RATTING Vs DIGGING

[thurso jack 3]

The thing is most dogs of any type will take to ratting & can be alright at it...............A good digging terrier is a different animal.........Not that I'm knocking ratting as its a great craic but I have seen a fat old labrador take shit loads of rats........

 

 

i agree with you on the digging side taffy, and yes most dogs will take rats but that doesnt mean they are good ratting dogs

 

I've been thinking to myself for quite a while that a distinction of below ground working terriers and above ground working terrier sections are needed here and any other board that has just a section 'Working Terriers' . The sooner this happens on this particular forum the better I say .Then those who seem to have a weak disposition regarding the killing of cute little foxes need not look on the 'PROPER' Working terrier section .

I have no interest whatsoever in rats and they have never been part of my hunting life , the same goes for many rat / rabbit hunters regarding what I do with my terriers I'm sure . For the two / three pastimes to be classed in one section is a joke imo , because to be totally blunt the terriers who hunt rat and rabbit only should'nt be anywhere near a section of a forum board where a good honset digging dog is discussed or shown .

It is an an extrondinary dicotamy though (as has been pointed out) that people turn a blind eye to bloody pulped rats with terriers covered in blood and sometimes terriers looking not that pretty either , but when a terrier is shown having worked a fox with maybe one or two puntcure wound's that bleed a bit they are up in arms and spitting pebbles , what a fecking joke that is .

To be honest I did'nt see Poacher's thread a couple of days ago before he felt the need to pull it , this is why this thread was started . If the vermin control he posted about was done in a humane way and within the structure of the law as it stands at this time then no one had any buisness whatsoever to whinge about it .

 

 

i really cant see the need for 2 separate sections, if people cant acknowledge the fact that both are forms of legit pest control then they have no place on a hunting site, where does it all stop? its all forms of hunting or pest control i think a look at members would be more appropriate rather than the way the board is set up?

[thurso jack 3]

Surely its a sad day when all forms of terrier work cant be classed in the same section?

[Simoman 110]

I can't understand why people have a problem with killing a fox but not with a rat My main quarry are rats as that is a more common species on my permission. I think we all kill animals and to try and justify it by degrading another mans quarry is wrong. I didn't read Poachers thread but don't be put off posting because of a few idiots.

[Guest JOEB]

C.........as our mutual friend of small stature once said to me "Theres thems that know & thems that think they know".........you also know that I dont keep these grand little dogs, but I fully understand where you are coming from mate.

 

Think about it chaps..........I dont think anyone is trying to dig people out here (excuse the bad pun)

J

[thurso jack 3]

you see chief therin lies the problem on one hand you state its sad that people slate digging pics then on the other hand you quite obviously slate ratting as non terrier work, you cant understand how someone could slate your chosen quarry but you openly admit that you look down on others ie ratting, i have as much interest in both to me they both have there merits, but i wouldnt dream of condeming one or the other, if it gets people out with there dogs wheres the harm?

[thurso jack 3]

Jack I would NEVER feed a terrier that was only good for rabbiting , specialist ratters I can respect because they know the taste of blood but never would I class them on a par with a digging dog .

 

 

Nor would i chief, and you have far more experiance than i, at the end of the day a terrier has one ultimate job, but i dont think ratting deserves the knocking it gets either.

[thurso jack 3]

Look..............I respect everyones sport............A good ratter is the be all & end all to someone who enjoys ratting..............I suppose a good rabbiter the same......A good digging dog is a different ball game totally as the dog is doing what it was originally bred for.............I wouldnt class a rabbiter or even a ratter in the same group as a true digging terrier because like I have said I have watched Labs , curs & even my own lurcher take rats for fun............I know lads with collies , dobermans the list goes on....That will hunt rabbits succesfully..........I'm not for one minute DEGRADING Rabbit/ratting as a quarry for terriers but for me the words "Working Terrier" mean one thing alone...........I dont think that an ABOVE & BELOW section for working terriers would do any harm at all.............

