Without the "magic box"

[Mosby 355]

Are there any books on digging back in the day that are clearly informative on using tools to find the dogs previous to locator collars? I personally like to dig by sound rather than a little box. I'd like to learn all the old methods of locating dogs. I don't have hard digging where i live so locators haven't been a necessity. Plus, I like hunting the way it's been done for centuries, by ear. I breed dogs that are vocal and I'd like to couple my dogs attributes with some expertise on my part. There are no terriermen in my parts of the world that have been doing it since before locators. I have heard of a few tricks but I would like to get very proficient with my locating.

[fat man 4,741]

A good steel bar about 4 to 5ft long and good hearing + A terrier with good voice and dont go diging on a windy day.

[p3d 879]

A good steel bar about 4 to 5ft long and good hearing + A terrier with good voice and dont go diging on a windy day.

 

Agree with FM.

Also listen at the the entrance, if more than one entrance check them all.

This will give you a general direction to start with. Use a long branch to probe the entrance if unsure.

Clear the area of cover at the point you suspect. If in an open area it is much easier.

Put you ear to the ground and listen. (lie flat) You may feel thumping first depending on the dog.

Drop a probe with the bar being careful with the force used. (some people get a bit excited at a dig).

Push the probe down 6 to 12 inches( depending on the soil), rotate the bar to enlarge the hole and push again.

You will feel the bar drop into the tube if you are in the correct spot.

Locate the tube and then locate the point of contact in front of the terrier.

Drop another probe behind the terrier 3/4 feet back to find the tube direction. This may take a couple of attempts.

Dig a trench perpendicular to the tube between the quarry and the terrier.

This will give you room to work once you lift the terrier.

 

This is how we did it before the Box.(Other people will have their own method)

But my advice would be even if you plan to improve your skills at the old methods.

Collar the dog up everytime and have the box switched off in you pocket.

If things get difficult you have a backup plan.

 

There are very few detailed accounts of digging methods in old books I have seen.

J.Lucas had an group of paid diggers and trenched from the entrance to the quarry.

E.Chapman seemed to trench from the entrance by his own account.

P.Burn is the only serious attempt to address tools/techniques as a subject.

 

The Mattock was a useful tool but seems to have fallen out of favour.

Not sure why this is. Never knew a farmer or labourer who would go digging a trench

for any purpose and would not bring a pick or mattock to break out the ground.

The shovel was used to clear away the broken soil out of the trench.

As I said this was our method.

 

JMO

ATB

Edited March 24, 2011 by p3d

[Guest dee mac]

A good steel bar about 4 to 5ft long and good hearing + A terrier with good voice and dont go diging on a windy day.

 

Agree with FM.

Also listen at the the entrance, if more than one entrance check them all.

This will give you a general direction to start with. Use a long branch to probe the entrance if unsure.

Clear the area of cover at the point you suspect. If in an open area it is much easier.

Put you ear to the ground and listen. (lie flat) You may feel thumping first depending on the dog.

Drop a probe with the bar being careful with the force used. (some people get a bit excited at a dig).

Push the probe down 6 to 12 inches( depending on the soil), rotate the bar to enlarge the hole and push again.

You will feel the bar drop into the tube if you are in the correct spot.

Locate the tube and then locate the point of contact in front of the terrier.

Drop another probe behind the terrier 3/4 feet back to find the tube direction. This may take a couple of attempts.

Dig a trench perpendicular to the tube between the quarry and the terrier.

This will give you room to work once you lift the terrier.

 

This is how we did it before the Box.(Other people will have their own method)

But my advice would be even if you plan to improve your skills at the old methods.

Collar the dog up everytime and have the box switched off in you pocket.

If things get difficult you have a backup plan.

 

There are very few detailed accounts of digging methods in old books I have seen.

J.Lucas had an group of paid diggers and trenched from the entrance to the quarry.

E.Chapman seemed to trench from the entrance by his own account.

