Retrieving.............or lack of it

[stormyboy 1,352]

Have a 15 week old Deerhound/Greyhound X Wheaten/Greyhound, will chase after things, but refuses to bring them back, gives the object a munch and shake, but just drops it and runs back to me.

Is it her breeding, her age, have tried all sorts, except putting her on a long lead, chances she will drop it too, and be dragged back enpty mouthed.

 

 

There's a number of things going on here , she's young, and she wont be experiencing much prey drive yet, but i would take the retrieve object out, when your out with her and just bounce it in your hand to get her interest going, just 5 mins few times a day, tease her with it, this will build up her drive for the object and at the same time her interest in you which is more important in my mind,

After a few days teasing her , show her , tease her then put it down to her still holding it , let her tug on it , praise her loads, then when shes tugging like f**k on it , let her have it, praise her again, let her do what she wants with it , dont take it from her till shes finished with it, and do it again , the important thing is for her to see YOU and the object as the best thing since sliced bread, what you try to achieve is the assocation in the dogs mind of a retrieve object and you as one and when you throw something the dog feels compelled to retrieve, sometimes dont even throw it , just let the mutt tug on it and always let her win , she will start bringing it back to you to play again, thats when the association has clicked in , bit long winded bud but best of luck with her,,

 

"Let her tug on it",recipe for hard mouth. "let her have it",she wins. "let her do what she wants with it",she wins. dont take it from her till shes finished with it",she wins. "do it again",she wins."Just let the mutt tug on it and ALWAYS LET HER WIN".

She will have the upper hand.Training is a matter of imposing your will on the dog,which must respect you as top dog. A dog will not retrieve,or obey any other command for that matter,to a subordinate,which is how the dog will see you if allowed to do as it pleases.

Good luck.

 

 

 

"

[Casso 1,261]

Have a 15 week old Deerhound/Greyhound X Wheaten/Greyhound, will chase after things, but refuses to bring them back, gives the object a munch and shake, but just drops it and runs back to me.

Is it her breeding, her age, have tried all sorts, except putting her on a long lead, chances she will drop it too, and be dragged back enpty mouthed.

 

 

There's a number of things going on here , she's young, and she wont be experiencing much prey drive yet, but i would take the retrieve object out, when your out with her and just bounce it in your hand to get her interest going, just 5 mins few times a day, tease her with it, this will build up her drive for the object and at the same time her interest in you which is more important in my mind,

After a few days teasing her , show her , tease her then put it down to her still holding it , let her tug on it , praise her loads, then when shes tugging like f**k on it , let her have it, praise her again, let her do what she wants with it , dont take it from her till shes finished with it, and do it again , the important thing is for her to see YOU and the object as the best thing since sliced bread, what you try to achieve is the assocation in the dogs mind of a retrieve object and you as one and when you throw something the dog feels compelled to retrieve, sometimes dont even throw it , just let the mutt tug on it and always let her win , she will start bringing it back to you to play again, thats when the association has clicked in , bit long winded bud but best of luck with her,,

 

"Let her tug on it",recipe for hard mouth. "let her have it",she wins. "let her do what she wants with it",she wins. dont take it from her till shes finished with it",she wins. "do it again",she wins."Just let the mutt tug on it and ALWAYS LET HER WIN".

She will have the upper hand.Training is a matter of imposing your will on the dog,which must respect you as top dog. A dog will not retrieve,or obey any other command for that matter,to a subordinate,which is how the dog will see you if allowed to do as it pleases.

Good luck.