 

point taken taffy and when you put it like that i can see its merits, i just think slateing one mans chosen quarry over an other isnt helping anyone as long as they are honest about there livestock they keep and dont try to turn it into a world beater just because its done some rats then i cant see the harm in it, as you say a good digging dog is a whole different ball game.

[Guest JOEB]

Rabbiting/Ratting terriers come & go but these days a genuine earth dog is like rocking horse shit.........Thta should tell you it all really...........

 

.......and will become rarer still if not given the correct type of work on a very regular basis so they can prove themselves, which may enable you to perpetuate the line and so keep these great little animals doing what they are bred to do............keep it real......unfortunaley, so few do nowdays.

J

 

And before anyone thinks I am being all self righteous, I will put my hands up now and say that I dont own a working terrier, I have a choccy box russel type that is good fun, but unfortunaley its too late for this type I fear.......as for the dogs Chief speakes of......with guys like him around its not to late.

I would love to own a dog such as the ones Taff & Chief speake of, but the truth is.......I could not look these guys in the face, knowing that I would be wasting all there hard work because I just could not do the animal justice as regards proper work..........I think its called being honest with yourself.

If some things are not kept real......well.......you are then on the slippery slope!

[thurso jack 3]

Thats what I mean Jack............The problem with digging terrier world is that it is full of rosette hunting berks who breed for money & people advertising thier bushing dogs as "100% working terriers"........It is just a bone of contention for alot of digging lads.............Without sounding too dramatic the true working terrier is an endangered species & alot of the problem is from lads who dont dig polluting the gene pools with thier "working terriers....."..............Again I'd like to point out that I enjoy a bit of bushing or ratting as much as anyone & as long as everyone is honest & upfront about their own dogs & quarry its not a problem..........

 

 

when are we having a show winners gallerey section? :whistle:

 

the above statement was a joke before anyone starts!!!!

[Yokel Matt 918]

I think i remember the thread and its a shame Poacher has been put off posting a much since... he had good stuff to share. The mods have to be a bit more careful with digging than ratting but thats only because of this stupid ban and their legal obligations but that that was not the problem.

 

The problem was that a newbi made an observation based on the pics (not that there was anything wrong with the pics and it wasn't inflamitory or having a pop at Poacher... something like "looks like he had more than a look") and while poacher tried to clarify the pic the thread was immediatly clogged up by people tearing the newbi a new asshole . This blew the whole thing out of proportion.

 

Come on Poacher... don't let the b*****ds bring you down.

 

By the way i've only done a bit of dog work. Fecking great fun all of it.

[marko 30]

quote.

..and will become rarer still if not given the correct type of work on a very regular basis so they can prove themselves, which may enable you to perpetuate the line and so keep these great little animals doing what they are bred to do............keep it real......unfortunaley, so few do nowdays.

J

 

And before anyone thinks I am being all self righteous, I will put my hands up now and say that I dont own a working terrier, I have a choccy box russel type that is good fun, but unfortunaley its too late for this type I fear.......as for the dogs Chief speakes of......with guys like him around its not to late.

I would love to own a dog such as the ones Taff & Chief speake of, but the truth is.......I could not look these guys in the face, knowing that I would be wasting all there hard work because I just could not do the animal justice as regards proper work..........I think its called being honest with yourself.

If some things are not kept real......well.......you are then on the slippery slope!

 

all very good posts my friend some of us dont have the luxury of loads of permission with fox i wish i had, i dont not everyone is so lucky as for me i never knock anybody working fox whether its above or below,these type of dogs are hard as nails and a joy to watch i wouldnt want to see these sort of posts pulled its not right on a hunting forum.anyway i have hunted rats for 28 yrs its what i love in my eyes you cant beat it,however each to there own others love doing earth work with their dogs all credit to them and may it carry on.

