leepieman123 8 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 hi all ive had my shotgun cert for 8 years naw and thinking off getting a .22 rimfire,i applyed for my fac before and was told they would give it to me if i bought another gun safe they said because i share my gun safe with my father i could not keep the .22 in there so in the end i stayed with the shotgun.at the moment ive sold my shotguns and my fathers sold his,could i keep it in this safe and tell them im the only person with the keys for the safe?and most off the farms i shoot on have been veted for rifles do all my farms have to be veted for the .22 or can i just go on any farm that i have permission on?last question will i be able too shoot foxes at close range with a rimfire?thanks all for reading sorry if i went on abit lol,lee Quote Link to post
hargreavesheber 93 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 If its you're 1st FAC, the firearms lot will prob have to have written permission off the land owners to say you can shoot there,maybe a farm visit. when they are confident you are safe with a firearm, you can apply for a OPEN CERTIFICATE, which gives you the right to go on any land with the land owners permission. As for the cabinet. I think you'll be ok, as long as you're the only key holder.. Foxes will drop with a .22, but it is illegal to shoot fox with a .22 rimfire in England and Wales.. Only illegal when you're caught of course..... Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 If its you're 1st FAC, the firearms lot will prob have to have written permission off the land owners to say you can shoot there,maybe a farm visit. when they are confident you are safe with a firearm, you can apply for a OPEN CERTIFICATE, which gives you the right to go on any land with the land owners permission. As for the cabinet. I think you'll be ok, as long as you're the only key holder.. Foxes will drop with a .22, but it is illegal to shoot fox with a .22 rimfire in England and Wales.. Only illegal when you're caught of course..... The written permission is neither here nor there. You'll be given a "closed" certificate first off, which means you can only shoot on land that has been checked and approved by the firearms officer for the relevant area. A lot of farms are already checked, so your first port of call will be the firearms licencing department of the area the land lies in. They will be able to tell you if the land is already approved. If it's not then you will need to wait for the FEO to come and check it before you can shoot it. If you have a lot of permissions, then you will probably be able to apply for the restrictive condition to be removed fairly soon. They like to see evidence that you are following the condition, and the more times you call and ask if an area is cleared, the sooner they will remove the restrictive condition. If you are the only person to have access to the cabinet (does your father still have his SGC? If so how will you prove that you are the only one to have access? Do you have a separate place to store the ammunition?) then you will have no problem. If your father has sold all his shotguns, then you have a good argument that he no longer needs, or has, access to the cabinet. As for shooting foxes with the .22, sorry Hargreaves but you're talking rubbish. It's completely legal to shoot a fox with the .22LR, as long as you have a condition on your licence that allows it. I've got what's called the "any other legal quarry" condition, which means the primary reason to hold the weapon is listed (for .22 LR it's vermin, ground game and pest birds, for .243 it's deer) and then "and any other legal quarry" which allows you the flexibility to occasionally take other species (for example fox with the .22) than those that are listed. If you don't have AOLQ, (some forces allow it, others don't) then you'll need a condition specifically allowing fox, again some forces will allow it, some won't. There is nothing, per se, that is illegal about shooting a fox with the .22LR, as long as it's not in contravention of any condition on your certificate. Quote Link to post
hargreavesheber 93 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 If its you're 1st FAC, the firearms lot will prob have to have written permission off the land owners to say you can shoot there,maybe a farm visit. when they are confident you are safe with a firearm, you can apply for a OPEN CERTIFICATE, which gives you the right to go on any land with the land owners permission. As for the cabinet. I think you'll be ok, as long as you're the only key holder.. Foxes will drop with a .22, but it is illegal to shoot fox with a .22 rimfire in England and Wales.. Only illegal when you're caught of course..... The written permission is neither here nor there. You'll be given a "closed" certificate first off, which means you can only shoot on land that has been checked and approved by the firearms officer for the relevant area. A lot of farms are already checked, so your first port of call will be the firearms licencing department of the area the land lies in. They will be able to tell you if the land is already approved. If it's not then you will need to wait for the FEO to come and check it before you can shoot it. If you have a lot of permissions, then you will probably be able to apply for the restrictive condition to be removed fairly soon. They like to see evidence that you are following the condition, and the more times you call and ask if an area is cleared, the sooner they will remove the restrictive condition. If you are the only person to have access to the cabinet (does your father still have his SGC? If so how will you prove that you are the only one to have access? Do you have a separate place to store the ammunition?) then you will have no problem. If your father has sold all his shotguns, then you have a good argument that he no longer needs, or has, access to the cabinet. As for shooting foxes with the .22, sorry Hargreaves but you're talking rubbish. It's completely legal to shoot a fox with the .22LR, as long as you have a condition on your licence that allows it. I've got what's called the "any other legal quarry" condition, which means the primary reason to hold the weapon is listed (for .22 LR it's vermin, ground game and pest birds, for .243 it's deer) and then "and any other legal quarry" which allows you the flexibility to occasionally take other species (for example fox with the .22) than those that are listed. If you don't have AOLQ, (some forces allow it, others don't) then you'll need a condition specifically allowing fox, again some forces will allow it, some won't. There is nothing, per se, that is illegal about shooting a fox with the .22LR, as long as it's not in contravention of any condition on your certificate. Well u learn something new every day, and i was sure shooting fox with a rimfire was illegal.. Read it somewhere... My firearms woman didn't seem too impressed with the idea... Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well u learn something new every day, and i was sure shooting fox with a rimfire was illegal.. Read it somewhere... My firearms woman didn't seem too impressed with the idea... Yeah, a lot of FEO's don't really understand the power of the humble .22LR. Not many will give fox as the main "reason to hold" a .22LR, but there is nothing illegal about shooting a fox with one unless your conditions preclude it. There are arguments about possible claims of causing un-necessary suffering, but a headshot at a sensible range (out to about 40 or 50 yards, depends how good a shot you are and how well you know the rifle) will cause virtually instant death. The LR doesn't have the punch to reliably get through the heavy muscles/bone, so chest shots are out, but it'll easily penetrate the skull. Quote Link to post
hargreavesheber 93 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well there's nowt on my licence so say not to shoot fox, just had a look!! Its more of a humane thing then eh!? I've dropped a fox at about 40yds with a 40grain sub. It dropped in its tracks!! Glad to read you're reply though pal! Quote Link to post
elvolcan 0 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Only illegal when you're caught of course..... Dont imply anything like that. Thanks Its actully perfectly legal when you have fox listed on your FAC for .22lr (like mine) If you dont have it listed dont do it, its a firearms offence. Cheers Quote Link to post
RicW 67 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Either "AOLQ" as Matt and Evo say, or ask at your interview for "Opportunistic" fox, explaining that while you won't be going out for fox, if Charley sticks his head out of a hedge 40 yards away he won't be pulling it back! Hargreaves.. - Home Office guidelines for FEOs, which a lot of FEOs never read, state that rimfires should not be granted "for the purpose of" shooting fox, which is probably the source of your confusion. Basically, they don't want trigger-happy idjits wounding foxes with longrange shots and leaving them to die in agony. No more do people on here. Ric Quote Link to post
dadioles 68 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Either "AOLQ" as Matt and Evo say, or ask at your interview for "Opportunistic" fox, explaining that while you won't be going out for fox, if Charley sticks his head out of a hedge 40 yards away he won't be pulling it back! Hargreaves.. - Home Office guidelines for FEOs, which a lot of FEOs never read, state that rimfires should not be granted "for the purpose of" shooting fox, which is probably the source of your confusion. Basically, they don't want trigger-happy idjits wounding foxes with longrange shots and leaving them to die in agony. No more do people on here. Ric I quite agree, use the right tool for the job and the appropriate tool will vary with range. If you cannot kill something humanely, don't take the shot. In my own case my certificate states - Additional conditions: (.17 HMR and .22LR) "...used for shooting vermin and ground game..." "use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife." I read that as meaning ok for opportunistic fox but of course NOT deer or anything else covered by other legislation. Quote Link to post
nod 285 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 when i shared a cabinet with my dad i had to get an ammo safe and a trigger lock for my .22 that was all what was needed Quote Link to post
leepieman123 8 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 when i shared a cabinet with my dad i had to get an ammo safe and a trigger lock for my .22 that was all what was needed last time i appplyed for it they told me that i had too get a differtn safe they didnt mention a trigger gaurd,good idea Quote Link to post
gundogbob 1 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 how many shot guns does cabnet hold not all scoped rifles will fit in small shotgun cabnets Quote Link to post
leepieman123 8 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 its a ten gun safits the deep ones it fits airguns in no probz Quote Link to post
elvolcan 0 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Either "AOLQ" as Matt and Evo say, or ask at your interview for "Opportunistic" fox, explaining that while you won't be going out for fox, if Charley sticks his head out of a hedge 40 yards away he won't be pulling it back! Hargreaves.. - Home Office guidelines for FEOs, which a lot of FEOs never read, state that rimfires should not be granted "for the purpose of" shooting fox, which is probably the source of your confusion. Basically, they don't want trigger-happy idjits wounding foxes with longrange shots and leaving them to die in agony. No more do people on here. Ric I quite agree, use the right tool for the job and the appropriate tool will vary with range. If you cannot kill something humanely, don't take the shot. In my own case my certificate states - Additional conditions: (.17 HMR and .22LR) "...used for shooting vermin and ground game..." "use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife." I read that as meaning ok for opportunistic fox but of course NOT deer or anything else covered by other legislation. Mine actully has the word FOX written on the cert. Only then is it fully legal with no potential problems. Cheers Quote Link to post
stubby 175 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 mine simply says I can humanely dispatch ANY ANIMAL Quote Link to post
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