 

 

its not a competition where you have to win anything, whats with all the winning shit , your dog dont understand any of that stuff, your putting human thoughts into a canine mind,

What upper hand, by the dog getting the object and feeling good with herself in your company , is positive association, that works,

training is not about imposing anything, is about getting the dog to understand your comands, full stop

Your hung up on dominance, i tried it as a kid with dogs with average results, my father trained the same way ,but i knew there had to be a better way, a way that appealed to the nature of canines, and if a dog feels good round you, his more likely to pay attention to what your telling him ,

Im sure you read all the books and know all about dogs and what other people are telling you about them,,but the most important thing ive ever learnt was that canines are social by nature , they are pack animals , happly living with people without dominance , once you understand what they really need,,

For that record bud, i have 2 dogs at the min, both retrieve , they take turns watching the other fetch , they dont run till i tell them, when i walk the dog , i tell him to go get me a stick and we'llplay , he goes off gets me a stick , he will either sit , down, speak, turn round, high 5 me or go in the direction im pointing ,just for me to throw the stick for him, best of luck bud,,

 

"

[hellyer189 93]

See my dog will bring toys and leave them when o say but is more reluctant to give up his game someone told me to put a bunny skin over a bottle

[J Darcy 5,871]

Shes still really young give her time try giving her say a ball and then immediately taking it out her mouth and give a tasty high value treat like cheese and then eventually she should get the idea.That if she brings you something she gets a good thing back and eventually you can drop the treats

 

I would never, ever get food involved with retrieving. All that will happen is that the dog will forget the retreive and concentrate on the food, start dropping short, then stop altogether. JMO..

[stormyboy 1,352]

Have a 15 week old Deerhound/Greyhound X Wheaten/Greyhound, will chase after things, but refuses to bring them back, gives the object a munch and shake, but just drops it and runs back to me.

Is it her breeding, her age, have tried all sorts, except putting her on a long lead, chances she will drop it too, and be dragged back enpty mouthed.

 

 

There's a number of things going on here , she's young, and she wont be experiencing much prey drive yet, but i would take the retrieve object out, when your out with her and just bounce it in your hand to get her interest going, just 5 mins few times a day, tease her with it, this will build up her drive for the object and at the same time her interest in you which is more important in my mind,

After a few days teasing her , show her , tease her then put it down to her still holding it , let her tug on it , praise her loads, then when shes tugging like f**k on it , let her have it, praise her again, let her do what she wants with it , dont take it from her till shes finished with it, and do it again , the important thing is for her to see YOU and the object as the best thing since sliced bread, what you try to achieve is the assocation in the dogs mind of a retrieve object and you as one and when you throw something the dog feels compelled to retrieve, sometimes dont even throw it , just let the mutt tug on it and always let her win , she will start bringing it back to you to play again, thats when the association has clicked in , bit long winded bud but best of luck with her,,

 

"Let her tug on it",recipe for hard mouth. "let her have it",she wins. "let her do what she wants with it",she wins. dont take it from her till shes finished with it",she wins. "do it again",she wins."Just let the mutt tug on it and ALWAYS LET HER WIN".

She will have the upper hand.Training is a matter of imposing your will on the dog,which must respect you as top dog. A dog will not retrieve,or obey any other command for that matter,to a subordinate,which is how the dog will see you if allowed to do as it pleases.

Good luck.

 

 

its not a competition where you have to win anything, whats with all the winning shit , your dog dont understand any of that stuff, your putting human thoughts into a canine mind,

What upper hand, by the dog getting the object and feeling good with herself in your company , is positive association, that works,

training is not about imposing anything, is about getting the dog to understand your comands, full stop

Your hung up on dominance, i tried it as a kid with dogs with average results, my father trained the same way ,but i knew there had to be a better way, a way that appealed to the nature of canines, and if a dog feels good round you, his more likely to pay attention to what your telling him ,

Im sure you read all the books and know all about dogs and what other people are telling you about them,,but the most important thing ive ever learnt was that canines are social by nature , they are pack animals , happly living with people without dominance , once you understand what they really need,,

For that record bud, i have 2 dogs at the min, both retrieve , they take turns watching the other fetch , they dont run till i tell them, when i walk the dog , i tell him to go get me a stick and we'llplay , he goes off gets me a stick , he will either sit , down, speak, turn round, high 5 me or go in the direction im pointing ,just for me to throw the stick for him, best of luck bud,,

 

"

You are correct in that canines are social animals-with that comes the necessity for social structure.There are dominant animals,which effectively run the pack,and the more subordinate,which take direction and discipline from the senior members. Without it the pack would not be able to function and the resulting chaos would mean the pack simply wouldnt survive.