P.Burn is the only serious attempt to address tools/techniques as a subject.

 

The Mattock was a useful tool but seems to have fallen out of favour.

Not sure why this is. Never knew a farmer or labourer who would go digging a trench

for any purpose and would not bring a pick or mattock to break out the ground.

The shovel was used to clear away the broken soil out of the trench.

As I said this was our method.

 

JMO

ATB

never leave home without a pick fibre glass shaft on it as the wooden shaft can give up at worst possible time we call it the third man.

[Mosby 355]

Alright. I made a bar but it was too thin for summer digging and bends. I've been using the stick method of seeing how deep the hole is by reaching my arm in with it and judging distance. Listening with many holes is a pain. I used to have a little kid around all the time who could pinpoint exactly where the dog was. He was incredible. I've learned most of the tricks that were listed here I've just gotta get the tools for it. I think a good strong bar that I could work a hole in the ground and have a good listen will really be the trick. I just realized I better up my game when i dug in too far behind the terrier, reached in and pulled her out nearly drowned. She had been shoved in tight with her head under water. If I had been two minuts late on that I wouldn't have the bitch and she's been damn good. We had dropped two holes already to her thinking for sure we were right on top of her. Then she pushed in further through the water flooded part and we had to dig a gain. She was in real trouble then but by that point we knew well enough where to dig that we could reach her.

[Mosby 355]

Thanks p3d. That was really an informed post. I'm gonna get myself a bar worth havin. And a handy mattock for breaking tough earth. I had to call a buddy last year to run me one to where I was as my shovel was just bouncing off the ground.

[Guest busterdog]

A good steel bar about 4 to 5ft long and good hearing + A terrier with good voice and dont go diging on a windy day.

 

Agree with FM.

Also listen at the the entrance, if more than one entrance check them all.

This will give you a general direction to start with. Use a long branch to probe the entrance if unsure.

Clear the area of cover at the point you suspect. If in an open area it is much easier.

Put you ear to the ground and listen. (lie flat) You may feel thumping first depending on the dog.

Drop a probe with the bar being careful with the force used. (some people get a bit excited at a dig).

Push the probe down 6 to 12 inches( depending on the soil), rotate the bar to enlarge the hole and push again.

You will feel the bar drop into the tube if you are in the correct spot.

Locate the tube and then locate the point of contact in front of the terrier.

Drop another probe behind the terrier 3/4 feet back to find the tube direction. This may take a couple of attempts.

Dig a trench perpendicular to the tube between the quarry and the terrier.

This will give you room to work once you lift the terrier.

 

This is how we did it before the Box.(Other people will have their own method)

But my advice would be even if you plan to improve your skills at the old methods.

Collar the dog up everytime and have the box switched off in you pocket.

If things get difficult you have a backup plan.

 

There are very few detailed accounts of digging methods in old books I have seen.

J.Lucas had an group of paid diggers and trenched from the entrance to the quarry.

E.Chapman seemed to trench from the entrance by his own account.

P.Burn is the only serious attempt to address tools/techniques as a subject.

 

The Mattock was a useful tool but seems to have fallen out of favour.

Not sure why this is. Never knew a farmer or labourer who would go digging a trench

for any purpose and would not bring a pick or mattock to break out the ground.

The shovel was used to clear away the broken soil out of the trench.

As I said this was our method.

 

JMO

ATB

never leave home without a pick fibre glass shaft on it as the wooden shaft can give up at worst possible time we call it the third man.

 

That took me back, i once sent a mate a mile or more for a pick and broke it on the first swing lol.

[steveS.Yorks 161]

Ive read some f****n bullshit on this forum in my time but i think some of this takes the biscuit.

 

"TRENCHING" buy some golf clubs and do us a favour.

 

ps if youre after fox theres nothing better than a windy day.

[fat man 4,741]

Ive read some f****n bullshit on this forum in my time but i think some of this takes the biscuit.

