A little help for a firearm newbi

[sako 23]

After reading your initial post the first thing you need to do is forget all the crap about a .223 or.243 if you are targeting rabbits and the ODD fox then their is simply no need it is a straight up choice between .22lr,.17hmr and the .22mag If noise is an issue then .22lr if not then .17hmr I wouldn't even bother with the .22mag as the .17hmr has the edge it most police forces are happy to grant any of them for vermin and occasional fox

 

 

Well said that man danw!

 

Rossy looking at the pic there's gonna be a lot of longer shots, mmmm which would I choose?????? I wonder

 

Ask yourself this. How many people have had a .22 and then varied the fac for a .17? Answer absolutely loads

Now how many have gone and varied the .17 for a .22? No where near the same number Im afraid. A .17 does have a crack when you fire but a good mod does do a lot to reduce this and if those lamp shy rabbits are a problem the .17 is ready for a nv add on. I missed a fox with my .22 last night with the nv at just about 100yrds it looked like an elephant through the scopes and impossible to miss. My .22 is zeroed at 50yrds as I did have it zeroed at 70 but was missing to many 25yrd shots.I only use a 22-250 for fox but my nv wont go on the scope hence testing the .22

You need to go try both then decide for yourself and see what suits YOU!

[rossy08 33]

After reading your initial post the first thing you need to do is forget all the crap about a .223 or.243 if you are targeting rabbits and the ODD fox then their is simply no need it is a straight up choice between .22lr,.17hmr and the .22mag If noise is an issue then .22lr if not then .17hmr I wouldn't even bother with the .22mag as the .17hmr has the edge it most police forces are happy to grant any of them for vermin and occasional fox

 

 

Well said that man danw!

 

Rossy looking at the pic there's gonna be a lot of longer shots, mmmm which would I choose?????? I wonder

 

Ask yourself this. How many people have had a .22 and then varied the fac for a .17? Answer absolutely loads

Now how many have gone and varied the .17 for a .22? No where near the same number Im afraid. A .17 does have a crack when you fire but a good mod does do a lot to reduce this and if those lamp shy rabbits are a problem the .17 is ready for a nv add on. I missed a fox with my .22 last night with the nv at just about 100yrds it looked like an elephant through the scopes and impossible to miss. My .22 is zeroed at 50yrds as I did have it zeroed at 70 but was missing to many 25yrd shots.I only use a 22-250 for fox but my nv wont go on the scope hence testing the .22

You need to go try both then decide for yourself and see what suits YOU!

fully agree with the what suits point, i,m off to the newark shooting show next week to have a look about and a try of a few. see if will help with the desision a little.

 

again thank you for your advice and help on this matter.

atb

Andy

[dadioles 68]

I use both .22LR and .17HMR for rabbits during the day and have another .22LR with dedicated night vision.

At night I would never use the HMR as I want to be as quiet as possible, often shooting in the early hours. My Gen2+ night vision only has a magnification of x5 and a rabbits head makes a pretty small target at night even at 50 yards so the .22LR zeroed at 50 yards with an effectively flat trajectory +- 0.4 inch is good from 15 to 55 yards without any holdover and shoots about an inch low at 65 yards, beyond that head shots are getting too difficult at night.

 

During the day the .22LR is great fun, very quiet, cheap to feed and disturbs no-one, accurate and deadly for headshots on rabbits out to a sensible maximum of about 100 yards. At that point the bullet has dropped nearly 8 inches, again with a 50 yard zero. The steep trajectory means you need to be accurate in your estimate of distance, 10 yards here or there and you will be out by as much as a couple of inches vertically, wounding or missing rather than killing cleanly.

 

From about yards to a sensible maximum of a little under 200 yards the HMR comes into its own and shoots pretty flat (+- 0.4 inch with a 100 yard zero) from 30 yards out to a little over 110 yards after which you have to start compensating for increasingly rapid bullet drop (again, need to judge distance accurately) at 200 yards you need about 9 inches of holdover.

The HMR is about 3 times as expensive to feed as the .22 and even with a good moderator the sound really carries. The high velocity will disembowel a rabbit so head shots are essential (and easy) if you want to eat the meat. I tend not to bother with the front legs anyway, just keep the saddle and rear quarters.

 

A beginner or someone who is moving into firearms after shooting a sub 12lb air rifle will absolutely love the .22LR but on the firearms application include the HMR as well. The justification (reason) for both is that one is for quiet short range shooting and night shooting and the other for longer range shots. It does not cost anything to add it and saves a variation later.

