working terriers in usa

[STUNTMAN 552]

BOB-How many are these barn/building coons are dispatched by the terrier one on one? I see alot of human intervention in most of these post and there was when I barn hunted 20,10,2 years ago.

Kye or somebody put a post up recently on here with 79 coons in two days 1 hour. I'm sure he has very good terriers, but I know what happens to a dog with one hard coon in a 4ft hole.When you break through with the shovel, pry the floor boards or move the hay Terrier's job over imo.

 

 

 

 

 

i agree 100%. i cant speak for others but i really don't want a straight bayer, then you have to get a 60lb lurch to do the business...

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

I have two terriers ...but if they decide to go to ground you won't need a spade; you'll need a miner's helmet and a canary .

But then I didn't get mine for ground work,either.

[ivebeen 176]

What kind of work did you get them for Aaron?

 

Does anyone know of terriers running with hounds?

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

What kind of work did you get them for Aaron?

 

Does anyone know of terriers running with hounds?

 

 

LOL...Mine are Airedales. Bought 'em for above ground work. For obvious reasons. Also to run with bird dogs on occassion to keep the coyotes off of 'em while they work.

[ivebeen 176]

Ahh i see.

I belive ive seen a few pictures on this site of your dogs before.

How do they handle the yotes, how much do your dales weigh?

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

Right now mine are about 55 lbs. and won't get much bigger at just now a year old.We're still in training ...but they seem to have the knack for it both in tolling and bolting them from cover,tracking and the occassional fight. Most importantly , they've integrated well into the family as regular members with-in their place ,naturally.

[ivebeen 176]

Tolling dogs are such a kick to me, definetly interesting work!!

Its always important there part of the family

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

Make no mistake ,though, I don't consider myself a terrierman in the traditional sort of way. I don't consider a spade a normal part of my hunting tackle, and don't expect anykind of ground game. But I intend to incorporate that someday.

[BAD BOB 27]

stunt, i would say 20% of the time he finishes before i get there... 75% of the time with another. i still don't think i need a 60lb lurch doin the terriers job.i would rather 3 20lb terriers or 4 15lb terriers... thats still the same right?

you are correct that was kye who made the post, wanna bet, you think his terriers bay?i highly doubt it. 79coons in 2 days... a hard coon in a 4ft hole... are you comparing the two? how many diggers have taken 79 coons out of the ground in 2 days? prob none unless there barn huntin. afew posts back you called yourself a "traditionalist" where are going to hunt your 30 lb terrier? train tunnels? bear dens?

[Coyotehunter 689]

I am in the north east US and it does get pretty cold around here. Our ground freezes up but if its covered with a nice blanket of snow and it stays like that for a while, then the ground tends to be frozen for only a couple inches. I dig most of the winter and find it is usually easy going unless we get exposed surface and frigid temperatures for several days.

As for quarry, I have found that most of the time the quarry reacts to what the dog does. Fox will bolt or fight back if a terrier pushes it. If the dog holds its position and bays, then you dig. Coons in the ground act the same way. If a dog bays it will turn its back sometimes and just tolerate it. If a dog engages then you can imagine its the same as a fox but a coon uses its paws/claws like hands. They grab and hold. Woodchucks are plentiful where I am. You primarily dig them from spring to early fall. They have tight earth. The fox, coon and opossum don't dig their own hole but use the chuck's hole. Chucks will dig fast and collapse tunnels. They are a challenge in the ground for any terrier that fits well enough to get up to them quickly on their own, that is, the adult chucks. Opossum are pretty much a lightweight compared to the rest. He does play dead and gives a scent off while doing so. Some dogs will walk off. I had my bitch in a couple weekends back, who is a bayer. There was fox sign all around the field nearby. The hole smelled foxy and in she went. First baying, then tugging sounds. More baying. So we dug. It took us 30 min to get 8 inches of hard frozen ground up before we reached digging dirt. She was located 7 feet down on a hillside earth. Half way down we hear tugging. She will mix but mostly bays. We got about 6 feet down and she comes out. I'm sure it was a possum playing dead. She never rags dead game and has walked off several possum that played dead, though she has never walked off quarry in the 3 years she's been dug to. Barn hunting seem very appealing at those time. No one want to spend 1/2 hour or hour digging a couple inches of completely frozen ground while your hands and shoulders are stinging from the solid ground and its 12*F outside and the wind pierces thru you.

