pump or dive tank ????

[riflehunter583 58]

does anyone know the material used in the main o rings used in the hill pumps?

 

the main piston doing all the work.

Edited July 24, 2013 by riflehunter583

[Manco 16]

I've used a Hill Mk2 pump for the past 5 years and it had performed faultlessly - until a fortnight ago. Then, I experienced the dreaded 'pump lock' to coin a phrase. After a few up and down strokes, the pump 'locked' and it was difficult, if not impossible, to move the handle up or down. It's strange how irrational we are sometimes: because the pump was working fine the day before, my first assumption was that the issue was with the air rifle! When I checked out this theory by using the pump on another pcp I experienced 'pump lock' once again.

A quick email pinged its way to Ernest Hill company asking their 'owls' whether the symptoms I described sounded like a pump issue, received a reply almost 'by return'. According to a resident technical expert I had in fact described the classic symptoms of pump failure resulting from lack of lubrication or one or more failed seals. According to Hill's this generally happens to pumps sooner or later, usually after about 3 years' use. Their technical boffin added that most often it turns out that the 'culprit' is a small green-coloured o-ring that does the real heavy-duty work of the pump. (Aaargh, the infamous green seal!)

 

Now, I happen to live in rural South Africa and there are no air gunsmiths plying their trade anywhere near to me. Also, I like to be self-reliant as far as my skills, tools and time permit. So I decided to service the Hill pump myself and ordered a replacement seal kit from Hill's South African agent.

 

While I was waiting for the seals to arrive I stripped down my 2 pcps (A Career 707 Carbine and a Sumatra 2500 Carbine) for a long-overdue inspection of their air cylinders. I was pleased to note that there was no sign of any rust in the cylinders whatsoever. Sehr interesting I thought since I have to confess that I have been very negligent about changing the Dry Pack that I fitted as an accessory for the pump.

 

Long story short, the new seal kit arrived, I dismantled the pump, cleaned off all the old silicone grease with White Spirit (known for some unknown reason as Mineral Turps over here) and made sure all parts were thoroughly dry. Next I replaced the seals one-by-one having first lubricated them with a smear of silicone grease. Finally I lubricated the sliding parts of the pump sparingly with a smear of silicone grease and put everything back together. And would you believe it - it worked! Fan-friggin-tastic! The pump is now restored to its original performance.

 

As an aside, on dismantling the Hill Mk2 pump I couldn't fail to be impressed by its robust build quality. It remined my of my old BSA push bike which had a Sturmey Archer three-speed gear and bore the legend "Built like a Gun".

 

Living as I do in rural South Africa choosing a pump over a dive bottle is a no-brainer. A 300 kilometer round trip to the nearest dive centre to refill a scuba bottle would cost me approximately £30 in petrol alone. (Although an ex-pat, I'm Yorkshire born and bred) And how fitting it is that Hill pumps are manufactered in my home town of Sheffield.

 

Chris

Edited August 1, 2013 by Manco

[riflehunter583 58]

I've used a Hill Mk2 pump for the past 5 years and it had performed faultlessly - until a fortnight ago. Then, I experienced the dreaded 'pump lock' to coin a phrase. After a few up and down strokes, the pump 'locked' and it was difficult, if not impossible, to move the handle up or down. It's strange how irrational we are sometimes: because the pump was working fine the day before, my first assumption was that the issue was with the air rifle! When I checked out this theory by using the pump on another pcp I experienced 'pump lock' once again.

A quick email pinged its way to Ernest Hill company asking their 'owls' whether the symptoms I described sounded like a pump issue, received a reply almost 'by return'. According to a resident technical expert I had in fact described the classic symptoms of pump failure resulting from lack of lubrication or one or more failed seals. According to Hill's this generally happens to pumps sooner or later, usually after about 3 years' use. Their technical boffin added that most often it turns out that the 'culprit' is a small green-coloured o-ring that does the real heavy-duty work of the pump. (Aaargh, the infamous green seal!)

 

Now, I happen to live in rural South Africa and there are no air gunsmiths plying their trade anywhere near to me. Also, I like to be self-reliant as far as my skills, tools and time permit. So I decided to service the Hill pump myself and ordered a replacement seal kit from Hill's South African agent.

 

While I was waiting for the seals to arrive I stripped down my 2 pcps (A Career 707 Carbine and a Sumatra 2500 Carbine) for a long-overdue inspection of their air cylinders. I was pleased to note that there was no sign of any rust in the cylinders whatsoever. Sehr interesting I thought since I have to confess that I have been very negligent about changing the Dry Pack that I fitted as an accessory for the pump.

 

Long story short, the new seal kit arrived, I dismantled the pump, cleaned off all the old silicone grease with White Spirit (known for some unknown reason as Mineral Turps over here) and made sure all parts were thoroughly dry. Next I replaced the seals one-by-one having first lubricated them with a smear of silicone grease. Finally I lubricated the sliding parts of the pump sparingly with a smear of silicone grease and put everything back together. And would you believe it - it worked! Fan-friggin-tastic! The pump is now restored to its original performance.

 

As an aside, on dismantling the Hill Mk2 pump I couldn't fail to be impressed by its robust build quality. It remined my of my old BSA push bike which had a Sturmey Archer three-speed gear and bore the legend "Built like a Gun".

