Are our laws strong enough

[Paid 935]

I'm all for prisons paying there own way.

 

We pay people good money to fish condoms and unwanted alligators out of sewage plants, so why not build prisons on sewage plants, and have them do the fun work.

 

Could work for other things too, recycle centres ect.

[scothunter 12,609]

Only one i will comment on, as i work in a school, with the group of children there who would be getting the cane. It wouldnt work and would be a bad idea.

nice to see a reply with an opinion i would be interested in the way you feel they should be treated and how you would go about giving them discipline

mike

 

as a person who works with problem children i am still waiting for your response on how you feel we could bring these children back into the fold

what form of discipline can or do you give when as you said you have been threatened your self

and even to the point that some when confronted would stab you and think nothing of it as that's the way they were brought up

we have no choice to accept that some of these children have been both physically and mentally abused

 

well taking thier skin of thier backs with a birch aint gonna make them trust you thats for sure.im no child psycologist so really couldnt give a proffesional answer.however id say trust and actually finding out what is going onj in the kids head.i mean take those bulger kids.what the f**k happened in those kids lifes to make them do that.something seriously wrong there and a fact that was conviently overlooked by the press and public.burrying our heads in the sand and calling them evil gave them the image of being not human.instead of actually trying to find out why.i hate to say this aswell,but someday that will happen again.

[keeper 51 78]

I'm all for prisons paying there own way.

 

We pay people good money to fish condoms and unwanted alligators out of sewage plants, so why not build prisons on sewage plants, and have them do the fun work.

 

Could work for other things too, recycle centres ect.

 

Thanks for your input

 

how about adopting this

 

A chain gang is a group of prisoners chained together to perform menial or physically challenging work, such as mining or timber collecting, as a form of punishment. Such punishment might include building roads, digging ditches or chipping stone. This system existed primarily in the southern parts of the United States, and by 1955 had been phased out nationwide, with Georgia the last state to abandon the practice.^[1] Chain gangs were reintroduced by a few states during the "get tough on crime" 1990s, with Alabama being the first state to revive them in 1995. The experiment ended after about one year in all states except Arizona,^[2] where in Maricopa County

 

please note

 

inmates can still volunteer for a chain gang to earn credit toward a high school diploma or avoid disciplinary lockdowns for rule infractions.^[3]

Edited May 7, 2011 by keeper 51

[Ideation 8,216]

Re the caning - keeper i put this - not sure if you missed it -

 

Right r.e caning in school. The only children it would really inspire fear in, are those who could be kept in line with less draconian measures. Those who you would really want it to have an effect on, it wouldn't. Sure, you might hurt them in the short term, but you'll just lose them into society and need to deal with them at a later stage at greater cost. It would be used as a cover for poor teaching, any one questioning the system or teaching would get a smack. Violence breeds violence. There is also the fact that often there ARE real under lying problems, and its not just something you can label as lefty hand wringing nursemaid society stuff. An example would be, kid kicks off in class, has an issue with authority, is very angry, often violent, so you could cane it out of him? But when you actually hear the kids story (pretty tough to get) it turns out the kid has been sexually abused for years by a foster brother. It's just a poor substitute for a better system. What that is mind, i don't know.

 

 

Now the death penalty etc etc etc.

 

All i'm saying is i dont trust one bit the kind of folk who would be making decisions.

 

O yes - sure i'd shoot all peados, rapists etc.

 

But murder? Terrorism? etc etc etc - drugs? Where do you draw the line, all of these are subjective. I.e in some countries you smoke a spliff and get caught and they kill you. f**k THAT. Same if some guy rapes your daughter, or something, but absolutely zero proof, and you take him out, then you die. Terrorist? Well, argue with the government and find yourself labeled as such, and get killed, so your quiet.

 

f**k making laws more draconian.

 

'Disobedience is mans original virtue, it is through disobedience that progress is made'

 

How about we introduce 'decency and intelligence / common sense' tests for anyone thinking of having and raising a child, that was we cut the population, save the planet, drop taxes etc, and probably get less law breakers and scum. ?

[blan89 159]

 

 

What about prisons paying for themselves, down near here we have a prison farm, they are made to work the farm, and the money goes into running the prison, including the bit that they cant let folk out of.

 

 

i think that would soon turn into prisons making profit,so more 'criminals'= more profits for them.

which imo would lead to them inciting crimes as well as increasing sentences for petty crimes.

[Ideation 8,216]

That's a good point, how about just cost cutting, i.e, no profit, but all prison food, power etc produced by inmates? So no cash and so less chance of private companies taking over prisons and using them to make themselves rich.

[danw 1,748]

I'm all for prisons paying there own way.