The dog that are under 12" and between 10-15 lbs seem to get the majority of the quarry. The digs are typically 2-6 feet but can be a bit deeper, especially on hillside, ridges and berms. We do not have badger, nutria or armadillos anywhere within a 10 hour drive of me so I can't speak on that. Any dog that is up over 14" and 20lbs is only getting into coyote and bear dens around here for proper earth work and good luck to them.

I have to repectfully disagree with you on a couple of points , goundhogs , woodchucks call them what you want are not any kind of a challenge for a terrier , you'd be better off with a ferret !!!! pissing around with an animal thats running away and trying to suffacate your terrier in the bargain, been there done that, got the Tshirt , i'd rather not go out than piss around on groundhogs

"Any dog that is up over 14" and 20lbs is only getting into coyote and bear dens around here for proper earth work and good luck to them."

Maybe where you are , but there's plenty of places around here that a 14' 20lbs + will get into and there certainly not coyote or bear holes, People who piss around with groundhogs have this thing about terriers being 5" tall and 3lb, and a 11" chest span, it drives me crazy, go buy a chihuahua if thats the case , if your dog is that small and it comes across a 30lb coon its gonna get its arse kicked !!! end of story , within reason it doesn't matter how tall the dog is, legs fold up if it has a tight chest and the heart it will get anywhere your 10" terrier will get .

JMHO CH

 

 

 

 

It seems you do not like to work groundhogs. I can appreciate the fact that it's frustrating. That is understandable if the dog is too large to get (Fit) up close without having to dig a few hole to let the dog turn. If the earth near you are easily accessed by a large (20lbs Dog) that is great. Here, it is not going to happen unless it is a breeding earth with kits that are grown. I've been to the U.K. and seen the settes and can understand what may fit. I did see some small earths as well. The dog that fits in these big earths is not going to fit in the dens were I am from. I wish it was different. It would be a lot easier to get the right dog for the job. Woodchucks digging probably make up the majority of quarry that is being taken below ground in the US. You can dig them March thru November if you want and you don't have to worry about frozen ground or access issues due to snow. Most people want them gone; farmers, orchards, gardeners, homeowners, golf courses, etc. Some fields are full of individual earths that can have 1-10 openings. They are kind of like some of the badger settes I've seen but on a smaller scale. Then multiply that by 15 or 30 for one good field, and there is usually only one animal per earth. The dog must fine quick, get in close and keep the thing from digging. End of story. If the dog can't get there quickly, well then it's going to be walled off. I will say that some places I hunt have clay soil and in the summer the chucks have a hard time digging on so if the dog has drive he will get there eventually. The places I work the most have very easy digging soil and the chucks can move earth very fast. I find that coon usually just sit there and fox will bolt as soon as they can. They don't run and hide or wall off anything. There isn't the hunts here. We have a few guys that run hounds around but they aren't digging or even working with terriermen. This means the foxes rarely ever encounter terriers because people are not digging that much especially in December, January or Feruary when they are to ground and the weather is a bitch.

I agree that leg size is negotiable and that a hard tiny dog will get their attitude handed to them by any big coon or mean old fox. As I said, the quarry react to how the dog works. I also think that barn hunting has a sense of tunnel work in it but it is not digging. I have to say that there is probably very few chihuahuas that have worked to ground but I know of plenty of farm dogs that have worked coon in the hey barns.

I believe Fionn asked about EARTHWORK. This is the work that I do in the earth. If you are a digger then you know it isn't easy especially in the winter or the summer when its very hot. Most people are not going to go for a walk with the dogs and decide to dig a 6ft hole when they just paid $1000 for Fido. People are lazy, plain and simple.