Maybe you have mistaken the word dominance for bullying or beating the dog. By dominance I mean that the dog must see the owner as the pack leader-No dog will be trained by an owner it sees as lower in the pecking order than its self-these are facts,pure and simple.

Also,without getting heavily into semantics,Training pretty much equates to 'imposing your will' ie; getting a dog to do what you want it to do.

Regarding my comments to your post,for instance getting the dog involved in a tug of war when retrieving, could in my view cause problems with the dog giving up a catch-it has been taught that a tug of war is fun and acceptable behaviour when retrieving. You then have to 'undo' what the dog has learnt to prevent it happening when retrieving its catch? confusing to the simple canine mind imo.(no I do not see dogs as humans!)

All in all if youre happy with your dogs and they do what you require of them,then good on you fella.

Hope that clarifies things

 

[Casso 1,261]

Have a 15 week old Deerhound/Greyhound X Wheaten/Greyhound, will chase after things, but refuses to bring them back, gives the object a munch and shake, but just drops it and runs back to me.

Is it her breeding, her age, have tried all sorts, except putting her on a long lead, chances she will drop it too, and be dragged back enpty mouthed.

 

 

There's a number of things going on here , she's young, and she wont be experiencing much prey drive yet, but i would take the retrieve object out, when your out with her and just bounce it in your hand to get her interest going, just 5 mins few times a day, tease her with it, this will build up her drive for the object and at the same time her interest in you which is more important in my mind,

After a few days teasing her , show her , tease her then put it down to her still holding it , let her tug on it , praise her loads, then when shes tugging like f**k on it , let her have it, praise her again, let her do what she wants with it , dont take it from her till shes finished with it, and do it again , the important thing is for her to see YOU and the object as the best thing since sliced bread, what you try to achieve is the assocation in the dogs mind of a retrieve object and you as one and when you throw something the dog feels compelled to retrieve, sometimes dont even throw it , just let the mutt tug on it and always let her win , she will start bringing it back to you to play again, thats when the association has clicked in , bit long winded bud but best of luck with her,,

 

"Let her tug on it",recipe for hard mouth. "let her have it",she wins. "let her do what she wants with it",she wins. dont take it from her till shes finished with it",she wins. "do it again",she wins."Just let the mutt tug on it and ALWAYS LET HER WIN".

She will have the upper hand.Training is a matter of imposing your will on the dog,which must respect you as top dog. A dog will not retrieve,or obey any other command for that matter,to a subordinate,which is how the dog will see you if allowed to do as it pleases.

Good luck.

 

 

its not a competition where you have to win anything, whats with all the winning shit , your dog dont understand any of that stuff, your putting human thoughts into a canine mind,

What upper hand, by the dog getting the object and feeling good with herself in your company , is positive association, that works,

training is not about imposing anything, is about getting the dog to understand your comands, full stop

Your hung up on dominance, i tried it as a kid with dogs with average results, my father trained the same way ,but i knew there had to be a better way, a way that appealed to the nature of canines, and if a dog feels good round you, his more likely to pay attention to what your telling him ,

Im sure you read all the books and know all about dogs and what other people are telling you about them,,but the most important thing ive ever learnt was that canines are social by nature , they are pack animals , happly living with people without dominance , once you understand what they really need,,

For that record bud, i have 2 dogs at the min, both retrieve , they take turns watching the other fetch , they dont run till i tell them, when i walk the dog , i tell him to go get me a stick and we'llplay , he goes off gets me a stick , he will either sit , down, speak, turn round, high 5 me or go in the direction im pointing ,just for me to throw the stick for him, best of luck bud,,

 

"

You are correct in that canines are social animals-with that comes the necessity for social structure.There are dominant animals,which effectively run the pack,and the more subordinate,which take direction and discipline from the senior members. Without it the pack would not be able to function and the resulting chaos would mean the pack simply wouldnt survive.

