults not pups, that are well entered below ground and have trouble finding, have they been socialised proberly as pups? ruined by entered to younng? so can they find or a case of dont want to find? your thoughts plz.

Sometimes the dog is just OUT-RIGHT a cull as it should be known that there are culls in just about every litter born while they may have excellent working siblings in the same litter. (Although the peddlers will tell you their killers produce nothing but hardcore workers and nothing less!) Very true, if a young one takes too much stick at a young or tender age it could ruin him/her. I have seen alot of people who had no buisness at all owning a working terrier (or any breed or type for that matter),they get good prospects from proven working parents that never put a bad foot forward, and they let ignorance, stupidity, or ego ruin the young terrier before his/her time has even come to begin to start them. I have seen a few that take the dog home stuff him/her in the kennel, never socialize with the pup, they didn't care for the pup properly,(some were not fed and watered on a regular basis, were eat up with parasites, (internal (worms etc.) as well as external (fleas, ticks, mites, etc.), and was forced to lay in their own shite and p!ss because their owner was too lazy to clean the kennel out or just didnt care, and at a tender age or before it mature fully, they take the pup to a quarry that beats the shite out of them, and wonder why the pup quit, or they blame the breeder or the sire and dam to the litter. It makes one who is concerned about the well being of their line and who are more concerned about proper placement than the euro or dollar very cautious about who gets anything down from their line. I see alot of other craziness these days in our once honest gentleman's sport that has become poison to these little dogs and our beloved sport. PEDDLERS, PEDDLERS, PEDDLERS!!!! Let me say that I think it's stupid to pay big money for terrier pups because I stated above there are culls in about every litter born, and most who sale terriers for profit are nothing more than peddlers who will sale terriers pups for big money and the parents never worked more than a rat in its whole life (all it takes for them is a website, a few message board accounts to hype their never worked killers to the best worker/producers of modern times, and idiots that have more money than brains or people who just dont have a clue pay big money. I came across a website kennel not long ago that was selling pups for a whopping $1000.00 dollars each!!) PURE RUBBISH! Let me just say that I agree that the finding and will to stay is the most important traits a working terrier can display. Without finding ability even if caused by the above explained, you are wasting your time and money and would have better luck picking up a shitzu at a local shelter and taking it to the bush. Ha! Ha! My advice to you my friend if you own a terrier that is displaying the traits you described above is: use the terrier for back-fill or give it to a pet home with a spay agreement, find someone who is honestly working their line of terriers, (steer clear of all website kennels!!!) get out with them to make as many digs as possible and witness for yourself what the sire and dam are capable of and assure they are truly workers and will fill your needs, aquire a pup from their breedings with the terriers you saw work, (if the breeder realizes you want a terrier for the right reasons and he/she is sincere about his line of terriers and our sport, then most will gift a pup to you or sale you one for a very fair price, make sure the young one is entered correctly, either introduce the pup to quarry that is not very formidable until he/she is properly aged or make sure the young prospect doesn't take too much stick at a tender age, the best rule to apply is ALWAYS take the im-matture or young ones away wanting more, when a pup is introduced to quarry it should be a confidence builder, and not break them down in any way. After the terrier has properly matured (and every terrier will mature at different rates and ages, just because one terrier is fully mature and ready for stick at 18 months doesnt mean the next one will) then and only then it is all about the proving ground and time to find out just what you are feeding. If you have followed the common sense rules described above and the terrier still wont work proper you will know for a fact that the terrier quitting, not displaying hunt drive, or not finding was in no way your fault,just not meant to be as you did you part 110%. just my take, sorry for the rambling but I simply cannot stomach peddlers, or anyone who will sale a terrier under false claims etc.. cheers lads!!

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

Good reply there, and got a lot off your chest by the sound of it. lol. I think the 'always walk away leaving them wanting more' is the best part to entering,it has worked with the young dogs I've introduced to work. of course it has to be in them to 'want more' though.

