byrney 2 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I already have a .22 fac Air rifle on my licence for which I know my licence is open, a few months ago I made a variation from a 1.77 Air rifle which was also on my licence to a 0.22rf. When I made the variation I asked the f.a.o if this would also be open but he said not, however when they sent my licence back this was the wording used. Sounds open to me but i don't want to ring them in case they change their mind, tell me what you think. The .22 air rifle, .22rf rile, sound moderator and ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for the destruction of vermin and for zeroing on ranges, or land for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Quote Link to post
danw 1,748 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 If it was closed it would say something like "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police" or something like that so I would say you have an open ticket Quote Link to post
mattydski 560 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I already have a .22 fac Air rifle on my licence for which I know my licence is open, a few months ago I made a variation from a 1.77 Air rifle which was also on my licence to a 0.22rf. When I made the variation I asked the f.a.o if this would also be open but he said not, however when they sent my licence back this was the wording used. Sounds open to me but i don't want to ring them in case they change their mind, tell me what you think. The .22 air rifle, .22rf rile, sound moderator and ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for the destruction of vermin and for zeroing on ranges, or land for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. Yes, you have an open ticket, unless it carries the 'caveat' as already mentioned by Dan Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) The .22 air rifle, .22rf rile, sound moderator and ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for the destruction of vermin and for zeroing on ranges, or land for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. That bit in bold italics doesn't make any sense. Check the wording, as I doubt that's what it actually says. Edited March 27, 2011 by matt_hooks Quote Link to post
spanj 11 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 If it was closed it would say something like "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police" or something like that so I would say you have an open ticket doesnt this just mean that the land has to have been checked as suitable for whatever calibre (s) are on your ticket. I have this wording on my ticket and my FEO says its open...... Quote Link to post
danw 1,748 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 If it was closed it would say something like "land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police" or something like that so I would say you have an open ticket doesnt this just mean that the land has to have been checked as suitable for whatever calibre (s) are on your ticket. I have this wording on my ticket and my FEO says its open...... If you have to have the land cleared in any respect then you do not have an open licence, for it to be open all you need is authority from landowner my licence is classed as open and that means I don't need the police to clear the land for calibre or otherwise with a bit of luck matt hooks will be along and explain it better than I can word it :thumbs: Quote Link to post
dadioles 68 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 It is quite simple really. In every case you need the permission of the landowner (obviously) and you will be foolish not to have that in writing. The licence terms "open" and "closed" don't actually exist but that is how we describe two particular licence conditions, they have to be called something. All licences are restrictive in some way, they all contain "conditions". With an "open" licence the shooter can decide if the land on which he wants to shoot is suitable for a particular calibre - he can "clear" his own land. As long as he has the landowners permission to shoot there is no need for any police involvement in land checks etc. The shooter has the authority and the responsibility to decide where he shoots. With a "closed" licence, the land has to have been inspected by the police and deemed suitable ("passed") for shooting with a particular calibre. You MUST check with the police that the land on which you intend to shoot has been cleared by them and approved. The word of a friend is not good enough - your licence is at risk! There are differences between forces and some will ask that if you have a closed licence, you should send them a "Land Authority" signed by the landowner which details the land on which you wish to shoot and the calibre to be used. They will then check their database to see if that land has already been inspected. If it has, they will confirm that you can shoot there and add a note to your records. If it has not been inspected and "cleared" for that calibre you must not shoot there until it has been inspected and approval given. You should make the application to the police force that issued your licence. If the land is in another area, your police force will contact the firearms dept in the area where the land is and if neccesary arrange for them to inspect it. Depending on how helpful your police firearms department is, or who you get put through to, it may only take a quick phone call to check that land is cleared and that you can then go ahead and use it (or not). On the other hand it may take several weeks for checks to be made before you can shoot, even though you have the landowners permission, as with a closed licence you also need the permission of the police, that is the condition under which the licence was issued to you. Typical wording in the case of a closed licence: ".... on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." And an open licence: ".... on land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot." i.e. the "condition" has been removed. Home Office Guidance does not state a length of time that a licence has to be held before it can be made "open" but most police forces seem to leave it until first renewal (5 years) or have their own internal guidline, maybe 3 years. Basically you need to demonstrate a need, perhaps you have a lot of permissions, and also demonstrate competance, perhaps you fire many thousands of rounds in different circumstances, as opposed to someone who is an infrequent hobby shooter. Some people have been lucky and got an open ticket on first application. Back to the initial question... The wording as reproduced in the initial post does not make sense. It appears to be an open licence as there is no mention of "land deemed suitable..." BUT it does look as though the licence may have been mistyped or misworded and that would not be a defence in law as it would be seen as your duty to clarify the wording as a mistake has obviously been made. My advice is that you should go back to your firearms dept, point out the problem and ask them very nicely to re-word it so that there is no confusion, and make it "open". In my view the concept of a "closed" licence is daft. If we are responsible enough to be allowed firearms we are responsible enough to decide if it is safe to shoot. Any piece of "approved" land will have safe areas with good backstops and unsafe areas where no-one in their right mind would let off a bullet. It is our decision and our responsibility. Most farmland has already been "cleared" historically - at least for .22 and that is taken to include .17HMR. Quote Link to post
byrney 2 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 The .22 air rifle, .22rf rile, sound moderator and ammunition to which this certificate relates shall be used for the destruction of vermin and for zeroing on ranges, or land for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. That bit in bold italics doesn't make any sense. Check the wording, as I doubt that's what it actually says. I've checked the wording and that's exactly as its written, doesn't make sense to me either. Cheers for the replies, I think the best bet is to give them a call and get it clarified. Better safe than sorry. Quote Link to post
Deker 3,478 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 My region sends out an accompanying letter with the FAC/SGC which in simplicity says, CHECK IT, and if anything is wrong or doesn't make sense send it back, or it is YOUR fault! Good cop out, and they cock up all the time, they kindly issued me an AUTOMATIC shotgun! Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 My region sends out an accompanying letter with the FAC/SGC which in simplicity says, CHECK IT, and if anything is wrong or doesn't make sense send it back, or it is YOUR fault! Good cop out, and they cock up all the time, they kindly issued me an AUTOMATIC shotgun! They might SAY it's your fault, but in a court of law I reckon they'd be hard pushed to convict it. Not that I'd like to be the test case though! Quote Link to post
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