staffs riffraff 1,068 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 good post bosun Quote Link to post
Phil Lloyd 10,738 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well done Bosun... That is a well considered reply, ...and worthy of consideration... All the best,.CHALKWARREN... Quote Link to post
Guest storm70 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Good reply max I thought long and hard about lining my deerhound bitch there is no point in breeding her to a Lurtcher that's why I put a hardblood whippetxgreyhound to her I find the no peds are just a bit more fire than greyhounds it's always a gamble you never no what your going to get we can only but try been a good interesting post atb lads and lassies lol Quote Link to post
stewie 3,387 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 i think it all boils down to individual experiences with different greyhounds also what everyone should remember is the amount of shit being bred. in the greyhound world there is as many messers and peddlars as there are in the lurcher world if not loads more!!! there are literally thousands of pups born every year so no one can really comment on them unless you have been around/worked one for at least a season before i got my blue dog i would never even of thought of having one but the day i walked past him in his kennel at the rescue center i noticed there was "something" about the dog so i took him a walk the next day and he impressed me for the little time i was out always looking around and constantly on his toes so to speak there were some rabbits hopping about right the other end of a huge field and he seen them well before my bull cross did!!! ill fully admit he aint the cleverest dog in the world but how clever do they have to be to run?? trust me this dog can run :laugh: its each to there own and having an open mind on dogs in general, no two dogs are the same in any breed you can say one thing about them and there will be a dog round the corner that will totally contradict everything you have just said every single fault you find in a greyhound can be found in every cross of lurchers and thats a fact :thumbs: ps @ whoever said conformation isnt important you have earned yourself a :doh: Quote Link to post
STUNTMAN 552 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Some of the stuff written on this thred makes good sense but plenty seems to be written from heresay and scaremongering. Here's my 10 penneth worth. First off, we owe the greyhound a lot, without these Formula 1 dogs just about every lurcher wouldn't be worth shit! I'd also agree with Baldock's too, in that lines of running dogs need an injection of greyhound in 'em after many generations as they will become more mongrelised. Though it'd be fair to say, match dogs apart, how many real 'lines' of lurcher are there out there? You'd only have to see a 'generations bred' lurcher run alongside a greyhound to see how slow 'some' of our lurchers have really become and before anyone says you don't need speed... Bollocks, thats why our lurchers are bred predominatley out of greyhounds anyway, you can never have enough, its harnessing it and not loosing the other desirables, thats the problem! I've never been into greyhounds, wouldn't know one line from another but I have ran a few, ex track dogs, given (borrowed) to me and mates in my youth. Yep, ran a few and killed and injured a few too. To take an ex track dog and run it as a lurcher requires a much better man than me, in my youth. I just aimed and fired back then, anything that could possibly kill quarry and even though I 'may' be a little older and wiser these days I'd never do it again, far to heartbreaking, nerves of steel or total dis-regard are required here! That said, never underestimate a decent greyhound, many will tackle anything and can get so wound up on the kill that they can have a total dis-regard to their own injurys, especially on stuff that bites back. Many will fight like b*****ds and can be a total nightmare in the back of a motor with other dogs, many times its down to their nevous and skittish nature and that nature, in some, never leaves 'em but it can be a real mess when they 'go off'. BUT, lets not forget, plenty more that ain't got it too!!! Like Stunts says, they 'can' be short winded and have dodgy feet but that should be common knowlage as they are sprint merchants and bred to run over sand tracks but their are deffinatley some that don't conform to this. I have a mate who now lives in Ireland, he has a track dog he reared as a lurcher. He's predominantly into his terriers and this of pedigree unknown track bred bitch does him fine. Enough wind for the lamp (though he's not a big lamper), sensible around his terriers and will tackle the stuff he hunts. Yer, she has a few dodgy digits but no more than many a dog thats worked just as hard. Like i said, I ain't got a clue from one greyhound pedigree to another but to me here lies the 'crux', from the little i do know, greyhound pedigree's to me, are a complete jumble, look back far enough and things will start to merge (lines etc) and to find the 'right' (or, the dog that ticks all your boxes) dog from 'any' greyhound line would be a bit of a gamble (you only have to look at good lines of terriers to see that all don't make the grade) and in breeding a litter, to big a gamble for me to take... I'll leave that for others, I ain't got neither the time, money or the nerves to wait and see how they'd turn out BUT if someone had raised one as a lurcher, then adding that, might be worth a go, line history or not. Would I bring track dog blood into my lurchers? Nope! Simply because i don't need it (right now) for either my type of dog or my style of hunting BUT for those who do, fair play to ya. Very good post Quote Link to post