 

We pay people good money to fish condoms and unwanted alligators out of sewage plants, so why not build prisons on sewage plants, and have them do the fun work.

 

Could work for other things too, recycle centres ect.

 

 

I'm all for that so long as it doesn't put an honest man out of work :thumbs:

[Ideation 8,216]

I'm all for prisons paying there own way.

 

We pay people good money to fish condoms and unwanted alligators out of sewage plants, so why not build prisons on sewage plants, and have them do the fun work.

 

Could work for other things too, recycle centres ect.

 

 

I'm all for that so long as it doesn't put an honest man out of work :thumbs:

 

 

Thats something else i was thinking, with the rate of unemployment we have, giving all the menial jobs to the cons may not be best practice.

[smithie 2,443]

You guys all for hanging, and the death penalty, you must REALLy have a lot more faith in governments than i have. Cos from where i am standing the death penalty usually does f**k all to deter crimes, but can be used to mop up folk the government does not want. Remember once you have the death penalty, its up to them what they stick it on.

 

if a person commits murder and is sentenced to death and this carried you can be sure he will not commit this offence again

it would appear that your are in the minority in your feelings about this

and its good that your stance is being put forward in this discussion as i am sure other people feel this way

 

A November 2009 television survey showed that 70% favoured reinstating the death penalty for at least one of the following crimes: armed robbery, rape, crimes related to paedophilia, terrorism, adult murder, child murder, child rape, treason, child abuse, or kidnapping. However, respondents only favoured capital punishment for adult murder, the polling question asked by other organisations such as Gallup, by small majorities or pluralities: overall, 51% favoured the death penalty for adult murder, while 56% in Wales did, 55% in Scotland, and only 49% in England.^[36]

 

^{as you can see this includes child abuse}

 

 

 

it used to be debated in parliment every 3 years,and everytime it came round less and less voted for it.it will never be brought back in the uk.f**k we wont even extradite a prisoner to another country if they face the death penality.

 

 

i think your wrong and it will come back ... but as sharia law. im posative the white english will one day be the minoraty and as we vote for what we want we as the white english will not have the majority vote but the english born muslim will and sharia law will be here.. hense the death penalty..

 

then it will be a bad thing as i dont imagain it will be a concistant sytem..

 

this isnt a racist rant but how i personaly see the future of our land going wether we like it or not..

[keeper 51 78]

Re the caning - keeper i put this - not sure if you missed it -

 

Right r.e caning in school. The only children it would really inspire fear in, are those who could be kept in line with less draconian measures. Those who you would really want it to have an effect on, it wouldn't. Sure, you might hurt them in the short term, but you'll just lose them into society and need to deal with them at a later stage at greater cost. It would be used as a cover for poor teaching, any one questioning the system or teaching would get a smack. Violence breeds violence. There is also the fact that often there ARE real under lying problems, and its not just something you can label as lefty hand wringing nursemaid society stuff. An example would be, kid kicks off in class, has an issue with authority, is very angry, often violent, so you could cane it out of him? But when you actually hear the kids story (pretty tough to get) it turns out the kid has been sexually abused for years by a foster brother. It's just a poor substitute for a better system. What that is mind, i don't know.

 

 

Now the death penalty etc etc etc.

 

All i'm saying is i dont trust one bit the kind of folk who would be making decisions.

 

O yes - sure i'd shoot all peados, rapists etc.

 

But murder? Terrorism? etc etc etc - drugs? Where do you draw the line, all of these are subjective. I.e in some countries you smoke a spliff and get caught and they kill you. f**k THAT. Same if some guy rapes your daughter, or something, but absolutely zero proof, and you take him out, then you die. Terrorist? Well, argue with the government and find yourself labeled as such, and get killed, so your quiet.

 

f**k making laws more draconian.

 

'Disobedience is mans original virtue, it is through disobedience that progress is made'

 

How about we introduce 'decency and intelligence / common sense' tests for anyone thinking of having and raising a child, that was we cut the population, save the planet, drop taxes etc, and probably get less law breakers and scum. ?

sorry mate missed your post 29

thanks for your honest reply

in your first paragraph the fear of caning you say that the only ones it would affect would be the ones that could be kept under control with less draconian measures as such these pupils

would have nothing to fear but fear itself

 

however you feel it may have a short term affect on the more rowdy pupils and the cost to remedy these issues at a later date we then go into poor teaching and rightly so

when as a youngster you were sent for caning the first question why have you been sent to me what have you done wrong after you gave your reasons punishment was given

in my time to the hands with a cane the more serious the case the worse the pain inflicted from a tap on the hand to a full blown 6 strokes 3 on each hand delivered with venom

did it hurt yes it fecking hurt

this was normally given if you had been violent ( violence met with violence ) if you were stupid enough to get sent a second or third time your parents were asked to come in

and discuss your problems here we go again another hammering when you got home

i am not saying it was the right way but i can assure it cured some and the class room was a place you kept your mouth shut and got on with your work ( a safe place ) for all

including the teaching staff a far cry away from today

i would think that amongst them there were children like you have today who were abused

but i am certain that we had kids who could not afford shoes or clothes and lived off hand me downs and were taken the piss out of kids who's only good meal of there day

was their school meal

i find it hard to feel sorry for a lot of the kids today we had to wear a school uniform unless you could not afford it the school would then ask all the parents to bring any old

uniforms to give to the kids who could not afford them the same with daps and shorts for sports