[Guest MOLLY]

There seems to be fights and arguments in every section about absolutley anything now...why does it have to be rats vrs fox....why cant we all post together in harmony

Its them and us all over again, bring back the antis at least the anger and resentment shown here was directed at the correct people

You may as well take it to its limits, as lurchers who just rabbit are not thought of as highly as those who take fox...so have a section for rabbiting dogs, and one for retrieved fox. Then there are those who think collie x's are far superior to bull x's and vice versa, Patterdales are better than Borders...lets have a seperate section for the different types.

There are those who only show their dogs...another section, what about those who actually work and show their dogs....yet another one

And this crap about what classifies work. Are springer spaniels not bred for shooting work?...so are those who work for customs etc not working?

As someone else stated in another similar dispute, if the word terrier means only earth work...then why are Kerry's, Airedales, Wheatens and all the other dogs to big to go to ground called terriers. If the dogs do an honest days work wether it be digging or ratting we should be applauding them not riduculing them because they are inferior You lot cry out for more posts, more action pictures etc, and when people do they get slated, you are just as bad as the people who slated Poachers post. ....i for one will no longer be posting on here about my ratting trips out, as my inferior muts (as i am not allowed to call them terriers) seem to offend people.

MOLL.

[skycat 6,173]

I can understand why earth dog owners get up in arms about the slating that goes on when they post a pic of a terrier a bit 'peppered' from its encounters. It IS b**dy stupid that the ratters can show the results of several hours ratting, gore and all and nobody bats an eyelid. I can only assume that this is because rats are small, live in dirty places, spread disease etc, etc. They are also very numerous, and all but the most ardent anti just doesn't want them around: so everyone applauds a night or day of carnage out ratting.

Foxes, on the other hand, are bigger, cute and cuddly looking (to joe public at any rate, or at least until one really does kill someone's baby!)

I must admit I am very wary of putting up pics of my terriers after a bit of graft: its as though other folks think we're cruel letting them go to ground: or that's what it seems like. I just wish all these slaggers could see the dogs when they have done their job well: they may be tired, a bit battered and bruised, but by God, they are happy. I've just had to clean up my nearly 10 year old Russell bitch and her daughter who dissapeared to ground during a mooch round one of our local shoots: they accounted for the fox below ground, and were very reluctant to leave their prize: tails wagging all the way home! That's no worse than a day's hard ratting, and a long ratting sesssion will see most terriers so stiff and sore they can hardly move: no one complains about that, do they??

[thurso jack 3]

There seems to be fights and arguments in every section about absolutley anything now...why does it have to be rats vrs fox....why cant we all post together in harmony

Its them and us all over again, bring back the antis at least the anger and resentment shown here was directed at the correct people

You may as well take it to its limits, as lurchers who just rabbit are not thought of as highly as those who take fox...so have a section for rabbiting dogs, and one for retrieved fox. Then there are those who think collie x's are far superior to bull x's and vice versa, Patterdales are better than Borders...lets have a seperate section for the different types.

There are those who only show their dogs...another section, what about those who actually work and show their dogs....yet another one

And this crap about what classifies work. Are springer spaniels not bred for shooting work?...so are those who work for customs etc not working?

As someone else stated in another similar dispute, if the word terrier means only earth work...then why are Kerry's, Airedales, Wheatens and all the other dogs to big to go to ground called terriers. If the dogs do an honest days work wether it be digging or ratting we should be applauding them not riduculing them because they are inferior You lot cry out for more posts, more action pictures etc, and when people do they get slated, you are just as bad as the people who slated Poachers post. ....i for one will no longer be posting on here about my ratting trips out, as my inferior muts (as i am not allowed to call them terriers) seem to offend people.

MOLL.

 

Moll i dont think that will solve anything by not psoting, i for one love seeing your trips out, as im sure lots of others did, you and millets posts helped me a lot when i first started out.

[mouse 282]

can you imagine the uproar there would be if some of the older guys could put up pics of there dogs after working the best quarry of all before it was made illegal many years ago;;;.not pics of dogs with a few pepper marks off old charlie boy.