toby1066 413 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 why? a dog can be the uglyest thing you ever saw but who cares if its filling the freezer or earning its keep? as long as its got 4 good strong legs that carry it to its prey quickly a good set of lungs a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart who cares if its not a show winning specimin of a dog thats the point i tryed to make. any that didnt get that are the ones who need the mate Quote Link to post
chartpolski 24,707 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is a great debate, and the sort we need more of on here ! I have two bitches at the moment; one is "Lurcher to Lurcher; Worker to Worker" bred, and is 50% Greyhound; the other is F1 deer/Grey, and her Dam never even raced, let alone worked ! She was simply a brood bitch !. So both my bitches are 50% Greyhound, albeit in a different way. Which is better ? Well they have both been bred for specific jobs, and both do their jobs well, although the Deer/Grey has just finished her first season, I can see there is plenty to work with in the future ! One is 23" the other is 29" and they do the job differently, and both can do the others job to a certain degree, but it is allways "horses for courses " ! I would certainly think of mating either one with a top class Non-Ped or a Greyhound, in future, or with a Lurcher bred dog if it suited my purpose. At the end of the day... would there be Lurchers without Greyhounds ?? Cheers. Quote Link to post
optimus 447 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have tried to ask the question to lads who have chosen track/raceing blood over tested working blood in there breeding programmes but they have not answered my question. I read an article in EDRD nov 10 by Dave Slieght regarding this subject but disagreed with a few things he said . So why do lads choose track dogs over the real deal workers as I cant see what they can offer apart from speed . IF YOU KEEP BREEDING LURCHER TO LURCHER YOU GET REGRESSION & LOSE SHARPNESS & PACE. COL TED WALSH STATED THIS YEARS AGO THAT YOU NEEDED TO BREED IN PURE SIGHTHOUND EVERY FEW GENERATIONS. YOU WILL SEE MORE OF THIS AS THE LURCHER GENE POOL DIMINISHES UNDER CURRENT LEGISLATION Quote Link to post
Leeview 791 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 why? a dog can be the uglyest thing you ever saw but who cares if its filling the freezer or earning its keep? as long as its got 4 good strong legs that carry it to its prey quickly a good set of lungs a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart who cares if its not a show winning specimin of a dog thats the point i tryed to make. any that didnt get that are the ones who need the mate A dog can be ugly BUT it must have confirmation to move effectively "4 good strong legs" dont mean a thing cows have good strong legs but they dont race them do they? " a good set of lungs,a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart" YES they all are needed but without the correct confirmation they are wasted any dog with these attributes may be fast but with correct confirmation they would be faster=more efficient Perhaps you should give your idea on what confirmation is? Y.I.S Leeview Quote Link to post
kanigra 110 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 why? a dog can be the uglyest thing you ever saw but who cares if its filling the freezer or earning its keep? as long as its got 4 good strong legs that carry it to its prey quickly a good set of lungs a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart who cares if its not a show winning specimin of a dog thats the point i tryed to make. any that didnt get that are the ones who need the mate A dog can be ugly BUT it must have confirmation to move effectively "4 good strong legs" dont mean a thing cows have good strong legs but they dont race them do they? " a good set of lungs,a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart" YES they all are needed but without the correct confirmation they are wasted any dog with these attributes may be fast but with correct confirmation they would be faster=more efficient Perhaps you should give your idea on what confirmation is? Y.I.S Leeview thank you leeview thats what i'm saying.' DO YOU GET THAT!TOBY' or do we have to get out a blackboard & a bit of chalk? Quote Link to post
