deerhound crosses

[bolio 49]

Speaking purely from a coursing point of view I would be surprised if anyone made a judgment on the saluki versus deerhound debate based upon the running of hares only on the deerhounds home turf, the heather. To make a fair comparison would require running on both heather and on that stoney desert for which the saluki has evolved.

The best test of coursing ability that I've seen in these islands has been the Forley cup, run on open fenland. Nowhere in the rules did it state that any particular type of cross must be used so the comp was open to all.

I think it's significant that every club championship winner, (the requirement for entry into the Forley cup finals day) was a saluki cross. If anyone had a deerhound cross, or any other, that was good enough there was nothing to stop them from knocking out the saluki crosses on the way to the finals.

Fashion may apply in the show ring but it has nothing to do with the match dog scene. It's all about winning. If someone thought he could win a best of three match with a penguin then that's what he'd show up with.

[mistwalker 0]

Fashion may apply in the show ring but it has nothing to do with the match dog scene. It's all about winning. If someone thought he could win a best of three match with a penguin then that's what he'd show up with. 

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Now THAT, I'd pay to see :11: :11: :11:

[Guest mush]

There have never been that many deerhounds about and fewer still that work, although many people claim that any rubbish with a rough coat is a deerhound cross so it's much harder to get good dogs to start a breeding line than it is with the saluki

same can be said about finding a good saluki stud thats worked.

[Guest mush]

Fashion may apply in the show ring but it has nothing to do with the match dog scene. It's all about winning. If someone thought he could win a best of three match with a penguin then that's what he'd show up with. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

spot on

[Guest Nightwalker]

Fashion has a lot to do with lurchers - look at what Plummer and Hancock did with merle's and beardie crosses and look at the rise of the bull x - you dont need all that muscle to kill a fox that weigh's on average 12-14lbs.

 

Line breeding and good conditioning has led the saluki X to conquer the match field, but that could change if breeders got busy with other types of dog but simply no-one is doing this at the moment. The single best hare killer I have ever seen run was a borzoi cross. I have had my share of saluki Xs (I bought my first two pups in 1975 - one was a bullx and the other a saluki x) but no-one breeds borzoi crosses anymore and no-one breeds deerhound crosses for competetive coursing at the moment, the fact that no-one is doing it at the moment doesnt mean that it cant be done.

[Guest HAWKEYE]

Very strangely I seen a dog yesterday that was 1st cross bozoi...and .....saluki..Looked nice but looks never killed a hare...The owner assured me that if they hadnt been out of fashion at this particular time, It probably would have been half cross deerhound...

[Guest baldie]

I wonder how easy it will be to breed a good "fen" dog in the future, using saluki blood. All the big coursing men round me [manor lurcher club] have jacked, and sold their dogs, imo, the fen dog will soon be just a memory people dont look twice at a deerhound cross, like they do a fen dog or bull cross, i know, i,ve got one, the deerhound cross is coming back, slowly but surely, and unlike a saluki, it will come back to its name :11:

[Guest knocavoeboy]

Very strangely I seen a dog yesterday that was 1st cross bozoi...and .....saluki..Looked nice but looks never killed a hare...The owner assured me that if they hadnt been out of fashion at this particular time, It probably would have been half cross deerhound... 

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lad i bought my lurcher bitch from has just got a borzoi cross greyhound. its 14 mths and 30 inches at the shoulder already hes just starting it in the lamp.

[doxhope 2]

Only ever seen one borzoi cross, a bitch

She was one hell of a fox dog, decent lamper and left a scar on the face of every dog in Ashington during the 1980's

[pockets 0]

Speaking purely from a coursing point of view I would be surprised if anyone made a judgment on the saluki versus deerhound debate based upon the running of hares only on the deerhounds home turf, the heather. To make a fair comparison would require running on both heather and on that stoney desert for which the saluki has evolved.

The best test of coursing ability that I've seen in these islands has been the Forley cup, run on open fenland. Nowhere in the rules did it state that any particular type of cross must be used so the comp was open to all.

I think it's significant that every club championship winner, (the requirement for entry into the Forley cup finals day) was a saluki cross. If anyone had a deerhound cross, or any other, that was good enough there was nothing to stop them from knocking out the saluki crosses on the way to the finals.

