Alli 923 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 At what age do people start to class there terriers as proven workers, for me I discount most first seasons so most of mine would be classed as proven workers at about 5 years or 3 full seasons, there are exceptions, but not many ….I know it isn’t until there career has ended hopefully at a ripe old age you know for sure…any other views? I have two terriors both under four....i would put my life on it that they are both proven dogs because i know that they would never come of and every time iv work them the next time i see them is when i brake through. It's about knowing your dog and having faith in them! Let the dogs do the talking instead of people arm-chair hunting! No offence but you can never say never,at the end of the day a terrier is only as gud as its last dig,and they can come away for several different reasons. TOTALY AGREE, IVE SEEN A COUPLE OF DOGS COME AWAY FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASONS, SO AT THE TIME I THOUGHT THAY WERE JACKERS. BUT TRIED THEM AGAIN A WEEK OR SO LATER AND DUG TO THEM IDE STILL CALL THEM WORKERS, THINK EVERY TERRIER HAS THER OF DAYS SOME TIME IN THERE LIFES. I HAD A BITCH THAT WOULDENT GO NEAR NETTLES IF I PULLED HER THROUGH THEM SHE WOULDENT EVEN LOOK AT A HOLE LET ALONE WORK MADE ME LOOK A [bANNED TEXT] C***T AT TIMES, BUT IF I CARRIED HER OVER THEM, BASICALLY TRET HER AS LAP DOG SHE WAS A LITTLE DEMON AND WOULD STAY ALL DAY LONG. SO YES SHE EDUCATED ME WELL BUT IDE CALL HER A DAMN GOOD WORKER EVEN THOUGH SHE LEFT ME RED FACED WHEN SHE WAS UNDER MY ARM, BUT THE RED FACE SOON TURNED TO A BROAD SMILE WHEN BREAKING THROUGH TO HER, SO IF WERE REALLY HONEST TO OURSELFS I THINK MOST OF US HASENT REALY UNDERSTOOD OR GIVEN THAT CERTAIN TERRIER THE TIME WE REALY SHOULD HAVE. I WONDER HOW MANY HAVE HAD THE BOOT, SO TO SPEAK, WHEN PEOPLE THINK THAY JACKED, CONFIDENCE TAKES TIME IN BOTH, BUT IN MY OPINION THE TERRIER HAS TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN ITS OWNER. Quote Link to post
sremmulp 3 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 TOTALY AGREE, IVE SEEN A COUPLE OF DOGS COME AWAY FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASONS, SO AT THE TIME I THOUGHT THAY WERE JACKERS. BUT TRIED THEM AGAIN A WEEK OR SO LATER AND DUG TO THEM IDE STILL CALL THEM WORKERS, THINK EVERY TERRIER HAS THER OF DAYS SOME TIME IN THERE LIFES. I HAD A BITCH THAT WOULDENT GO NEAR NETTLES IF I PULLED HER THROUGH THEM SHE WOULDENT EVEN LOOK AT A HOLE LET ALONE WORK MADE ME LOOK A [bANNED TEXT] C***T AT TIMES, BUT IF I CARRIED HER OVER THEM, BASICALLY TRET HER AS LAP DOG SHE WAS A LITTLE DEMON AND WOULD STAY ALL DAY LONG. SO YES SHE EDUCATED ME WELL BUT IDE CALL HER A DAMN GOOD WORKER EVEN THOUGH SHE LEFT ME RED FACED WHEN SHE WAS UNDER MY ARM, BUT THE RED FACE SOON TURNED TO A BROAD SMILE WHEN BREAKING THROUGH TO HER, SO IF WERE REALLY HONEST TO OURSELFS I THINK MOST OF US HASENT REALY UNDERSTOOD OR GIVEN THAT CERTAIN TERRIER THE TIME WE REALY SHOULD HAVE. I WONDER HOW MANY HAVE HAD THE BOOT, SO TO SPEAK, WHEN PEOPLE THINK THAY JACKED, CONFIDENCE TAKES TIME IN BOTH, BUT IN MY OPINION THE TERRIER HAS TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN ITS OWNER. WELL PUT ALI A GOOD HONEST VIEW Quote Link to post
fat man 4,741 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 My diging partner and i were diging down to a black dog this season at a dept of 7ft.It was only the dogs bout 6 or 7th dig and they were the tail end of last season so we did'nt really no the dog.Anyway we were down about 5 to 6ft when the dog came out,to say we were disapointed would be an ander statement.I then barred the hole and as it was only just over a ft i dug through and when i broke in there was the fox stone dead so the dog had done his job even though we had our doubts.So dont always knock the dog cause he comes away there could be a good reason for it. Quote Link to post
FightTheBan 1,147 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) I prefer to go digging alone. You don't have anyone to answer to, you dont have anything to prove to anyone, you can concentrate on the job at hand instead of having a social gathering, you can see your own dogs failings for what they are and you can make a more level headed judgement on your dogs performance. I bet many a good worker has lost its life because someone acted the big man infront of their digging mates. They are animals, not machines. They can, and do, fail for a variety of reasons that sometimes we will never know why. Its whether or not they pull out the stops next time as to whether they can truely be judged. Anyone who says they have had a dog go from birth till death with no failings is a liar, unless their working life was short lived. To answer your original question, I would call a dog proven when you can confidently say you can rely on that dog to succede at any given spot. This can only be achieved IMO after a good few seasons with pleanty of quarry under their belt. There is no cut off for (x number of digs) etc. Some dogs can safely be dug 50 or more times in a season, others can only de dug 1/4 of that. Which dog is proven first? That is my opinion anyway,and each to their own. FTB Edited February 26, 2011 by FightTheBan 3 Quote Link to post
Daniele Santoni 6 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless Quote Link to post
moddey-dhoo 39 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless very good post hope your friend no longer breeds from young terriers Quote Link to post
FightTheBan 1,147 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless Sounds good on paper. FTB Quote Link to post
Alli 923 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. 1 Quote Link to post
Nick 14 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. Quote Link to post
moddey-dhoo 39 Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 how fashions change once a dog had to stay what ever or however it worked, now every one is give the dog a chance they all have a off day, if a dog keeps coming off the dog is crap end off..sure as hell don't want to be out with a terrier that might stay might not when your starting a 6 foot dig in hard ground..i do vermin control for farmers and keepers,if the dogs a yo-yo there not going to be happy, seen some these dogs that have a off day,the dog has killed it in days gone by then it was get the tin terrier, these days its out with the drain rods lol once a terrier is past its first season 3 strikes and out Quote Link to post
Alli 923 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. I WOULDENT BREED FROM ANYTHING THAT FLYS AWAY AWAY FROM ITS QUARRY, BUT I WOULD FROM A THINKING WORKER THATS NOT STUPID Quote Link to post
Nick 14 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. I WOULDENT BREED FROM ANYTHING THAT FLYS AWAY AWAY FROM ITS QUARRY, BUT I WOULD FROM A THINKING WORKER THATS NOT STUPID But a dog that abborts his mission is not the way to go in my opinion, thinking or not. But maybe because I am a novice at this I just don't understand you. But as I understand you are saying that it is ok for a dog to abbort his mission now and then to safe himself? Quote Link to post
Alli 923 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. I WOULDENT BREED FROM ANYTHING THAT FLYS AWAY AWAY FROM ITS QUARRY, BUT I WOULD FROM A THINKING WORKER THATS NOT STUPID But a dog that abborts his mission is not the way to go in my opinion, thinking or not. But maybe because I am a novice at this I just don't understand you. But as I understand you are saying that it is ok for a dog to abbort his mission now and then to safe himself? NO NOT ABBORT ITS MISSION, BUT I HAVE AT TIMES SEEN A DOG CHARGED OVER AND PULLED THE DOG AWAY BECOUSE IN MY MIND ITS STALE MATE, I THINK YOU GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK, IME SAYING THERS JACKERS AND THEN THERES DOGS THATS HAD ENOUGH, IN MY EYES ILE PULL THEM OUT RESULT OR NOT. Quote Link to post