border lad 1,047 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is a great debate, and the sort we need more of on here ! I have two bitches at the moment; one is "Lurcher to Lurcher; Worker to Worker" bred, and is 50% Greyhound; the other is F1 deer/Grey, and her Dam never even raced, let alone worked ! She was simply a brood bitch !. So both my bitches are 50% Greyhound, albeit in a different way. Which is better ? Well they have both been bred for specific jobs, and both do their jobs well, although the Deer/Grey has just finished her first season, I can see there is plenty to work with in the future ! One is 23" the other is 29" and they do the job differently, and both can do the others job to a certain degree, but it is allways "horses for courses " ! I would certainly think of mating either one with a top class Non-Ped or a Greyhound, in future, or with a Lurcher bred dog if it suited my purpose. At the end of the day... would there be Lurchers without Greyhounds ?? Cheers. NO,there would be no decent, lurcher without greyhound blood, ((( my opinion,only, nothing worse, breeding a litter a pups, worker to worker, and when they are working, you find they Lack a Gear,of course plenty of Stamina, but cannot get up to there quarry, and on the other Hand I have bred to much greyhound into them, speed machines, (((( its a fine balance, for me nothing wrong with good greyhound in the breeding, Quote Link to post
chartpolski 24,707 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) why dont some of you lads look into flapping track whippets ? they range in size from little whippets upto grew size and there bred and owned by enthusiasts not massive proffit run kennels . loads go on to work or are schooled by working . there fast as f**k and made up like pure sight hound long dogs just whippets and greyhound over and over , we had a small ugly bitch that had a small amount of saluki in her lol . she was flapping track bred . not a bad platform to breed lurchers from . also its been covered but conformation is realy important , the KC showing of dogs has lead us to think that conformation is only for show dogs , have we forgotten that its not how it look its how the animal is made , how it moves , your looking for faults that could lead to problems (easy one to understand is poor feet) but what about things like long or short coupled , conformation if you know how to use it is what we should use to solect the right pup from the right parents for our own aplication or tarain ! What do you mean by "flapping track whippets" ? Do you mean Non-Ped Whippets ? Flapping tracks, as I know them, are non NGRC Greyhound tracks, and very few, if any Non-Ped Whippets make the grade on them against Greyhounds. Also, by "Grew", do you mean GREyhound/Whippet, as they are known here, or do you mean Greyhound ? I go to the Non-Ped Whippet racing most weekends, and the best dogs are Whippet/Greys, (Grews), but this is straight racing,over 150 yards, not Flapping Tracks. Cheers. Edited March 21, 2011 by chartpolski Quote Link to post
midnight 657 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 dont confuse looks with conformation . two diferant things . our dogs are athelete and as such needs certain things to be that athletic !!! a dog could be ugly as shit as you say and be a world beater !! dogs that arnt put togeather right will let you down , knocked up toes from bad feet . tearing muscle or ligaments from being muscle bound . slow as shit from being to heavy built . the list goes on and on . i personaly think the diversaty of lurchers is one of the most enjoyable aspects of our sport . thank god no one idea or type will ever be right for everyone , that would be just like every other breed then and we would all want what the other man has in his kennels . the beauty is the fine tuning through breeding and the freedom we all have to do that ! at the end of the day any of us can breed our own world beater , as long as you have the stomach to cull the crap or get homes for the serplus . its that freedom that keeps us doing it long after a ban and facing a general public that think where all gypsies ha ha ...... Quote Link to post
stewie 3,387 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 why? a dog can be the uglyest thing you ever saw but who cares if its filling the freezer or earning its keep? as long as its got 4 good strong legs that carry it to its prey quickly a good set of lungs a good mouth and striking action and most importantly a big heart who cares if its not a show winning specimin of a dog thats the point i tryed to make. any that didnt get that are the ones who need the mate looks dont kill mate conformation means the basic build of the dog nothing to do with how "smart" it is when you look at a dog and think "yeah that is nice" then your looking at a dog with good conformation then after that its all about what you mentioned a dog can be as keen as mustard mate but if its body is just not able to do it then it means nothing :thumbs: Quote Link to post
STUNTMAN 552 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I have tried to ask the question to lads who have chosen track/raceing blood over tested working blood in there breeding programmes but they have not answered my question. I read an article in EDRD nov 10 by Dave Slieght regarding this subject but disagreed with a few things he said . So why do lads choose track dogs over the real deal workers as I cant see what they can offer apart from speed . IF YOU KEEP BREEDING LURCHER TO LURCHER YOU GET REGRESSION & LOSE SHARPNESS & PACE. COL TED WALSH STATED THIS YEARS AGO THAT YOU NEEDED TO BREED IN PURE SIGHTHOUND EVERY FEW GENERATIONS. YOU WILL SEE MORE OF THIS AS THE LURCHER GENE POOL DIMINISHES UNDER CURRENT LEGISLATION OPT-Dam straight as long as the breedings taking place are utilizing the right dogs, especialy the Greyhound side. Edited March 21, 2011 by STUNTMAN Quote Link to post
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