Coursing Dogs & Non - Ped Whippets.

[TOMO 27,244]

There's nothing wrong with a one trick pony. If you only hunt hares would you fault a 5 out of 5 in january dog because it wouldn't take fox? Or if you only hunt fox would a 5 a night bull cross be of any less use to you if it couldn't catch a daytime hare?

Is a collie cross only an allrounder if it can herd sheep?

 

:thumbs: very true BOLIO

 

 

intresting topic C.P , i can see where your coming from , as this is exactly how breeds are made.... but im with evryone else , and to use one of Chalky's sayings best let sleeping dogs lie

[chartpolski 25,333]

My post was'nt aimed at you Cp. It was in reference to Whins statement that he prefers all round lurchers to 'one trick ponies'. Lots of people concentrate on one quarry species and in the case of coursing, one method of taking that quarry. It doesn't mean that the dog, whether it be saluki x, bull x or hardblood, won't take other quarry. But it doesn't matter so long as it does its own job well. Its hard enough to get an A 1 dog for hares without worrying if it will also excel at fox and vice versa. Thats WHY the types have diverged in the first place. Those interested in track racing wouldn't use a saluki x and the day time fen runner wouldn't use a bull x simply because each of those activities already has specialized types that do the job better.

 

Cheers mate; I don't take much notice of Whins posts; when you can decipher what he's saying, he is usualy slagging any dog except his own special breed or talking about salmon and lobsters on a lurcher thread !! LOL !! I just thought the topic might get a few talking about "specialised" Lurcher types.

Cheers.

[birddog 1,354]

don't think it would be a good idea. non peds dont breed true to type, fact. often two racy types put together can give stocky, bully type whelps. if you did want to create a breed/strain these could be bred out given time but you would lose the only things that these great wee dogs have been bred for for generations: speed and racing ability. with the amount of greyhound blood flowing in some lines again if you mate 2 reasonable size racers throwbacks can occur, i recall from a while ago a mate bought a pup to be a yd/lb racer from a 26lb rch f2 stud out of a 22lb rch f1 and instead of a maybe 24lber his went 52lb and although it was a real flyer it was not what was wanted. my veiw if its not broken don,t fix it! let them be bred fastest to fastest and let racing results be the reason for breeding not size or posture etc. long live the hardblood

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

@ Birdog...

[Guest storm70]

The best dog I've ever seen was patch the robber he was used for daytime hares he dident lamp do fox nothing but hares and he was the best I've seen he was doing 20 LE a week always took over 5 every outing dident belong to me but I was out whith him week in week out he was just a out and out haredog and not to be nocked like some salukixhybryds there for the job patch was off unownbreading but I think he was collix he was shortcoupled lads do have all-round lurches that do a bit of everything I've seen greatdogs that somelads woudent keep that can't carry or dnt lamp ect but can kill 5 out5 that somelads woudent feed proper hybreads excell at different jobs and allrounders are still there and I can see every1 point thow I prefer the alrounders myself good post

[Lennard 10]

I don't get the question. What does recognise mean outside the conformation standards of kennel club institutions?

 

A small grew with thick muscles is a sprinter, for small game in places wiht a lot of cover mainly.

 

A big boney sloogi type is a long distance dog, for game in more open places.

 

L

[chartpolski 25,333]

I don't get the question. What does recognise mean outside the conformation standards of kennel club institutions?

 

A small grew with thick muscles is a sprinter, for small game in places wiht a lot of cover mainly.

 

A big boney sloogi type is a long distance dog, for game in more open places.

 

L

 

The question was quite simple; there are people who think that Non-Ped Whippets are breeding true to type, and shouldn't be called Whippets/Lurchers/Longdogs, whatever, anymore, and should be recognised as "Non-Ped Racing Dogs" ! Also, there are some in the Hare Coursing fraternity who breed Saluki Hyrids who think their dogs are now so specialised that they deserve distinction from Lurchers/Longdogs.I'm of the opinion that ALL lurchers/Longdogs are a variation of a TYPE, and would hate to see some get special recognition, as that would undoubtably lead to KC regerstration and the detriment of the type.