 

"TRENCHING" buy some golf clubs and do us a favour.

 

ps if youre after fox theres nothing better than a windy day.

The thread was diging to dogs without locater,not good days to get them in,ever try listening for a terrier to ground on a windy day,maybe you did'nt dig pre locater.

[p3d 879]

Ive read some f****n bullshit on this forum in my time but i think some of this takes the biscuit.

 

"TRENCHING" buy some golf clubs and do us a favour.

 

ps if youre after fox theres nothing better than a windy day.

 

Did you actually READ this thread?

Do you understand what perpendicular means?

Do you understand what opening up between terrier and quarry means?

Do you think these posts advocated Trenching or staying at home on Windy days?

Edited March 24, 2011 by p3d

[POSSUM 13]

stainless....

[steveS.Yorks 161]

Well saying things like Lucas/Chapman trenched looks like advocating trenching to me?

 

Poking at entrances with sticks? must be "short tubes where you come from mate? Listening at entrances is very very limited in its effectivness.

 

And i started digging well before locators were available.

 

My view is, if you have the massive advantage of pinpoint accuracy [with a locator] you should use it,nothing clever about losing a good dog because you want to arse about doing things "traditionally"

 

Theres nothing wrong with practiceing traditional "finding skills" sometimes technology lets you down,but i would allways use a locator on a dog.

 

And someone said "dont go digging on windy days" well thats going to cost you foxes,i know why,do you?

[events co-ordinator 353]

A good stethoscope allows you to locate the terrier to a depth of 16 feet depending on soil type some of the guys from the SWTC have been using this for years and it saved many a terrier, one after being to ground for 7 days. PM me if you need more info.

[Waz 4,274]

Steve. I think you have missed the point of the thread.l

I can find dogs to ground without a locater as can some of the lads i dig with, but not all.

In my humble opinion.... You only learn by practising, and not just once or twice at a few feet.... If you never try to find a dog at work until you actually have to due to collar/box failure then you are more likely to loose a "good dog".

 

Possum, i would use that t bar to find mole runs. Ill try and take a photo of the bar being used in a day or 2 (callout to do).

[p3d 879]

Well saying things like Lucas/Chapman trenched looks like advocating trenching to me?

 

Poking at entrances with sticks? must be "short tubes where you come from mate? Listening at entrances is very very limited in its effectivness.

 

And i started digging well before locators were available.

 

My view is, if you have the massive advantage of pinpoint accuracy [with a locator] you should use it,nothing clever about losing a good dog because you want to arse about doing things "traditionally"

 

Theres nothing wrong with practiceing traditional "finding skills" sometimes technology lets you down,but i would allways use a locator on a dog.

 

And someone said "dont go digging on windy days" well thats going to cost you foxes,i know why,do you?

 

 

Steve, you tend to take a scattergun approach to your answers.

Your replies are to 3 different people on 3 different posts.

I will deal with my post. the other lads can answer you directly.

 

Mentioning 2 old books where the only detail on digging was trenching,

was in reply to question in the original post. (Any books from back in the day...?)

The first paragraph explained how WE dug DOWN onto the terrier in detail.

(Noting that there were other methods used by other people).

If WE did NOT trench, hard to see how I was endorsing trenching.

 

Listening at entrances and using a branch

to determine a GENERAL DIRECTION to start, should be clear and easy enough.

Limited yes, but it was one of the methods we employed.

 

If YOU dug before locators.

Why dont you post a reply to the original question?(i.e stay on topic)

The guy was looking for advice from people like you.

How did you and the guys you dug with cope with digging back then?

What tools did you use?

Any old books with details of digging / techniques that he could use?

 

The idea of using the locator as a back-up while he is learning these methods

is covered in the second paragraph. (Collared up dogs and locator switched off in his pocket)

 

Whether he wants to learn these methods is his choice.

And yes I know why a Fox is likely to be underground in bad weather.

 

ATB

Edited March 25, 2011 by p3d