[strongbow 149]

Was there something to find?

 

 

do you take a 100% dog with you to make sure theres nothing home and does it find in smaller earths alright a bit more info would be a bit more help atb ks

not talking about 1 cert dog iam talking about terriers in general, the years ive worked terriers never have i had 1 that couldnt find. ive had plenty that have failed for other reasons but not because they couldnt use their nose, from pups they are treated like 1 of the family not locked away til they are 14or 15 months, heard many say "that dog cant find" on a earth when they should be saying "doesnt want to find" just wanted some other views on this.

[strongbow 149]

your thoughts on dogs that are adults not pups, that are well entered below ground and have trouble finding, have they been socialised proberly as pups? ruined by entered to younng? so can they find or a case of dont want to find? your thoughts plz.

Sometimes the dog is just OUT-RIGHT a cull as it should be known that there are culls in just about every litter born while they may have excellent working siblings in the same litter. (Although the peddlers will tell you their killers produce nothing but hardcore workers and nothing less!) Very true, if a young one takes too much stick at a young or tender age it could ruin him/her. I have seen alot of people who had no buisness at all owning a working terrier (or any breed or type for that matter),they get good prospects from proven working parents that never put a bad foot forward, and they let ignorance, stupidity, or ego ruin the young terrier before his/her time has even come to begin to start them. I have seen a few that take the dog home stuff him/her in the kennel, never socialize with the pup, they didn't care for the pup properly,(some were not fed and watered on a regular basis, were eat up with parasites, (internal (worms etc.) as well as external (fleas, ticks, mites, etc.), and was forced to lay in their own shite and p!ss because their owner was too lazy to clean the kennel out or just didnt care, and at a tender age or before it mature fully, they take the pup to a quarry that beats the shite out of them, and wonder why the pup quit, or they blame the breeder or the sire and dam to the litter. It makes one who is concerned about the well being of their line and who are more concerned about proper placement than the euro or dollar very cautious about who gets anything down from their line. I see alot of other craziness these days in our once honest gentleman's sport that has become poison to these little dogs and our beloved sport. PEDDLERS, PEDDLERS, PEDDLERS!!!! Let me say that I think it's stupid to pay big money for terrier pups because I stated above there are culls in about every litter born, and most who sale terriers for profit are nothing more than peddlers who will sale terriers pups for big money and the parents never worked more than a rat in its whole life (all it takes for them is a website, a few message board accounts to hype their never worked killers to the best worker/producers of modern times, and idiots that have more money than brains or people who just dont have a clue pay big money. I came across a website kennel not long ago that was selling pups for a whopping $1000.00 dollars each!!) PURE RUBBISH! Let me just say that I agree that the finding and will to stay is the most important traits a working terrier can display. Without finding ability even if caused by the above explained, you are wasting your time and money and would have better luck picking up a shitzu at a local shelter and taking it to the bush. Ha! Ha! My advice to you my friend if you own a terrier that is displaying the traits you described above is: use the terrier for back-fill or give it to a pet home with a spay agreement, find someone who is honestly working their line of terriers, (steer clear of all website kennels!!!) get out with them to make as many digs as possible and witness for yourself what the sire and dam are capable of and assure they are truly workers and will fill your needs, aquire a pup from their breedings with the terriers you saw work, (if the breeder realizes you want a terrier for the right reasons and he/she is sincere about his line of terriers and our sport, then most will gift a pup to you or sale you one for a very fair price, make sure the young one is entered correctly, either introduce the pup to quarry that is not very formidable until he/she is properly aged or make sure the young prospect doesn't take too much stick at a tender age, the best rule to apply is ALWAYS take the im-matture or young ones away wanting more, when a pup is introduced to quarry it should be a confidence builder, and not break them down in any way. After the terrier has properly matured (and every terrier will mature at different rates and ages, just because one terrier is fully mature and ready for stick at 18 months doesnt mean the next one will) then and only then it is all about the proving ground and time to find out just what you are feeding. If you have followed the common sense rules described above and the terrier still wont work proper you will know for a fact that the terrier quitting, not displaying hunt drive, or not finding was in no way your fault,just not meant to be as you did you part 110%. just my take, sorry for the rambling but I simply cannot stomach peddlers, or anyone who will sale a terrier under false claims etc.. cheers lads!!