There is not a lot of terriermen or women around. It is not something that most people even realize people do. I worked a fox den on a horse farm this weekend and the owner asked how we did. He knew I hunted with terriers (Most people hunt fox with calls) and asked if we got any. I told him we had one in the net but it got away because I didn't set it right. It snagged on a couple sticks I should of moved. He asked what made the fox come out of the hole. I told him the terrier. He couldn't wrap his head around it. I had to explain that the dog goes in the hole and moves the fox or keeps it in it's place. People just don't know about terrier work around here. There is not that many of us doing it. It doesn't help that many of these US terrier guys are constantly talking shit about each other and calling each other names. We are not representing ourselves too well with all that crap.

Fair play to you, a good reply we will agree to disagree on the Groundhog thing (maybe it is cos my dogs are too big for digging them) but i did live in Pittsburgh before coming here and saw small terriers working them as well , its just not for me, i'd rather walk a few miles more in woods and check out some places where i might find coons or fox

I do however take acception to being called lazy if you're including me in your "people are lazy plain and simple " comment

please don't insult my intelligence and take me for an idiot that doesn't know what digging is, as i said before i'm from the UK and have dug with respected terrier men and have dug as much as the next man,

Because i pick where and when i dig my terriers in winter doesn't mean i'm lazy, in the summer and autumn i'll dig wherever and whenever i can, i have lads that can help if a terrier is in trouble for whatever reason, in the winter its me and thats it, do i want to be digging 15ft through frozen ground without some help ? no i don't, if that makes me lazy then i hold my hands up, i'll take the barn work this time of year, till the conditions change

[steadymob 4]

Bob o bob... Come on man. You rival main attraction with all your bs.

[BAD BOB 27]

thats it? tell me cole...be the terrier whisperer.

[McKay69 6]

I am in the north east US and it does get pretty cold around here. Our ground freezes up but if its covered with a nice blanket of snow and it stays like that for a while, then the ground tends to be frozen for only a couple inches. I dig most of the winter and find it is usually easy going unless we get exposed surface and frigid temperatures for several days.

As for quarry, I have found that most of the time the quarry reacts to what the dog does. Fox will bolt or fight back if a terrier pushes it. If the dog holds its position and bays, then you dig. Coons in the ground act the same way. If a dog bays it will turn its back sometimes and just tolerate it. If a dog engages then you can imagine its the same as a fox but a coon uses its paws/claws like hands. They grab and hold. Woodchucks are plentiful where I am. You primarily dig them from spring to early fall. They have tight earth. The fox, coon and opossum don't dig their own hole but use the chuck's hole. Chucks will dig fast and collapse tunnels. They are a challenge in the ground for any terrier that fits well enough to get up to them quickly on their own, that is, the adult chucks. Opossum are pretty much a lightweight compared to the rest. He does play dead and gives a scent off while doing so. Some dogs will walk off. I had my bitch in a couple weekends back, who is a bayer. There was fox sign all around the field nearby. The hole smelled foxy and in she went. First baying, then tugging sounds. More baying. So we dug. It took us 30 min to get 8 inches of hard frozen ground up before we reached digging dirt. She was located 7 feet down on a hillside earth. Half way down we hear tugging. She will mix but mostly bays. We got about 6 feet down and she comes out. I'm sure it was a possum playing dead. She never rags dead game and has walked off several possum that played dead, though she has never walked off quarry in the 3 years she's been dug to. Barn hunting seem very appealing at those time. No one want to spend 1/2 hour or hour digging a couple inches of completely frozen ground while your hands and shoulders are stinging from the solid ground and its 12*F outside and the wind pierces thru you.

The dog that are under 12" and between 10-15 lbs seem to get the majority of the quarry. The digs are typically 2-6 feet but can be a bit deeper, especially on hillside, ridges and berms. We do not have badger, nutria or armadillos anywhere within a 10 hour drive of me so I can't speak on that. Any dog that is up over 14" and 20lbs is only getting into coyote and bear dens around here for proper earth work and good luck to them.