Maybe you have mistaken the word dominance for bullying or beating the dog. By dominance I mean that the dog must see the owner as the pack leader-No dog will be trained by an owner it sees as lower in the pecking order than its self-these are facts,pure and simple.

Also,without getting heavily into semantics,Training pretty much equates to 'imposing your will' ie; getting a dog to do what you want it to do.

Regarding my comments to your post,for instance getting the dog involved in a tug of war when retrieving, could in my view cause problems with the dog giving up a catch-it has been taught that a tug of war is fun and acceptable behaviour when retrieving. You then have to 'undo' what the dog has learnt to prevent it happening when retrieving its catch? confusing to the simple canine mind imo.(no I do not see dogs as humans!)

All in all if youre happy with your dogs and they do what you require of them,then good on you fella.

Hope that clarifies things

 

Good post , the whole pack structure is very interesting in itself, the only reason its there at all is because of its prey, its the prey that shapes the pack, eg wolves hunting large animals, moose, buffalo, etc, jackels, foxes are mousers small prey therefore dont need weight of numbers,,so its the prey that control the predator,

Thats the premise i use with the mutts, i control their drive same as large prey controls predators, in much the same as wolves getting to chase ,grab ,bite and tug large prey, because a canine is happiest in drive,i let them experience drive before they ever hunt anything ,through me , fetching,tugging, all that play stuff, it tunes the dog into you, much the same as predators are tuned in prey, it opens a channel of understanding,that goes beyond pecking orders, its a partnership, he dont fear me and i dont fear him, never is there a need to dominant or raise your voice,to the dog

That thing bout a dog been taught to play tug and interfering with work is unfounded, a dog completly understands the difference, between work and play, work is work , he reads me like a book and knows its serious , Service dogs are a perfect example of a mutt that will hunt something for hours (drug detection) and their reward is to get to play tug, catch a ball, whatever it is,

i just find it trustrating that so many young dogs are passed on, because there drive has been channelled into some quarry or another and the lad wonders why the dog dont listen to him, its because the dog dosent see him as an outlet for his drive , the quarry becomes the outlet , prey controls predator,

Control his drive and you will control your dog, he has no choice, his been programmed through his very nature,,take care , best of luck with the mutts

[Lab 10,979]

No offence but its nothing to do with breeding,retrieving is down to training.If the dog is not doing what you want it to,it isn't trained,simple. "Dragged back empty mouthed" sums it up really.

It's 15 f*****g weeks!!!!

Let the pup be a pup......

[stormyboy 1,352]

its a partnership, he dont fear me and i dont fear him, never is there a need to dominant or raise your voice,to the dog

 

You still seem to equate dominance with fear. Agreed the dog should be your partner-you however should be the senior partner-ie dominant. Nothing to do with fear-maybe respect would be a better word. If the dog does not respect you as the pack leader,you cannot train it. If you are pack leader,you are the dominant one in the partnership. No fear,no beatings,just the natural order of the pack.

 

Labtastic- You are spot on. The point of my post-Dont blame the dog. Esp. at 15 weeks.

[redjimp 8]

My pup is about the same age and I am pretty inexperienced ,big bald and beautiful sent me one of plummers books (lurcher and long dog training) and I've found it very useful . The main thing that helped me is retreating a little bit , the dog already likes to be by your side when he picks up his dummy even if he intends to not fetch it he will look up to you for reassurance if you back away a bit at this point it can help give him the spur to return rather than mess about .

Just a little tip I am sure the others on here have loads more useful stuff

I'm currently struggling on his stay command ,I think i over treated him on his sit and down training and his sit has turned into a come and sit combined not sure how to sort that out ,I am considering a clicker so i can 'treat' him at distance

[Mooch. 177]

You could try retrieve training with another, more experienced dog. When the older dog brings the retrieve back to hand give the dog loads of fuss. When the pup doesn't bring it back ignore it and send the older dog giving lots of fuss on it's successful return. Hopefully the penny will drop with the pup when it realises its losing out on all the attention. Jelousy can be a powerful weapon in your training arsenal!