 

Cheers.

[optimus 447]

I don't get the question. What does recognise mean outside the conformation standards of kennel club institutions?

 

A small grew with thick muscles is a sprinter, for small game in places wiht a lot of cover mainly.

 

A big boney sloogi type is a long distance dog, for game in more open places.

 

L

 

The question was quite simple; there are people who think that Non-Ped Whippets are breeding true to type, and shouldn't be called Whippets/Lurchers/Longdogs, whatever, anymore, and should be recognised as "Non-Ped Racing Dogs" ! Also, there are some in the Hare Coursing fraternity who breed Saluki Hyrids who think their dogs are now so specialised that they deserve distinction from Lurchers/Longdogs.I'm of the opinion that ALL lurchers/Longdogs are a variation of a TYPE, and would hate to see some get special recognition, as that would undoubtably lead to KC regerstration and the detriment of the type.

 

Cheers.

C/P, HARDBLOODS ARE RACED IN WEIGHT CATEGORIES SO THEY RANGE BETWEEN WHIPPET & GREYHOUND SIZE(though smaller dogs are favoured in the racing circuit). WOULD YOU LABEL THEM "Non-Ped Racing Dogs" THAT ARE USED AS A LURCHER/LONGDOG????

[chartpolski 25,333]

I don't get the question. What does recognise mean outside the conformation standards of kennel club institutions?

 

A small grew with thick muscles is a sprinter, for small game in places wiht a lot of cover mainly.

 

A big boney sloogi type is a long distance dog, for game in more open places.

 

L

 

The question was quite simple; there are people who think that Non-Ped Whippets are breeding true to type, and shouldn't be called Whippets/Lurchers/Longdogs, whatever, anymore, and should be recognised as "Non-Ped Racing Dogs" ! Also, there are some in the Hare Coursing fraternity who breed Saluki Hyrids who think their dogs are now so specialised that they deserve distinction from Lurchers/Longdogs.I'm of the opinion that ALL lurchers/Longdogs are a variation of a TYPE, and would hate to see some get special recognition, as that would undoubtably lead to KC regerstration and the detriment of the type.

 

Cheers.

C/P, HARDBLOODS ARE RACED IN WEIGHT CATEGORIES SO THEY RANGE BETWEEN WHIPPET & GREYHOUND SIZE(though smaller dogs are favoured in the racing circuit). WOULD YOU LABEL THEM "Non-Ped Racing Dogs" THAT ARE USED AS A LURCHER/LONGDOG????

 

As you see by my post, I'm against them being "re-catorgarised", but there ARE people talking about it every weekend at the tracks. By the way, Pedigree,KC Whippets ALSO race in wheight classes, and not one person I know with Non-Peds would own or breed from one. I started a long time back with Non-Peds, and they were definately used as Lurchers AND race dogs. I got banned from K9 site for suggesting that there was no such thing as a 55lb "Whippet", but the BWRA sold their soul to attract and keep members, their top wheight used to be 32lb, but for Gods sake, 55lb ??!! I've seen smaller dogs run in the Waterloo Cup.

 

Cheers.

[Lennard 10]

Ah...I see the problem. But it is not about dogs but about semantics of people that deal with dogs. Not a problem for you or me if they want to call something by a different name. Unless you have to discuss classification with these people.

 

For me things are easy. During my college years (biology) we had 2 types of students in animal systematics. The splitters, who want to see diversity in nature, and the lumpers, who want to see unity in nature. Splitters and lumpers are looking at the same thing but see it different and most will not overcome their interests. The big question is, what is the purpose of the classification? Why do you need it? Classification without purpose is a waste of time.

 

gr

L

Edited April 8, 2011 by Lennard

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Ah...I see the problem. But it is not about dogs but about semantics of people that deal with dogs. Not a problem for you or me if they want to call something by a different name. Unless you have to discuss classification with these people.