Fashion may apply in the show ring but it has nothing to do with the match dog scene. It's all about winning. If someone thought he could win a best of three match with a penguin then that's what he'd show up with. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good game fella and a fair point i think

[Guest mush]

Fashion has a lot to do with lurchers - look at what Plummer and Hancock did with merle's and beardie crosses and look at the rise of the bull x - you dont need all that muscle to kill a fox that weigh's on average 12-14lbs.

 

Line breeding and good conditioning has led the saluki X to conquer the match field, but that could change if breeders got busy with other types of dog but simply no-one is doing this at the moment. The single best hare killer I have ever seen run was a borzoi cross. I have had my share of saluki Xs (I bought my first two pups in 1975 - one was a bullx and the other a saluki x) but no-one breeds borzoi crosses anymore and no-one breeds deerhound crosses for competetive coursing at the moment, the fact that no-one is doing it at the moment doesnt mean that it cant be done.

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Its good that you like your type of cross breed but get real its not the muscle that people are after when they get a bull cross they want a dog that you can almost guarantee will take fox and not just run besides it, their also after the determination.

As for salukis and saluki crosses its not down to conditioning if you took a unfit saluki and a unfit deerhound ( not that you would want to) the saluki would still come out the winner, look at the USA whats one of the top pedigree coursing dogs the saluki, whats not the deerhound.

[Guest mush]

Fashion has a lot to do with lurchers - look at what Plummer and Hancock did with merle's and beardie crosses and look at the rise of the bull x - you dont need all that muscle to kill a fox that weigh's on average 12-14lbs.

 

Line breeding and good conditioning has led the saluki X to conquer the match field, but that could change if breeders got busy with other types of dog but simply no-one is doing this at the moment. The single best hare killer I have ever seen run was a borzoi cross. I have had my share of saluki Xs (I bought my first two pups in 1975 - one was a bullx and the other a saluki x) but no-one breeds borzoi crosses anymore and no-one breeds deerhound crosses for competetive coursing at the moment, the fact that no-one is doing it at the moment doesnt mean that it cant be done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its good that you like your type of cross breed but get real its not the muscle that people are after when they get a bull cross they want a dog that you can almost guarantee will take fox and not just run besides it, their also after the determination.

As for salukis and saluki crosses its not down to conditioning if you took a unfit saluki and a unfit deerhound ( not that you would want to) the saluki would still come out the winner, look at the USA whats one of the top pedigree coursing dogs the saluki, whats not the deerhound.

[bolio 49]

"Fashion has a lot to do with lurchers - look at what Plummer and Hancock did with merle's and beardie crosses"

 

Absolutely nothing on the coursing field!

 

The first was a writer, the second a chicken farmer who switched to farming colly cross lurchers largely for the show brigade.

Salukis have a head start in the coursing stakes by several thousand years and if some match men are getting rid of their dogs it's because they can no longer course on the open land without fear of having their motor confiscated, not because they've discovered another type of dog that performs better.

 

As for bull crosses for foxing, although it may well be possible on paper, to formulate a theory of breeding types that could "kill a fox", in reality the diehard wants a dog that, if it comes to that, will try just as hard for his fifth fox of the day or night as the first, even though he may have swelling and painful wounds from the first. The game bred bull is the best bet for that scenario.

 

I think in the USA the situation is slightly different to the UK as the dogs they have with deerhound blood are descended not from show bred dogs, nor even show bred dogs that may have been worked like over here, but from early working deerhounds that were introduced by the settlers 200 years ago. Dogs like those used by general Custer and others.

 

Kye???

[Guest baldie]

Very good thread this.The coursing men have got rid of their dogs, and packed up near me for that very reason bolio, they were legal coursers[most of the time], and wont risk it anymore, they are the real casualties of the ban, i suppose they arent willing to poke about like us, just having the odd go here and there.I also find it very interesting, that the americans, and also the aussies favour deerhound/greyhound crosses above all else for the larger game they hunt, like coyotes and roo,s in oz, there must be a reason for this, when they have so much good bull blood available, its speed probarbly?

[bolio 49]

Well yes Baldie I suppose you need to catch it to kill it... :11: .........and in those countries they've bred off the type of dog that's proved capable of the job on that terrain over many years. In the UK foxes are never coursed over much of a run, (with lurchers) just bolted from earth or cover to the closest safe haven, more cover usually. So you want a dog that'll commit itself all out cos it's not going to get a second chance. From what we read of those coyotes they'll run faster for far longer and then fight harder if they're caught. There's not so many hedgerows or copses on yonder prairie. :search: