Is it me...?

[The_Oakster 2]

I am just starting in shooting and I have submitted applications for my SGC and FAC, but in the meantime I purchased an air rifle to get me in the swing of things and get me out and about on my permissions to see what I will be able to do on both. With the air rifle I will just be after rabbits.

 

I have been out several times, in the day time, at dusk and into early evening but I don't seem to be successful at all. Starting from the beginning here is what I have done so far:

 

The air rifle is a Norica Marvic Gold .177. It came with a Hawke 3-9 x 50 scope and a poor looking plastic bi-pod that you rest the barrel on. The pellets are Norica pellets, (no grain on the tin). Target shooting from the prone position, using the bi-pod, at about 30yds seems a bit hit and miss. I fire 5 shots at a time, 4 of which will be in a group of between 2 - 4cms and there is normally a wayward one which will be anywhere within 2 inches of the main group. I can't seem to adjust the scope to correct where the main group falls as the group is never in the same place and adjustments don't seem to correct this. I have no idea why there is always one which goes astray.

 

As for actual shooting at the rabbits, there seems to be very few although even if I get the odd shot off, the chances of me hitting it are slim . In the evenings I see perhaps 2-4. And when I went at night, a quick scan of the fields showed no more than 2-3 hopping about. Based on this apparent lack of rabbits I know I will get despondent and lose interest.

 

I am going out on my own so I have no one to advise me on what I may be doing wrong so I guess you lot will have to guide me through my inexperience

 

Questions:

 

1. Is my rifle capable of the intended job?

2. Is the scope up to the job?

3. What can I do to try to improve my target practice (is it me or is it the equipment)?

4. Is the numbers of rabbits I see a sign that there are only a few or is this the amount that most people would expect to see and take the chances that they have?

[secretagentmole 1,701]

Dear Chap, first read Pianoman's post about shooting in the Rifle Reviews section. Then calm down dear! (Sorry going all Michael Winner on you). If you are crashing about like a rookie landing a Harrier jet no self respecting rabbit is going to wait for you to get into position. You will scare off all and bundry (deliberate mistake there)!

 

Now you must learn about camouflage, stalking and patience as well. Get yourself into a good position and wait. Be prepared for a long wait. But you will be able to get a shot off and kill a rabbit, once you have mastered shooting your gun. It seems able to deliver a pellet at speed, just learn how to hold and shoot it, remember that a new gun may require leading in (that means you have to fire about 100 odd pellets through it before it becomes consistant), you can then adjust your scope properly.

 

Take your time and study the shooting tips on how to shoot properly. Then concentrate on your hunting technique, it will all come together sooner than you think, trust me!

 

Your rifle is up to the job, I have used a Hawke 3-9x50 on a springer rifle (Webley .177) and made kill shots with it. You must remember the click increments on the dial are for 100 yards, at 30 yards you have to make 4 times the number of movements to get the same amount of movement that you would at 100 yards!

 

Edited to say I know it should be 3, but I give it 4 and then bring it back!

Edited March 29, 2011 by secretagentmole

[andyfr1968 772]

The first thing you need to do is bin the bi-pod, springers and pods don't mix. The gun MUST be able to recoil in it's own way or your accuracy will never be consistant. If you're shooting prone, rest the rifle on something soft and keep a very gentle hold on the gun. As Mole's said, read Piannoman's thread that's been pinned The best way I can describe best how to hold a springer is that you're not really holding it at all, just providing support for it so that gravity doesn't break your gun for you.

 

Second, bin the Norica pellets. They're not very good quality, mate and that really won't help. It's a very long time since I had anything to do with Norica's rifles so I can't recomend a specific pellet but as a general rule try a selection of pellets from H and N, RSW, Air Arms, JSB and Falcon. Not all airguns like the same pellet best, even two seemingly identical guns may shoot differently with the same type of pellet. Funny things, airguns...

 

Once you've got your accuracy issues sorted then and only then, think about hunting

 

Cheers.

[darren watson 14]

my first guess would be the gun and pellets. My mates got a Norica Dragon but Iv'e never used it, I'm led to believe that they're cheap/budget rifles but ,I've known people pull off some very good shooting with rifles that are nothing more than laughable! Have a go with some good quality pellets: Air Arms Field/Diabolo, RWS superdomes, Crosman Premier/Accupell, H&N FTT, Falcon Accuracy Plus, Bisley Magnum seem to be big boys of pellets. i think the scope would be more than up to the job, a lot of people on here seem to get on with them. A guy on here called "pianoman" has a thread with all you need to know about shooting prone if you think it could be your hold/positioning/technique that could be to blame.

 

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/187884-prone-position-stability/

 

as for rabbiting, i've no idea mate all i ever shoot is pigeons and squirrels with the occasional corvid. From what i can gather you need patience, by the bucket full, and to have a good look about your permission, see where they run to if you scare them off and just generally learn the land you shoot like the back of your hand. there'll probably be someone along with miles more experience than me soon.

atb,

darren.

[darren watson 14]

Ha! like the peeps who just posted, a million times quicker than i can type!

[secretagentmole 1,701]

You may find it an advantage to learn about rabbit crap! There is two types you know, one is soft squidgy stuff, like a good night on Guiness crap, the other type is hard round ball like crap, rabbits eat the second type again to get all the nutrients out of the stuff they eat! If you see anywhere where you get loads of the small round hard droppings, find a good position to get a shot off to that place, as rabbits will go back to it to eat the crap! Honestly!

[pianoman 3,587]

I am just starting in shooting and I have submitted applications for my SGC and FAC, but in the meantime I purchased an air rifle to get me in the swing of things and get me out and about on my permissions to see what I will be able to do on both. With the air rifle I will just be after rabbits.

 

I have been out several times, in the day time, at dusk and into early evening but I don't seem to be successful at all. Starting from the beginning here is what I have done so far:

 

The air rifle is a Norica Marvic Gold .177. It came with a Hawke 3-9 x 50 scope and a poor looking plastic bi-pod that you rest the barrel on. The pellets are Norica pellets, (no grain on the tin). Target shooting from the prone position, using the bi-pod, at about 30yds seems a bit hit and miss. I fire 5 shots at a time, 4 of which will be in a group of between 2 - 4cms and there is normally a wayward one which will be anywhere within 2 inches of the main group. I can't seem to adjust the scope to correct where the main group falls as the group is never in the same place and adjustments don't seem to correct this. I have no idea why there is always one which goes astray.

 

As for actual shooting at the rabbits, there seems to be very few although even if I get the odd shot off, the chances of me hitting it are slim . In the evenings I see perhaps 2-4. And when I went at night, a quick scan of the fields showed no more than 2-3 hopping about. Based on this apparent lack of rabbits I know I will get despondent and lose interest.

 

I am going out on my own so I have no one to advise me on what I may be doing wrong so I guess you lot will have to guide me through my inexperience

 

Questions:

 

1. Is my rifle capable of the intended job?

2. Is the scope up to the job?

3. What can I do to try to improve my target practice (is it me or is it the equipment)?

4. Is the numbers of rabbits I see a sign that there are only a few or is this the amount that most people would expect to see and take the chances that they have?

[/quo

 

 

Hi Oakster. Clearly, you are in need of some guidance here! So, we'll begin with some important basics and some honest answers to your questions. You cannot buy precision accuracy as a shooter, regardless of what you buy or what type of shooting you wish to partake; it has to be learned and practiced like learning to play a music instrument. And like even the finest crafted instruments, it's only as good as the level of the player. It is not about simply point, shoot and you'll hit the target; far from it!

 

Having learned shooting and rifle hold techniques to an acceptable standard of hunting accuracy in your shooting technique, with the various firearms and air rifle you intend to hunt with, you need to learn FIELDCRAFT Or, the art of camouflage, concealement, stalking and ambushing. If you can be seen, heard, smelled and felt approaching, you might as well go home.

 

Until you can shoot and kill any animal legally permitted, with humane shots to the brain and ensure a clean, swift despatch, you need to keep to practicing only.

 

Answers to your immediate questions are:

 

1. Not a hope in hell with a bipod stuck on it's barrel! A recoiling spring rifle needs to be aimed and tamed in the hands and at the shoulder only. There is a technique that you need to learn for shooting any rifle but spring powered air rifles are particularly sensitive to how you hold them. And a bipod or any solid rest really buggers that all up! Get rid of the bipod; it is going to mess up any hope of shooting this or any spring rifle really accurately. Poor trigger often let's the Norica Marvic Gold down as an accurate hunter. It's a shame as I actually really like it's handling and proportions. Some of the triggers I've shot with on Noricas are stiff as hell and pull the rifle off the aim. The Marvic Gold not a bad rifle for the money, better than the others they make and a good plinker for tin cans and informal target shooting in the garden. But, it's not a precise, accurate rifle as a hunting arm.

 

Frankly, you are doing really well to hit the groups you are at 30 yards! The fliers are down to the rifle barrel bouncing on that bipod with recoil and vibration. See how your groups should tighten up and shrink when you shoot without it. Downsides with the Norica Marvic Gold. It becomes increasingly twangy on the spring after a while, the components internally wear out rather quickly causing deviations in power and thus accuracy also. In short, you will outshoot this rifle very quickly and you'll need another, better quality rifle to go to the next level in your shooting developement.

 

Effective, precision accurate spring piston air rifles for hunting are expensive for a reason. They are quality-built for purpose. And they do it all absolutely superbly.

 

They are also very cost-effective to begin shooting with.

 

Most people spend several hundred pounds or more on cheap kit to replace worse cheap kit that also cost a hundred quid or so, before the penny drops and they finally, buy a rifle and scope and a carefully chosen pellet that really begins to teach them the art of shooting. And would have cost them a lot less if they'd have started with it

 

2. Just any scope will not automatically suit your rifle. This would need to rated for recoiling spring rifle. and even then, it's not a given that this is a perfect match. Not on this rifle as it's currently set up. If the rifle is not up to the task, what good will any scope do? See how you get on with the bipod off!

 

3. An awful lot of practice at paper targets, knockovers, reset targets, stones, anything that stretches your aim.

 

4. The poor numbers of rabbits are possibly due to your inexperiences in fieldcraft, or there is a lot of shooting/hunting taking place that's making them wary. Or the better scoff they want is someplace else. Find out where if your permission covers it. If they are heading for land that falls outside of your permitted boundaries, you need to seek further permission to go on and shoot over it. You are committing the Offence of "Armed Trespass" in UK law. It carries severe penalties so, watch out.

 

If I were you...

 

To begin with, I would get all the practice I can with the Marvic Gold and scope and take a realistic look at how it performs in your hands and learn the techniques of prone position stability and correct hold technique. When it's time to trade in the Marvic Gold, get one of the following air rifles that will more than meet your requirements in the calibre of your choice and raise your personal standards of shooting that no other rifle will.

 

Weihrauch HW95K break barrel.

Weihrauch HW80/HW80K break barrel. (The real McCoy. Absolutely, the finest break barrel spring piston air rifle out there.)

Weihrauch HW97K Underlever.

Weihrauch HW77 underlever. (My personal favourite)

 

Air Arms TX200HC Carbine. Underlever.

Air Arms TX200 rifle. Underlever.

Air Arms Prosport underlever.

 

Other chaps will have additional suggestions of their own here but, these are all long-proven and extremely accurate spring rifles that will seriously do the hunting business if you can provide the skills!

 

Some food for thoughts to get you started!

 

Simon

Edited March 30, 2011 by pianoman

[pianoman 3,587]

You may find it an advantage to learn about rabbit crap! There is two types you know, one is soft squidgy stuff, like a good night on Guiness crap, the other type is hard round ball like crap, rabbits eat the second type again to get all the nutrients out of the stuff they eat! If you see anywhere where you get loads of the small round hard droppings, find a good position to get a shot off to that place, as rabbits will go back to it to eat the crap! Honestly!

Moley you are priceless! Let's keep the crap to a minimum here eh? The fellow has enough on here without a learned dissertation on Rabbit shite!

 

Simon

 

Edit to add...You know all those pellets of Rabbit poo that lie all over your shoot...are they the bloody rabbit's leftovers then?!!

Edited March 30, 2011 by pianoman

[andyfr1968 772]

What about the 90, you tart!!!!?????

[pianoman 3,587]

Hahaha GOTCHA!! I just knew you'd leap in with that one Andy!

 

Yep the Weihrauch HW90 is a Gas Ram powered break barrel and it's a beauty....particularly in .20....

 

Or so I'm lead to believe!

 

(It is seriously lovely!)

 

Simon

[andyfr1968 772]

Hahaha GOTCHA!! I just knew you'd leap in with that one Andy!

 

Yep the Weihrauch HW90 is a Gas Ram powered break barrel and it's a beauty....particularly in .20....

 

Or so I'm lead to believe!

 

(It is seriously lovely!)

 

Simon

 

It is when the pillock behind it does his stuff...

 

Bad day today....

[The_Oakster 2]

Cheers guys. I'm happy with my prone positioning and stabity and I think that any tweaks with that will come from repeated practice. However that will change with my losing the bi-pod. Looking around, I have seen some guidance on holding a springer very loosely - not gripping the pistol grip and only resting the rifle on the front hand so I'll give that a try.

 

The pellets were beginning to become my scapegoat for the random fliers so I'll see what my local stockist sells and see what difference that makes. Is there a specific grain that would be better?

 

I won't be changing my air rifle. I simply can't afford it. But I definitely agree with getting a good one as suggested once I am sure that I can shoot properly. Lots to learn before that!

 

Fieldcraft wise, I can get my self into some bushes near to the rabbits and I am learning the patience needed to just sit and wait and the rabbits do come out, one even came out and sat within a coupe of metres of me. I'll admit I can't stalk rabbits for toffee though! But like you've said, until I can be more certain of regular groups I might as well wait.

 

And last but by no means least I have to learn about the rabbit crap! I'll be honest and say its not something I've been looking in to but if if helps....

[secretagentmole 1,701]

You may find it an advantage to learn about rabbit crap! There is two types you know, one is soft squidgy stuff, like a good night on Guiness crap, the other type is hard round ball like crap, rabbits eat the second type again to get all the nutrients out of the stuff they eat! If you see anywhere where you get loads of the small round hard droppings, find a good position to get a shot off to that place, as rabbits will go back to it to eat the crap! Honestly!

Moley you are priceless! Let's keep the crap to a minimum here eh? The fellow has enough on here without a learned dissertation on Rabbit shite!

 

Simon

 

Edit to add...You know all those pellets of Rabbit poo that lie all over your shoot...are they the bloody rabbit's leftovers then?!!

 

Must be, there are loads of the little round pellets in areas the rabbits congregate, I must get the camera out and photograph the crap I suppose.

[markha 99]

Try some RWS superdome pellets.

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

Hi Oakster.

 

 

Pellet wise, might be worth trying AA Fields 8.44grn as a starting point.

 

PM me your address and Ill send you some to try.

 

Others may be able to help with a few of a different brand?

 

Might save you a few bob.

 

 

ATB.

 

 

Bill.