 

Anything much bigger than these two calibres seems expensive overkill when rabbits are the main quarry and they are both legal and adequate for short range fox (I am told - I have never shot a fox).

 

Deer are a whole different kettle of fish.

[sako 23]

Dadioles, excellent reply a lot of good information there!

No wonder I missed that fox last night my zero was at 50 and I only took aim just above him, eight inch drop im definately gonna miss. I just haven't spent time shooting targets with the .22 as I never use it for shooting further than I can hit something with the butt of it, hense my poor target aquisition with it.

Will it drop a fox at 100yrds or has it got to be a head shot?

[HUnter_zero 58]

If it's zeroed for 50yrds how much for hold over for 100yrds?

 

7.5"

 

John

[sako 23]

Cheers John, I think Im going to leave the .22 in the cabinet and stick to lamping with the 22-250 until my 204 arrives. Then I'll get back out with the add on. At least I know how to shoot the 22-250 and the best thing is I haven't got to think about large hold overs until Im past 300 so I don't look like this as often when I miss.

[stillair1 16]

I would put in for all three, remember you don't have to buy the hmr or .223 straight away. A servicable .22lr can be had for around £100. Some forces will not grant .22lr or hmr for fox btw.

And don't forget mods for all of the rifles you put down.

neil

[dadioles 68]

If it's zeroed for 50yrds how much for hold over for 100yrds?

 

7.5"

 

John

 

The drop is going to vary from gun to gun and make of bullet. You can only use published trajectory figures as a rough guide and MUST work out your own.

 

Every rifle owner really should know how their gun behaves at the distances they intend to shoot, certainly in the case of smaller calibres where you can conveniently and cheaply put a few dozen rounds through I would say it is irresponsible not to and an excuse for a bit of plinking at targets. Just as important but not so easy to do with larger calibres (I do not have experience of these).

 

For the .22 as an example, buy a box each (or "aquire" a few samples from your mates) of whatever ammo you can easily get and see which groups best for your gun. Its fun for goodness sake!

Some makes of bullet will shoot higher by a couple of inches and some lower. Some will scatter all over the place, maybe a 3 inch group or worse at 50 yards. Stick to the one that gives the tightest group and only buy that, you are wasting your time with the others, nothing wrong with them (maybe) they just don't suit your gun. I cannot properly chamber Ely Subs for example but others think they are fantastic. I use SK Subs (Lapua) not cheap but best groups (for me).

 

Having chosen one type / make of bullet, settle down on a nice wind free day and accurately zero the gun at whatever distance you feel is appropriate, again, for my .22 it is 50 yards but everyone will have their own ideas on that. Look at published trajectory charts or download "Chairgun" software for your PC and play around with it - but don't expect your trajectory curve to match the theoretical one, this is real world.

 

Now you have a "standard" stable setup to work from.

 

Set up some targets - nothing fancy, just an X on a bit of paper will do, at different distances, 60 - 70 - yards maybe, and fire 4 or 5 shots at each aiming exactly at the X, hopefully you will get good groups but you must always aim exactly at the X. Now you know the bullet drop at each distance and can compensate.

 

I used to use that information to give me a holdover and simply guess, for example, "aim two inches above the rabbits head at 75 yards". That technique worked well and is quick but I am not that young and sharp any more and tend to play the role of a slow sniper (smile). The dots or other markings in the scope may be useful.

 

These days I work out how many clicks are needed to adjust my scope so that it is bang on at the different distances. For example one HMR shoots 2.7 inches low at 150 yards with a 100 yard zero and to correct this takes 14 clicks, nice and easy and really quite quick to do. Oh and the manufacturers idea of how much adjustment one click makes is not too accurate, even on an expensive scope.

 

Best wishes....

[sako 23]

Excellent reply again. You are totally right about the practice but when a live fox affects my lively hood and it looks like an elephant through my scope......Im having a go. 20 years ago I used to shoot a lot of rabbits and crows with the.22 and from that I remember aiming way high hence my comment earlier in the thread of shooting a foot high. As I said my .22 shall now remain redundant from the fox or distance shots as it doen't suit MY style. I've shot a 22-250 for the last 18 years and I wouldn't even have thought about using the .22 if my nv fitted the 22-250. Each to their own I suppose, Im a shotgun man for rabbits.