I have to repectfully disagree with you on a couple of points , goundhogs , woodchucks call them what you want are not any kind of a challenge for a terrier , you'd be better off with a ferret !!!! pissing around with an animal thats running away and trying to suffacate your terrier in the bargain, been there done that, got the Tshirt , i'd rather not go out than piss around on groundhogs

"Any dog that is up over 14" and 20lbs is only getting into coyote and bear dens around here for proper earth work and good luck to them."

Maybe where you are , but there's plenty of places around here that a 14' 20lbs + will get into and there certainly not coyote or bear holes, People who piss around with groundhogs have this thing about terriers being 5" tall and 3lb, and a 11" chest span, it drives me crazy, go buy a chihuahua if thats the case , if your dog is that small and it comes across a 30lb coon its gonna get its arse kicked !!! end of story , within reason it doesn't matter how tall the dog is, legs fold up if it has a tight chest and the heart it will get anywhere your 10" terrier will get .

JMHO CH

 

 

 

 

It seems you do not like to work groundhogs. I can appreciate the fact that it's frustrating. That is understandable if the dog is too large to get (Fit) up close without having to dig a few hole to let the dog turn. If the earth near you are easily accessed by a large (20lbs Dog) that is great. Here, it is not going to happen unless it is a breeding earth with kits that are grown. I've been to the U.K. and seen the settes and can understand what may fit. I did see some small earths as well. The dog that fits in these big earths is not going to fit in the dens were I am from. I wish it was different. It would be a lot easier to get the right dog for the job. Woodchucks digging probably make up the majority of quarry that is being taken below ground in the US. You can dig them March thru November if you want and you don't have to worry about frozen ground or access issues due to snow. Most people want them gone; farmers, orchards, gardeners, homeowners, golf courses, etc. Some fields are full of individual earths that can have 1-10 openings. They are kind of like some of the badger settes I've seen but on a smaller scale. Then multiply that by 15 or 30 for one good field, and there is usually only one animal per earth. The dog must fine quick, get in close and keep the thing from digging. End of story. If the dog can't get there quickly, well then it's going to be walled off. I will say that some places I hunt have clay soil and in the summer the chucks have a hard time digging on so if the dog has drive he will get there eventually. The places I work the most have very easy digging soil and the chucks can move earth very fast. I find that coon usually just sit there and fox will bolt as soon as they can. They don't run and hide or wall off anything. There isn't the hunts here. We have a few guys that run hounds around but they aren't digging or even working with terriermen. This means the foxes rarely ever encounter terriers because people are not digging that much especially in December, January or Feruary when they are to ground and the weather is a bitch.

I agree that leg size is negotiable and that a hard tiny dog will get their attitude handed to them by any big coon or mean old fox. As I said, the quarry react to how the dog works. I also think that barn hunting has a sense of tunnel work in it but it is not digging. I have to say that there is probably very few chihuahuas that have worked to ground but I know of plenty of farm dogs that have worked coon in the hey barns.

I believe Fionn asked about EARTHWORK. This is the work that I do in the earth. If you are a digger then you know it isn't easy especially in the winter or the summer when its very hot. Most people are not going to go for a walk with the dogs and decide to dig a 6ft hole when they just paid $1000 for Fido. People are lazy, plain and simple.

There is not a lot of terriermen or women around. It is not something that most people even realize people do. I worked a fox den on a horse farm this weekend and the owner asked how we did. He knew I hunted with terriers (Most people hunt fox with calls) and asked if we got any. I told him we had one in the net but it got away because I didn't set it right. It snagged on a couple sticks I should of moved. He asked what made the fox come out of the hole. I told him the terrier. He couldn't wrap his head around it. I had to explain that the dog goes in the hole and moves the fox or keeps it in it's place. People just don't know about terrier work around here. There is not that many of us doing it. It doesn't help that many of these US terrier guys are constantly talking shit about each other and calling each other names. We are not representing ourselves too well with all that crap.