 

For me things are easy. During my college years (biology) we had 2 types of students in animal systematics. The splitters, who want to see diversity in nature, and the lumpers, who want to see unity in nature. Splitters and lumpers are looking at the same thing but see it different and most will not overcome their interests. The big question is, what is the purpose of the classification? Why do you need it? Classification without purpose is a waste of time.

 

gr

L

 

One of the best posts ever made on this board and I agree with you whole heartedly. I was just about to make a post on this subject regarding this very issue. Thanks for saving me the time.

[birddog 1,354]

I know it's a matter of opinion but, the bwra sold it's soul? were they following the lead set by the feds who recognised the heavywieghts and the need for providing these (in a lot of cases throwbacks) with proper recognition and racing? Thus not losing the members whose puppy choice had not bred true to type and had thrown to a greyhound grandmother perhaps from both sides. Or were they merely echoing what was happening at clubs the length and breadth of the country, that are the heart and soul of any organisation, where much loved family pets had went too heavy for some commitee members liking were running week in and week out?

[chartpolski 25,333]

I know it's a matter of opinion but, the bwra sold it's soul? were they following the lead set by the feds who recognised the heavywieghts and the need for providing these (in a lot of cases throwbacks) with proper recognition and racing? Thus not losing the members whose puppy choice had not bred true to type and had thrown to a greyhound grandmother perhaps from both sides. Or were they merely echoing what was happening at clubs the length and breadth of the country, that are the heart and soul of any organisation, where much loved family pets had went too heavy for some commitee members liking were running week in and week out?

 

Back many years ago, when I had Non-Peds, here "up North" we had a 21" limit, and some clubs had no limit; as long as the dog went in the trap, it raced. These were always time trial handicaps. "Down South" they went more for the yards per pound, and if a pup went over the 32lb limit, and had a bit of speed about it, they were sent north; Daisy, Robbo, Tiger Bay, and many more great Scratch dogs that went "over", came up here. When Whippet racing started dying off, the BWRA definately sold their souls and lifted their limit to 55lb. This was to accomadate the Whippet/Greyhound 1st crosses that went "over"; now the BWRA is putting restrictions on the breeding of Greyhound crosses, simply because people were/are breeding 3/4 grey, 1/4 Non-Ped in the hope that they may just get a flyer that wheighs in, but what about all the others in the litter that are basicaly Greyhounds ?

I, personaly think they should have stuck to a 32lb limit. There is always club racing and scratch racing for the "overs".

 

Cheers.

[birddog 1,354]

I know it's a matter of opinion but, the bwra sold it's soul? were they following the lead set by the feds who recognised the heavywieghts and the need for providing these (in a lot of cases throwbacks) with proper recognition and racing? Thus not losing the members whose puppy choice had not bred true to type and had thrown to a greyhound grandmother perhaps from both sides. Or were they merely echoing what was happening at clubs the length and breadth of the country, that are the heart and soul of any organisation, where much loved family pets had went too heavy for some commitee members liking were running week in and week out?

 

Back many years ago, when I had Non-Peds, here "up North" we had a 21" limit, and some clubs had no limit; as long as the dog went in the trap, it raced. These were always time trial handicaps. "Down South" they went more for the yards per pound, and if a pup went over the 32lb limit, and had a bit of speed about it, they were sent north; Daisy, Robbo, Tiger Bay, and many more great Scratch dogs that went "over", came up here. When Whippet racing started dying off, the BWRA definately sold their souls and lifted their limit to 55lb. This was to accomadate the Whippet/Greyhound 1st crosses that went "over"; now the BWRA is putting restrictions on the breeding of Greyhound crosses, simply because people were/are breeding 3/4 grey, 1/4 Non-Ped in the hope that they may just get a flyer that wheighs in, but what about all the others in the litter that are basicaly Greyhounds ?

I, personaly think they should have stuck to a 32lb limit. There is always club racing and scratch racing for the "overs".

 

Cheers.

exactly the point i was getting at, you and i could have 2 mental fast pups from the same litter and because 1 goes over its restricted to club racing often as you know against also rans whilst its smaller sibling is off round the country racking up points, pounds and recognition shouldn't a biggie have that recognition if its good enough?