Coursing Dogs & Non - Ped Whippets.

[paddybarr 77]

Surely to be recognised as a breed in their own right would mean breeding true to a type, which means the diversity that makes them so appealing would be lost?

 

I'm not talking about Lurchers in general; I'm on about Saluki Hybrids and Non-Ped Whippets, which DO breed true to type.

 

Cheers.

 

"Type" being??? all the whippet non ped breeders i know breed for 1 purpose SPEED and the coursers for ability anyone can add anything into the mix if they wish so to be regonised as a breed "type" would have to be more defined and breeding have limitations same as KC

[dennned 172]

what the f uck for theyre STILL hybrids ---- look up the definition of HYBRID that'll answer your question-------no

[chartpolski 24,631]

The Non ped title given to whippets is confusing but as you said, their pedigrees are well known and documented, so other than the KC accepting the standard differences, I don't know what more you could ask for.

Greyhounds are considered endangered by the KC, in the 5 lowest registered breeds, when thousands are bred yearly.

When you say pedigree, it gives the impression of a 'pure' bred, a recognised breed. When any dog can come with a 3 or 5 generation (or more) pedigree.

You could ask the same between many different breeds - the Labrador for example, being the most registered breed again this year via the Kennel Club. But a working Lab is so much different.

But a working Lab is still a Lab, just as a Non ped Whippet is still a whippet.

 

Labradoodles will not be recognised because as yet, they do not breed true. F1 bred to F1 = an F2 and does not make an F1 and all variables between the 2 breeds are to be expected.

The same said for long dog variations. A Saluki Grey to a Saluki Grey for instance could throw up all variations between the 2 breeds, there for, do not breed true.

 

If you look at Silken Windhounds (can't you tell a woman came up with that name!!) basically Borzoi to Whippet now finally breed true and each puppy will generally be the same as its litter mates and parents, but not yet recognised by the UK KC, only recognised by the UKC at the start of this year. Longdogs given a fancy name now in great demand - a 'rare' breed in the UK.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to see either lurchers or longdogs recognised or standardised. I like the variations available as they are. There really is a lurcher or longdog suitable for every home.

 

Excellent !! Exactly the type of well reasoned responce I was after !

 

Cheers.

[chartpolski 24,631]

what the f uck for theyre STILL hybrids ---- look up the definition of HYBRID that'll answer your question-------no

 

Den, I think you probably know that I know what the definition of "Hybrid" is; I was asking a hypothetical question about Lurchers that is going around amongst lads with coursing dogs and Whippets.... It wasn't meant to elicit angry responces; ony genuine answeres. I don't know the answer, just posting what I've heard ! The people who are breeding the best coursing AND racing dogs, are adding to the best Lurcher blood, in my opinion !

 

Cheers.

[Coneytrappr 30]

If it ain't broke don't fix it...

Lurchers, longdogs and non ped whippets have survived and 'flourished' as types for a long time now. I think that to be 'recognised' as breeds there would have to be a standard written- which thus far has only encouraged exageration and a focus on physical form in other breeds. Would it be an open registery? Or when would/would the studbooks be closed? Who would decide what standards or types would be acceptable?

 

Too risky and wouldn't add any worth to the dogs. The good ones are worth their weight in gold as it is.

[whin 463]

im afraid i disagree with you .i look at a lurcher as a dog to catch all sorts not target one type of game if it cant do that it aint a long dog lurcher whatever ,its a peg below. one trick ponys to me are no better than a specailised breed which is fine but a good lurcher and i mean purpose bred from generaitions has to r h r odd fox if its a lamb killer .if they cant do that well how can you say there a real deal allround hunting opputunist every man has adiffrent opion , and you get adog to siut the area you hunt in i mean i wouldnt get a29 inch deerhound type for rabbs were a dog 24 25 26 can do the job ,i think a good lurcher is a jack of all trades mate and never to be put as a breed and as for a grew it was bred for raceing and a bit sport not as a lurcher and if any body thinks diffrent kiding there self on ,it is very difficult to breed good allround lurchers ,i never in my whole life ever thought hees a specailist i thought he is a either a good dog or not ,were i grew up alurcher was either a good dog or not depending what he could catch not the type ,same as now but we learn and breed more selectivly , ive got 5 generaitions of colie type and a good few generaitions of saluki type and mixed between the two ,i call them lurchers not into fi f2 just working dogs best to as best as you can get ,people who have 30 inch dogs well realy not needed and people who bredd racing grews are not need e in the feild as neither are usaly great allrounders there a spescailist breed