Nick 14 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. I WOULDENT BREED FROM ANYTHING THAT FLYS AWAY AWAY FROM ITS QUARRY, BUT I WOULD FROM A THINKING WORKER THATS NOT STUPID But a dog that abborts his mission is not the way to go in my opinion, thinking or not. But maybe because I am a novice at this I just don't understand you. But as I understand you are saying that it is ok for a dog to abbort his mission now and then to safe himself? NO NOT ABBORT ITS MISSION, BUT I HAVE AT TIMES SEEN A DOG CHARGED OVER AND PULLED THE DOG AWAY BECOUSE IN MY MIND ITS STALE MATE, I THINK YOU GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK, IME SAYING THERS JACKERS AND THEN THERES DOGS THATS HAD ENOUGH, IN MY EYES ILE PULL THEM OUT RESULT OR NOT. YOU pull them out? But dogs YOU pull ohut didn't quit. So if this is the only excuse a dog gets from you then you are saying the same as Daniele Santoni. But in your earlier posts it sounded different in my ears. Quote Link to post
Alli 923 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Excellent discussion. I think it should be a distinction between a poor day performance (always possible in the career of a dog) from stop the action while the dog work. Many Terriers stop hunting if find a competitor that severely punishes them or that they can not "dominate" psychologically. Then resume their work next time if encounter an animal that can work more easily... For me, these dogs are second-rate workers and not suitable for breeding. A game worker can, for a thousand reasons, have a bad day but NEVER go away from his enemy. Bless ABSOLUTE BULL S**T. FROM THE BREEDING SIDE OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. IVE SEEN THE BEST OF TERRIERS GET SICKENED BY ITS QUARRY AND COME AWAY AFTER A FEW HOURS OF DIGGING, THERES LIMITS, WHEN THE QUARRY CHARGES AND CHARGES NON STOP, AND IT NOWS IT CAN BEAT A TERRIER, WHICH HAPPENS WHEN THERES BIN A FEW FAILED DIGS ON IT. I WOULDENT CALL THEM SECOND RATE WORKERS IDE CALL THEM A GOOD WORKER THATS ACCOUNTED FOR ITS SELF. YOU CANT BREED FROM A OVER HARD DEAD DOG. JUST MY OPINION. Looking with a Gamedog mind at it, I have to agree with that last centence from Daniele Santoni. But saying this, I am learning at the moment that with Terriers not everything is that simple, and added to that that also everybody has a different opinion on these matters. This doesn't make it simpleat all. But if you look me in my heart, I would only breed from dogs that don't fly away from their prey like the roles are reversed. I WOULDENT BREED FROM ANYTHING THAT FLYS AWAY AWAY FROM ITS QUARRY, BUT I WOULD FROM A THINKING WORKER THATS NOT STUPID But a dog that abborts his mission is not the way to go in my opinion, thinking or not. But maybe because I am a novice at this I just don't understand you. But as I understand you are saying that it is ok for a dog to abbort his mission now and then to safe himself? NO NOT ABBORT ITS MISSION, BUT I HAVE AT TIMES SEEN A DOG CHARGED OVER AND PULLED THE DOG AWAY BECOUSE IN MY MIND ITS STALE MATE, I THINK YOU GETTING THE WRONG END OF THE STICK, IME SAYING THERS JACKERS AND THEN THERES DOGS THATS HAD ENOUGH, IN MY EYES ILE PULL THEM OUT RESULT OR NOT. YOU pull them out? But dogs YOU pull ohut didn't quit. So if this is the only excuse a dog gets from you then you are saying the same as Daniele Santoni. But in your earlier posts it sounded different in my ears. IVE PULLED DOGS OUT, AND IVE HAD A COUPLE A DOGS CHARGED OUT OVER THE YEARS. THE DOGS CHARGED OUT HAVENT BIN JACKERS. AND WANTED BACK IN. BUT I CANT SEE THE PIONT WHEN THE DOGS HEAD IS MASHED AND IME NOT GOING TO GET A RESULT Quote Link to post
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