 

Living as I do in rural South Africa choosing a pump over a dive bottle is a no-brainer. A 300 kilometer round trip to the nearest dive centre to refill a scuba bottle would cost me approximately £30 in petrol alone. (Although an ex-pat, I'm Yorkshire born and bred) And how fitting it is that Hill pumps are manufactered in my home town of Sheffield.

 

Chris

 

as I read this I am in Sheffield!

 

I to stripped my hill pump mk2 3 weeks ago due to the same fault! and as you did admired of the build quality and replaced only the main green o ring with some silicone grease and hay presto back in full working order after it lock solid the week before.

 

I have no checked the bottle of my gun for rust tho.

 

like you not only does the pump provide cheep, independent filling but filling up to 250 bar each time has sure made me fitter and stronger with fac air!

 

pumps are great.

[Bankzi 2]

Can you get the bottles from your local industrial gas supplier?

[ben.o 2]

"A 300 kilometer round trip to the nearest dive centre to refill a scuba bottle would cost me approximately £30 in petrol alone."

 

What does 300km work out at here? Maybe a tank at £75!!

 

It's early days for me but I used to run a bottle and sold it ages ago at uni. Luckily I never did sell the daystate harrier it was for and recently resucrected it with an FX pump. The quality seems good but I hear lots about the hills. I've been surprised after the horror storries on how hard it is at that it is, infact, really not that hard! You don't have to do it in one sitting and at pace - but I agree with the other comments don't do it just before you expect to pull a steady bead standing unsupported on a 50yard mark!!

[HIN 2]

The important thing with a pump is that you have control! You can stop at the spot in the pressure curve your airgun likes. While, with a scuba tank, it's hard to stop at right the exact point because the pressure rises very fast.

Also, once a scuba tank or carbon fiber tank starts losing its pressure, you cannot put more into a gun than is available in the tank. But, if you don't feel the difference, there is no point in asking. Good question, good topic!

[KurtH 74]

The important thing with a pump is that you have control! You can stop at the spot in the pressure curve your airgun likes. While, with a scuba tank, it's hard to stop at right the exact point because the pressure rises very fast.

Also, once a scuba tank or carbon fiber tank starts losing its pressure, you cannot put more into a gun than is available in the tank. But, if you don't feel the difference, there is no point in asking. Good question, good topic!Erm, i

Erm....It's not hard to stop at the exact point at all....It's really easy....You just open the valve slowly and keep it that way, slowly opening as you go....Its EASY!!!!

[Guest JLD91]

 

The important thing with a pump is that you have control! You can stop at the spot in the pressure curve your airgun likes. While, with a scuba tank, it's hard to stop at right the exact point because the pressure rises very fast.

Also, once a scuba tank or carbon fiber tank starts losing its pressure, you cannot put more into a gun than is available in the tank. But, if you don't feel the difference, there is no point in asking. Good question, good topic!Erm, i

Erm....It's not hard to stop at the exact point at all....It's really easy....You just open the valve slowly and keep it that way, slowly opening as you go....Its EASY!!!!

 

 

I also use the scuba tank and have not found any problems with it as of yet, i open the valve slowly and find it works really well.

 

However i can imagine some people do connect the tank and just open the valve fully, which is what i did the first time, and as i panicked shut the valve off instantly...Could say a lesson learned.

[murph81 6]

Some great info in this thread, I'm finding it hard to decide whether I should get a pump or a tank.

 

I have access to a diving air compressor at work so I'm leaning towards a tank, I like what I've read about the Hill pumps too though!

[DTS01 23]

murph,

 

I bought a webley accupump this week - a new 3 stage pump and its great, i can fill my BSA R10 in less than a couple of minutes from around 80bar up to 200bar with relative ease

 

theres a little effort involved but its nothing like they used to be and my RFD actually recommends pumps over tanks

[murph81 6]

I ended up going for a 7 Litre 300 Bar cylinder from Best Fittings, it comes with everything I need to get started.

 

The fact that I have access to diving compressors at work made it a bit of a no brainer.

 

All I need now is my license so I can collect my rifle!

[Nathan1991 25]

Hi there,

 

There are clear pros and cons of both here a a few;

 

Bottle pros

 

1- quickness in filling

2- no effort required

 

Bottle cons

 

1- needs testing

2- requires storage

3- expensive

 

Pump pros

 

1- no testing required

2- very portable

 

Pump cons

 

1- VERY VERY VERY hard work!!!!!!

2- practicality vs cost ratio

3- takes much longer than bottle to fill

 

Hope this helps a little, ps if money isn't an issue go for the bottle and if you do one tip; BUY NEW!! Compressed bottles of air can be extremely dangerous especially if it has incurred a hairline fracture.

 

ATB Nathan

[ultrasephil 0]

I've found that at my local plinking range by the time most people have gone to there cars to refill from tanks and came back I can have my ultra se filled with an fx pump and be back to shooting.

So it the pump for me because air is free,and I'm tight fisted.

And I have found the more you use the pump the easier it gets.

[deanothefish 8]

I got a 4litre bottle that gives me 20 fills cost £147 incl delivery and a handle and costs £2 to fill way cheaper than a pump and the guy who fills them knows no need to test for years as he kknows its for air rifles .

Edited September 20, 2014 by deanothefish

[j j m 6,536]

Dive bottle for me