Fair play to you, a good reply we will agree to disagree on the Groundhog thing (maybe it is cos my dogs are too big for digging them) but i did live in Pittsburgh before coming here and saw small terriers working them as well , its just not for me, i'd rather walk a few miles more in woods and check out some places where i might find coons or fox

I do however take acception to being called lazy if you're including me in your "people are lazy plain and simple " comment

please don't insult my intelligence and take me for an idiot that doesn't know what digging is, as i said before i'm from the UK and have dug with respected terrier men and have dug as much as the next man,

Because i pick where and when i dig my terriers in winter doesn't mean i'm lazy, in the summer and autumn i'll dig wherever and whenever i can, i have lads that can help if a terrier is in trouble for whatever reason, in the winter its me and thats it, do i want to be digging 15ft through frozen ground without some help ? no i don't, if that makes me lazy then i hold my hands up, i'll take the barn work this time of year, till the conditions change

No, I am not calling you or any other terrierman lazy. I meant that most people wouldn't even bother to pick up a shovel or move some hay bales to have a bit of fun and watch the dogs work. We do things a bit different then the posers and getting out with the dogs is the main thing. I have to agree with you that if the ground is frozen hard, the snow deep and I'm on my own, I'm not going out digging either. I had a house dog(Russell) out with me bushing rabbits. This was years ago and it belong to someone else. It went off tracking deer and ended up out all night. It was -18*C that night. Luckily the dog found a farm the next morning. He had frostbite on 3 of his paws. Anyways, I'd like to hear how people work nutria and the American badger in the ground. Has anyone had any good digs to bobcat?

[STUNTMAN 552]

stunt, i would say 20% of the time he finishes before i get there... 75% of the time with another. i still don't think i need a 60lb lurch doin the terriers job.i would rather 3 20lb terriers or 4 15lb terriers... thats still the same right?[

 

Wrong Bob,How does a 60lb lurcher do a terriers job lol. How does he fit? I need 1 terrier to find , fit and stay till I get there, when I get there its job is over. The lurchers always there for bolters or drawing if I need him. According to your numbers you put up above the terrier or terriers dont dispatched everyone and you dont need a lurcher your there for the rest. 22/bat is alot cheaper than a 60lb dog for what your doing.

 

you are correct that was kye who made the post, wanna bet, you think his terriers bay?i highly doubt it. 79coons in 2 days... a hard coon in a 4ft hole... are you comparing the two? how many diggers have taken 79 coons out of the ground in 2 days? prob none unless there barn huntin. afew posts back you called yourself a "traditionalist" where are going to hunt your 30 lb terrier? train tunnels? bear dens?

 

Bob mabey you should read my post a few times and let it sink in. Not comparing the two at all, not saying his dogs are bayers. I've been doing this alot longer than you that includes barn hunting. When I say a hard one @ 4ft with a hard dog I KNOW what the dog is going to look like and what he's going to beable to after that. So when I see 79 coons laid out in 13 hrs worth of work over two days with 3-4 terriers {coon every 10 minutes per hr} I KNOW AGAIN thats there is human intervention. My best year ever was plus in the ground[over a winter] and my terriers didnt look like yours even the following summer. As far as a "traditionalist" goes well all I can tell ya I've been here around 90days put 5 coyotes in dirt holes or tubes/culverts so thats were my 30lbs are going. Put one of your dogs in on one shell drives to ground see what happens. Ask Varg if you dont believe me and if you got a better idea im all ears.

Edited February 9, 2011 by STUNTMAN

[BAD BOB 27]

fair enough, maybe one of my "extra terriers" will have ahold of the bolt before he gets away.

how is a 4 ft hole any different than being 4 ft deep in the floor? call varg your pups dad just pulled 4 coons by himself, no help,no breakin in,maybe he ain't hard enough but he sounds hard enough to me.his dogs look good don't they? or are you gonna use he hasn't hunted long enough, give me a break.you state your best yr was + mine was 186 damn i tried to f**k them up as good as i could... guess i didn't get it done.lol

no my dogs ain't going with shell, if 3,4,5 big dogs can't get it done why would i expect a my terrier to? if you send him in a tube /culvert how do you plan on getting him out? a dirt hole i see, i don't have a cutting torch in my pickup for the other.

it takes all kinds to make the world spin, i want 17 to 20lber's that give me everything they got,you want 7 to 14 lber's to fit ,find ,stay.... as long as your pushin and i'm pullin everything will be o.k