good post mate Edited May 10, 2011 by strongbow

[dev 227]

this is an interesting thread. i have seen young dogs who find ok but after a bit of a battle,when the quarry has managed to get away from the dog, the keen youngster starts charging about the earth like a steam train not taking time to use his nose hoping to bump into his foe but fails .sometimes it just take's a bit of time and experiance to get him to use his head and nose properly.but other time's it's simply because he doesn't want to find again.

[tinytiger 839]

worst of the lot is a dog that goes in and barks at nothing

[fat man 4,741]

worst of the lot is a dog that goes in and barks at nothing

Had a very hard dig to a dog belonging to a friend,and when we broke through after nearly 3 hours the dog was sounding at a bed of grass,to say i was pissed of would be an understatement.The dog in question had been dug to a few times and continued to false mark for his owner who eventually got rid of him.

[king squirrel 53]

Was there something to find?

 

 

do you take a 100% dog with you to make sure theres nothing home and does it find in smaller earths alright a bit more info would be a bit more help atb ks

not talking about 1 cert dog iam talking about terriers in general, the years ive worked terriers never have i had 1 that couldnt find. ive had plenty that have failed for other reasons but not because they couldnt use their nose, from pups they are treated like 1 of the family not locked away til they are 14or 15 months, heard many say "that dog cant find" on a earth when they should be saying "doesnt want to find" just wanted some other views on this.

i think it is a case of some being entered to young and this goes for older dogs to they have had a hard dig that as made them very weary of the quarry and either bay on scent or will not get up close as some one said earlier we also broke through to a bitch that was baying at a ball of hay just wouldnt go through it drop another dog in and went through and a couple of foot further quarry was there the bitch just never had the comitment to go through either that or she new what was the otherside ps bitch no longer with us she died in a terrible accident atb ks

[grafter-man 43]

Was there something to find?

 

 

do you take a 100% dog with you to make sure theres nothing home and does it find in smaller earths alright a bit more info would be a bit more help atb ks

not talking about 1 cert dog iam talking about terriers in general, the years ive worked terriers never have i had 1 that couldnt find. ive had plenty that have failed for other reasons but not because they couldnt use their nose, from pups they are treated like 1 of the family not locked away til they are 14or 15 months, heard many say "that dog cant find" on a earth when they should be saying "doesnt want to find" just wanted some other views on this.

this goes for older dogs to they have had a hard dig that as made them very weary of the quarry and either bay on scent or will not get up close as some one said earlier we also broke through to a bitch that was baying at a ball of hay just wouldnt go through it drop another dog in and went through and a couple of foot further quarry was there the bitch just never had the comitment to go through either that or she new what was the otherside ps bitch no longer with us she died in a terrible accident atb ks

Would you consider this the same as a quitting, cowardly, cur? I would associate the two together.

Might as well come on out of the sett, it is scared to work from the sounds of it same as quitting in my eyes. Reason enough for me to add a little extra lead to their diet. You made the right choice mate, can't say I'd feed that terrier myself. Although I know of at least two members here that would have bred this terrier to protect their investments or to prevent spending anymore money. These types do make a wonderful backfill though. Ha! Ha! all the bbest.

[Ideation 8,216]

"these types do make a wonderful backfill though. Ha Ha!"

 

To be fair even if the dog is a quitter or a failure it still deserves a bit of respect in it's death, and how come people always need to 'prove' themselves as 'proper' terrier men by mentioning culling as often as they can cram it in any one thread?

 

Just adding fuel on a fire imo.