Red Lakeland's

[wirral countryman 2,110]

JR YIP,I don't know how much experience you have with terrier's but those that work them hard will understand the need to breed early sometimes,we've all lost good dogs that we wish to have had a pup off,my dogs get some form of work everyday and I've lost some great dogs that were well bred,if you only give your dogs light work or only get out at the weekend for the odd dig then your dogs may last 7-8yrs but the dogs that do hunt work or a tested regular most days in a season have a high percentage risk of not coming home,if a man knows his dogs and see's them work regular,he knows their capability,then I'm sure he can see if it has the makings of a first class dog then why not breed off it,so long as you're honest about the parentage and work then I do not see it as unusual or unfair,its the rubbish dogs that jib or don't get much work that are dragging the terrier scene down and young kids trying to make a name for themselves with outlandish claims after 1 or 2 digs,wirralman

[JR Yipp 111]

JR YIP,I don't know how much experience you have with terrier's but those that work them hard will understand the need to breed early sometimes,we've all lost good dogs that we wish to have had a pup off,my dogs get some form of work everyday and I've lost some great dogs that were well bred,if you only give your dogs light work or only get out at the weekend for the odd dig then your dogs may last 7-8yrs but the dogs that do hunt work or a tested regular most days in a season have a high percentage risk of not coming home,if a man knows his dogs and see's them work regular,he knows their capability,then I'm sure he can see if it has the makings of a first class dog then why not breed off it,so long as you're honest about the parentage and work then I do not see it as unusual or unfair,its the rubbish dogs that jib or don't get much work that are dragging the terrier scene down and young kids trying to make a name for themselves with outlandish claims after 1 or 2 digs,wirralman

 

i think you have missed the point of my post. i am all to aware of what you called hard and "hunt" work and because of this im also aware that alot of the very good dogs will happily do 8 seasons and fair very very well and produce lots of good dogs that will in turn lasts seasons. If a dog is getting good results and has the mind and body to last a good number of seasons then there is no reasons atall to breed from a dog that dosent. some dogs die in their line of duty for many reasons but these are generally freak events and not as regular as some folk portray and certainly do not reflect a standard of a kennels. good ones very rarely die from too much use, in fact i would go as far as to say your more likly to jack it than kill it, this is in all cases the owners fault but does happen.some will have to be retired due to lack of teeth or palette etc, whether these are faults of the dog or line and whether they are kept alive for breeding of is dependant on the dog. gary has explained his reasons and this is fine, i have my own ideas on it but there not my dog.i aslo think alot of this bout dogs not lasting very long is nothing more than macho bullshit and has very little basis. perhaps you could change my opinion by explaining what a young 1st/2nd seasons dog could do that would make it "not come home" and more worthy of breeding of than a dog that is still doing it at a good age then feel free.

 

my original point is that soundness of both body and mind to produce longevity is surely something to breed for. if smashed up dogs that drop down dead at 3 are what folk are after then their in the wrong game.

 

you are very correct that far to many dogs are being bred from with false reputations also jibbers etc, these are your standards, mine just go a bit further to included longevity and soundness over a longer period, 1 or 2 seasons work is not as much of a test as 4/5 seasons doing proper work and if dogs are produced and thoughtfully bred to do this then there is no reasons not to.

[JR Yipp 111]

Edited April 13, 2011 by JR Yipp

[GARY 76]

HI Lads

 

Please we all have our own opinions and to be fair i'm the only person that knows and works my dogs, the other thing i did'nt mention is that maybe in his case he may only be phisically able to work for so long due to his early hardness................

 

Cheers and happy Digging

[JR Yipp 111]

HI Lads

 

Please we all have our own opinions and to be fair i'm the only person that knows and works my dogs, the other thing i did'nt mention is that maybe in his case he may only be phisically able to work for so long due to his early hardness................

 

Cheers and happy Digging

 

wasnt a dig at you mate, just intreged, despite wirrals comments ive worked and bred a few mutts. high jacked your thread slightly but dont take it personally just wandering peoples thoughts on the subject.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Gary,I understood that was your reason for breeding early as I have kept a few myself,sorry for any hassle with your thread but I felt the need to explain to J R YIPP that we all cannot afford to wait till a dog is 8-9 yrs of age to breed,an experienced eye can normally tell the standard of his stock and if they are going to make it,I've lost a few down the year's and I've been on a few rescue digs that have ended badly,its not down to bad management just sometimes a dog will follow where the fox goes and if it bolts across a motorway it ends badly,land-drains are a nightmare that can lead into main drains,railway lines with drains are very common for fox to lay up in,if all the good dogs lasted 9yrs we would not be having this debate,I've hunted up and down this country in all terrains and each bring their own danger's,some dogs just suffocate in a tight hole and if you have'nt seen it then you hunt in a very safe area with shallow small earths that can be quickly dug,I never looked to knock you but explain the job our tykes do can be a dangerous one,once they enter that hole it can lead us anywhere,so if you're happy to take some stock off a younger dog as back up then I see that as insurance for your line,I have an 8yr old dog now that I bred at 3yrs of age and have put him over a couple of bitches lately, but he has now become sterile,the vet tells me I have worked him too hard and boy am I glad I used him over a decent bitch back then,so you see,sometimes its worth doing,WIRRALMAN

[steveS.Yorks 161]

Nice dogs Garry,i went down the hard dog to sensible dog route myself years ago,it worked for me

[hounddogg31 5]

give me a call.