 

Yea life's a shit isn't it kids have never been understood but i feel before this country became soft you just sucked it in on got on with what life delt you

rant over

i also admit to having no answers to what can be done but wish you all the best in your endeavors :notworthy:

Edited May 7, 2011 by keeper 51

[blan89 159]

That's a good point, how about just cost cutting, i.e, no profit, but all prison food, power etc produced by inmates? So no cash and so less chance of private companies taking over prisons and using them to make themselves rich.

 

I think that may be walking a fine line,imo prisons should be a financial burden on the government that way keeping people out (through education,fair wages etc) will be an investment not grooming people to get sent down.

 

heres an interesting video on the subject

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAntiTerrorist#p/u/9/ofZS1gVaDcI

[scothunter 12,609]

You guys all for hanging, and the death penalty, you must REALLy have a lot more faith in governments than i have. Cos from where i am standing the death penalty usually does f**k all to deter crimes, but can be used to mop up folk the government does not want. Remember once you have the death penalty, its up to them what they stick it on.

 

if a person commits murder and is sentenced to death and this carried you can be sure he will not commit this offence again

it would appear that your are in the minority in your feelings about this

and its good that your stance is being put forward in this discussion as i am sure other people feel this way

 

A November 2009 television survey showed that 70% favoured reinstating the death penalty for at least one of the following crimes: armed robbery, rape, crimes related to paedophilia, terrorism, adult murder, child murder, child rape, treason, child abuse, or kidnapping. However, respondents only favoured capital punishment for adult murder, the polling question asked by other organisations such as Gallup, by small majorities or pluralities: overall, 51% favoured the death penalty for adult murder, while 56% in Wales did, 55% in Scotland, and only 49% in England.^[36]

 

^{as you can see this includes child abuse}

 

 

 

it used to be debated in parliment every 3 years,and everytime it came round less and less voted for it.it will never be brought back in the uk.f**k we wont even extradite a prisoner to another country if they face the death penality.

 

 

i think your wrong and it will come back ... but as sharia law. im posative the white english will one day be the minoraty and as we vote for what we want we as the white english will not have the majority vote but the english born muslim will and sharia law will be here.. hense the death penalty..

 

then it will be a bad thing as i dont imagain it will be a concistant sytem..

 

this isnt a racist rant but how i personaly see the future of our land going wether we like it or not..

 

sharia law in the uk never mate.yea we are gettig shafted by immigration and bending over to help every imigrant that comes here,but to introduce that law here wuld finally be the straw that broke the camels back.i would invisage a race war.

[littletimmy 71]

I think we have enough shitty laws as there is. If you want to be overriden with control and bullshit laws/rules join the fkn army

[scothunter 12,609]

I think we have enough shitty laws as there is. If you want to be overriden with control and bullshit laws/rules join the fkn army

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

It's hard to say about the Death penalty because when it comes nonce case child killers, or people that commit unprovoked murders, I think most would say they should be put to death as there isn't really anything you can do with people like that, and they don't really deserve anything other than death.

 

I think working on society would be a better idea before we re-introduced capital punishment though. Once we've got that as good as we can get it, then we could re-introduce capital punishment because no one has got an excuse then.

 

Look at the USA, there's parts of their society that are absolutely impoverished, where the people have no sort of bright outlook on life. The death penalty does not stop them because they just don't give a f*ck, if they worked on why people feel that way then maybe they wouldn't have the problem in the first place? Just look at the murder rate over there, it's a joke, yet they have the death penalty as a deterrent.

 

I doubt they will work on the poorer sections of society in the USA though, because privately run Prisons in the USA are raking in massive amounts of cash whenever they incarcerate someone. Apparently America has more people imprisoned than any other country! They make out they're putting the bad guys away (which in some cases is true) but I'd bet a £pound to a penny that the vast majority of those locked away are from poorer backgrounds, who really wouldn't be that bad had they had the opportunity in life, and I expect to see the same thing happen over here.

 

If you keep the poor, poor and desperate enough to commit crime, then Profiteering from putting people in prison will make you a lot of money.