Coursing Dogs & Non - Ped Whippets.

[chartpolski 24,627]

Lurchers & long dogs are so diverse in their breeding; anything from a Beddy/Whippet to a Wolfhound/Greyhound is a "Lurcher", or "Longdog", but two strains stand out as specialists, and can trace their breeding back as far, if not farther than some Pedigrees; the Saluki Hybrid Coursing dog and the Non - Ped Whippet. Should these dogs be considered breeds in their own right ? There are Coursing men who think so, also some Whippet men think their dogs have the breeding history and specialisation to be considered breeds seperate from "Lurchers". I'm not talking K.C. recognisation; that way lies ruin for any breed ! Be interesting to hear peoples views !

Cheers.

Edited April 6, 2011 by chartpolski

[6pack 60]

Surely to be recognised as a breed in their own right would mean breeding true to a type, which means the diversity that makes them so appealing would be lost?

[chartpolski 24,627]

Surely to be recognised as a breed in their own right would mean breeding true to a type, which means the diversity that makes them so appealing would be lost?

 

I'm not talking about Lurchers in general; I'm on about Saluki Hybrids and Non-Ped Whippets, which DO breed true to type.

 

Cheers.

[6pack 60]

You mean like racing Greys?

Not Kc standard or regged but a recognised type.

[keepitcovert 842]

Was looking at a book the other day dated 1936 title escapes me, but it mentioned the two types of whippet the working racing type and the show variety so nothing new there. I dont know when the kc recognised the whippet, but too much emphasise is placed on kc registration.

[chartpolski 24,627]

You mean like racing Greys?

Not Kc standard or regged but a recognised type.

 

Sort of; Non-Pede Whippets have their own data base, and the coursing lads know the breeding of their dogs for generations back. The Greyhound IS a KC recognised pedigree, but what they think is a Greyhound bears little resemblance to a racing or coursing Greyhound. I've heard a few people say Saluki Hybrids and Non-Peds aren't Lurchers, (longdogs) anymore, they are to specialised.

 

Cheers.

[TINY 12 108]

there mongerels and best left like that

[chartpolski 24,627]

Was looking at a book the other day dated 1936 title escapes me, but it mentioned the two types of whippet the working racing type and the show variety so nothing new there. I dont know when the kc recognised the whippet, but too much emphasise is placed on kc registration.

 

In my post, I said I was against KC registration

 

Cheers.

[chartpolski 24,627]

there mongerels and best left like that

 

Well, that's one view ! I always broke dog types down to three types;

 

!, Pure bred - Bred from two of the same breed with at least five generations of proven breeding.

2, Cross bred - bred from two different breeds but both parents lineage known.

 

3, Mongrel- Breeding of one or both parents unknown.

 

Cheers.

[DUCKWING 302]

BETTER LEFT AS IS IMO ...........

 

IVE SEEN A LARGE RISE IN THE PATTERDALE BEING BOUGHT AS A PET OVER THE LAST FEW YRS .......

 

HANG A NAME ON A BREED AND THERE WILL BE PET OWNERS / BREEDERS WANTING TO KEEP AND BREED THE SAME ,

 

UNTRIED AND TESTED DOGS WHEATHER IN A PET HOME OR SHOWN IN A K.C. RING AND BRED OFF ARE THE RUINATION OF ANY WORKING ANIMAL ........

 

DUCKWING

[chartpolski 24,627]

BETTER LEFT AS IS IMO ...........

 

IVE SEEN A LARGE RISE IN THE PATTERDALE BEING BOUGHT AS A PET OVER THE LAST FEW YRS .......

 

HANG A NAME ON A BREED AND THERE WILL BE PET OWNERS / BREEDERS WANTING TO KEEP AND BREED THE SAME ,

 

UNTRIED AND TESTED DOGS WHEATHER IN A PET HOME OR SHOWN IN A K.C. RING AND BRED OFF ARE THE RUINATION OF ANY WORKING ANIMAL ........

 

DUCKWING

 

Just about my thinking ! Once "Registration" comes into it, then working ability gets forgoten about ! But strange things go on; just look at the "labradoodle", big money for them and there's people trying to get them KC registered ! Whatever happened to the Parson Russel since it got recognition, are any worked ?

 

Cheers.

[leegreen 2,210]

BETTER LEFT AS IS IMO ...........

 

IVE SEEN A LARGE RISE IN THE PATTERDALE BEING BOUGHT AS A PET OVER THE LAST FEW YRS .......

 

HANG A NAME ON A BREED AND THERE WILL BE PET OWNERS / BREEDERS WANTING TO KEEP AND BREED THE SAME ,

 

UNTRIED AND TESTED DOGS WHEATHER IN A PET HOME OR SHOWN IN A K.C. RING AND BRED OFF ARE THE RUINATION OF ANY WORKING ANIMAL ........

 

DUCKWING

 

I must agree, it will do nothing for the working capabilities of these hybrids. I think they are recognized by the right people now anyway.

I have a Non-ped and am not wanting anyone to recognize her apart from people who know what she is.

Nice thought though.

[TINY 12 108]

BETTER LEFT AS IS IMO ...........

 

IVE SEEN A LARGE RISE IN THE PATTERDALE BEING BOUGHT AS A PET OVER THE LAST FEW YRS .......

 

HANG A NAME ON A BREED AND THERE WILL BE PET OWNERS / BREEDERS WANTING TO KEEP AND BREED THE SAME ,

 

UNTRIED AND TESTED DOGS WHEATHER IN A PET HOME OR SHOWN IN A K.C. RING AND BRED OFF ARE THE RUINATION OF ANY WORKING ANIMAL ........

 

DUCKWING

 

Just about my thinking ! Once "Registration" comes into it, then working ability gets forgoten about ! But strange things go on; just look at the "labradoodle", big money for them and there's people trying to get them KC registered ! Whatever happened to the Parson Russel since it got recognition, are any worked ?

 

Cheers.

 

there a fella in ireland still uses them for foxes great terrier for the job.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

It wont matter if you register them. The good ones will still be out there "UN-REGISTERED". Some folks will get fooled into thinkin they got the real deal but in the end they wont have. That already happens anyhow so who cares. Leave the dogs alone, they dont need a piece of paper with their name on it or a trophy and ribbon to prove their worth to those that own them.

[6pack 60]

The Non ped title given to whippets is confusing but as you said, their pedigrees are well known and documented, so other than the KC accepting the standard differences, I don't know what more you could ask for.

Greyhounds are considered endangered by the KC, in the 5 lowest registered breeds, when thousands are bred yearly.

When you say pedigree, it gives the impression of a 'pure' bred, a recognised breed. When any dog can come with a 3 or 5 generation (or more) pedigree.

You could ask the same between many different breeds - the Labrador for example, being the most registered breed again this year via the Kennel Club. But a working Lab is so much different.

But a working Lab is still a Lab, just as a Non ped Whippet is still a whippet.

 

Labradoodles will not be recognised because as yet, they do not breed true. F1 bred to F1 = an F2 and does not make an F1 and all variables between the 2 breeds are to be expected.

The same said for long dog variations. A Saluki Grey to a Saluki Grey for instance could throw up all variations between the 2 breeds, there for, do not breed true.

 

If you look at Silken Windhounds (can't you tell a woman came up with that name!!) basically Borzoi to Whippet now finally breed true and each puppy will generally be the same as its litter mates and parents, but not yet recognised by the UK KC, only recognised by the UKC at the start of this year. Longdogs given a fancy name now in great demand - a 'rare' breed in the UK.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to see either lurchers or longdogs recognised or standardised. I like the variations available as they are. There really is a lurcher or longdog suitable for every home.