[whin 463]

non peds are for racing abit work and big lumbering deerhound crosses are for people who want to be a bit scotish lol,if a dog has been bred for the sole purpose of killing game its a lurcher if not its just a dog i mean racing whipps are racing whipps thats there forty ,and a good bred working lurcher has his but there non pure pedegree and should never be , should only be kept bu enthuaiasts of the game to further breeding and working ability i put working ability first , then the resat i work round , not showing daft racing ,whats in the bag counts more than any silly racing event ,i wouldnt let a dog race full stop a lurcher non ped whippet diffrent ,people get mixed up lurcher racing is for working dogs to have fun how many so called non peds are bred to work and racing second none so it is aspecailist bred tthe minuts ypou breed for to win arace at adaft lurcher event , its not a lurcher by any mans standard maybe good to bred of for pace but in general its not a lurcher ,saw a dog china very fast but would it last chaseing on the local qaurry , the hard dry stubble the cold wet nites , i dont think so its bred to win races just like agreyhound

[dennned 172]

what the f uck for theyre STILL hybrids ---- look up the definition of HYBRID that'll answer your question-------no

 

Den, I think you probably know that I know what the definition of "Hybrid" is; I was asking a hypothetical question about Lurchers that is going around amongst lads with coursing dogs and Whippets.... It wasn't meant to elicit angry responces; ony genuine answeres. I don't know the answer, just posting what I've heard ! The people who are breeding the best coursing AND racing dogs, are adding to the best Lurcher blood, in my opinion !

 

Cheers.

ritchie , was'nt an angry response , i understood what you were thinking , practicality though , theyre still hybrids , no true to breed

[optimus 447]

C/P, I HAVE NEVER AGREED WITH THE LURCHER OR LONGDOG LABEL BUT IAM GOING TO REPLY TO YOUR ANSWER WITH AN ANSWER. SHOULD A WORKING HARDBLOOD WHIPPET STILL BE KNOWN AS A HARDBLOOD OR A LURCHER/LONG DOG??? AS FAR AS COURSING LINES GO THEY RANGE FROM BEING SMOOTH COATED, TO SILKY SALUKI COATED TO BEING ROUGH COATED THAT REQUIRE TO BE CLIPPED. THUS I THINK THEY ARE TOO VARIED IN TYPE TO BE CATEGORISED

[chartpolski 24,631]

Some good replies, thanks ! I personaly DON'T think they should be classed as seperate breeds, even though they seem to breed true to type. It's interesting, though, that the Non-Ped is now being used more and more in the coursing lines.

 

Cheers.

Edited April 7, 2011 by chartpolski

[BOLIO1 1,078]

There's nothing wrong with a one trick pony. If you only hunt hares would you fault a 5 out of 5 in january dog because it wouldn't take fox? Or if you only hunt fox would a 5 a night bull cross be of any less use to you if it couldn't catch a daytime hare?

Is a collie cross only an allrounder if it can herd sheep?

[chartpolski 24,631]

There's nothing wrong with a one trick pony. If you only hunt hares would you fault a 5 out of 5 in january dog because it wouldn't take fox? Or if you only hunt fox would a 5 a night bull cross be of any less use to you if it couldn't catch a daytime hare?

Is a collie cross only an allrounder if it can herd sheep?

 

Maybe you mis-read the post mate; I wasn't crabbing any type of dog ! I think the Coursing dog and the Non-Ped are unbeatable in their own feilds, and can still do other things, so certainly not "one trick ponies"

 

Cheers.

[samba 534]

There's nothing wrong with a one trick pony. If you only hunt hares would you fault a 5 out of 5 in january dog because it wouldn't take fox? Or if you only hunt fox would a 5 a night bull cross be of any less use to you if it couldn't catch a daytime hare?

Is a collie cross only an allrounder if it can herd sheep?

 

Maybe you mis-read the post mate; I wasn't crabbing any type of dog ! I think the Coursing dog and the Non-Ped are unbeatable in their own feilds, and can still do other things, so certainly not "one trick ponies"

 

Cheers.

ive been around non ped whippets for nearly40yrs as a youngen we still caught rabbit/hare/fox

with these dogs some big some as small as 23lb in weight

they can adapt to anything feild or racing which our present dogs still do ive still got

the line of a old dog we had in my bullxs

there pedigree cant be trace back over 40 yrs alot more than some folk can say about

there running dogs

as there prodominatly racing dogs nowadays bred for speed /winning one brought up as a lurcher

would do well

speed wise the non ped is far superior to any kc/or show bred whippet

atb samba

[DottyDoo 500]

as long as ye working them, who cares what ye call em,

 

i usually call mine cun...t

[BOLIO1 1,078]

My post was'nt aimed at you Cp. It was in reference to Whins statement that he prefers all round lurchers to 'one trick ponies'. Lots of people concentrate on one quarry species and in the case of coursing, one method of taking that quarry. It doesn't mean that the dog, whether it be saluki x, bull x or hardblood, won't take other quarry. But it doesn't matter so long as it does its own job well. Its hard enough to get an A 1 dog for hares without worrying if it will also excel at fox and vice versa. Thats WHY the types have diverged in the first place. Those interested in track racing wouldn't use a saluki x and the day time fen runner wouldn't use a bull x simply because each of those activities already has specialized types that do the job better.