22LR .17HMR Fox?

[dadioles 68]

I know this has come up before, but here is a different flavour...

 

Having just been pursuaded that shooting foxes on a golf course is a good idea I am just wondering what I should do if I come across one while out shooting rabbits, not equipped for foxes. What about small deer such as muntjak?

 

I will either have a 22LR or .17HMR with me and would not, under any circumstances, consider anything further than about 50 yards. I am certainly not desperate to shoot one.

 

First question - Is it legal?

 

My certificate (exact wording) says: ".... used for shooting vermin and ground game .." "... use only in connection with the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife."

 

Second question - Is it humane?

Where should the shot be placed?

 

The other night I was at the golf club laying down on top of a bunker and there was a shadow filled dead space a couple of yards (maybe 5 yards) in front of me in the dip. I waited 10 minutes for the rabbits to appear from a hedge 35 yards in front and shot one with the very quiet 22LR and night vision. To my huge surprise (and his) a badger popped up right in front of me and trotted slowly off while looking back at me. He had been there all the time, nice to see. Now supposing that had been a fox? (Frankly I would probably have just watched it go).

 

Les

[kingnewport 19]

I've dropped foxes with both, up to 50 yards is fine. Not much further fir the .22 tho.

I'd go for either a head shot or the chest .

And yes it is leagal.

But I will say , alot of people will question are either cal suitable, this question comes up on every forum

[chimp 299]

my mate just phoned the feo regarding his hmr and fox as he did state it at the application , they said it is fine

[kingnewport 19]

There u go then

[RicW 67]

HANG ON GUYS! .22lr on fox to max 50yds head shot is ok. But Dadioles also asked about Muntjac. NO WAY. Legal minimum is .220 CENTREFIRE, !000 ft.lbs. Hornet isn't powerful enough. .222,.223, .22-250, .220 Swift. Likewise CWD.

[Colster 1]

There is no legal minimum for fox but there is for deer. Some forces try and enforce a minimum for fox but how enforceable this is is uncertain as no test case has ever decided.

 

LR and HMR will both drop a fox but don't expect them to do it at the same range that they would drop rabbits.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Colster

[matt_hooks 188]

There's no specific offence, or minimum calibre, for shooting foxes. You just need to be sure that firstly your rifle conditions don't forbid it, and secondly that you can make a reasonably quick, clean and humane kill. I've not shot foxes with the .22, but would be happy within about 50 yards that a clean headshot would be humane. If you shoot one with a lower powered rifle, and it isn't cleanly killed, you could face charges of causing un-necessary suffering to a wild animal.

[danebrewer10 6]

first, considering the wording on your cert it looks OK

 

Humane? totally. provided you can place the shot accurately every time, a fox will die with a hole through his head and a scrambeled brain, mo matter what the diameter.

 

shot placement? I have shot 3 foxes with my HMR, one in the head at about 40m, right between the eyes, went down just like that, eyes bulging a tad, brain most definitely scrambeled,

the second, at about 40m, broadside on ( a small fox of that years litter) and right behind the shoulder, dropped like the proverbial stone,

and the third, again right behind the shoulder at about 20m, so close the crosshairs on the fixed 6 were a bit fuzzy, again dropped on the spot, not such a small fox this time, a largeish vixen.

 

anything further than 40m, I would definitely opt for the head shot, ideally looking straight on right between the eyes, side on (further than 40m), I'd go for right in front of the ear. no more than 100m away would be my max range I think

 

as for less than 40m, if it's a smaller fox with smaller less robust bones, then a broadside chest shot behind the front leg in the heart area will do the trick (remember aim small miss small!) and fron on ,I'd think one righ in from the front would knock him down, though I haven't tried this particular shot myself, if anyone could enlighten me there....

[stalkerboydy 4]

first, considering the wording on your cert it looks OK

 

Humane? totally. provided you can place the shot accurately every time, a fox will die with a hole through his head and a scrambeled brain, mo matter what the diameter.

 

shot placement? I have shot 3 foxes with my HMR, one in the head at about 40m, right between the eyes, went down just like that, eyes bulging a tad, brain most definitely scrambeled,

the second, at about 40m, broadside on ( a small fox of that years litter) and right behind the shoulder, dropped like the proverbial stone,

and the third, again right behind the shoulder at about 20m, so close the crosshairs on the fixed 6 were a bit fuzzy, again dropped on the spot, not such a small fox this time, a largeish vixen.

 

anything further than 40m, I would definitely opt for the head shot, ideally looking straight on right between the eyes, side on (further than 40m), I'd go for right in front of the ear. no more than 100m away would be my max range I think

 

as for less than 40m, if it's a smaller fox with smaller less robust bones, then a broadside chest shot behind the front leg in the heart area will do the trick (remember aim small miss small!) and fron on ,I'd think one righ in from the front would knock him down, though I haven't tried this particular shot myself, if anyone could enlighten me there....

 

 

VERY good to see for once sensible sound advice given reference .17HMR an Fox's Frontal chest shot can/are good but go left or right a tad and the projectile is down the rib cage or into one of the shoulders, go low an get it right Job done infact to be honest i would rather take this shot than in between the eyes JMHO

Edited February 3, 2011 by stalkerboydy

[dadioles 68]

Many thanks for giving me such good and well thought out advice, I am very grateful. You have the experience, I do not.

It is just nice to store the info away somewhere in my brain because you never know what might pop up when out shooting.

 

I asked about Muntjac because there are quite a few around here and they are something of a nuisance. Someone told me they were classed as rodents and not deer. That is wrong of course.

I now know that, unlike all other deer species, there is no closed season for muntjac. No deer, including muntjac, can be shot with anything less than .22 50grain 1000fps so that leaves me out.

 

A few weeks ago I was popping targets on one of my permissions when a beautiful herd of roe deer wandered past in the next field, it included one albino deer. The farmer and his wife turned up to see how I was getting on and I was chatting to the wife saying how wonderful the deer were and she agreed. My mate David, the farmer said "shoot the buggers, bloody deer, they fu*k up my crops....". Hey Ho....

 

Les

Edited February 4, 2011 by dadioles

[cyclonebri1 8]

The real questio assuming you do it correctly is "who the hell is gonna know""

 

Simplistic but so true, dead foxies don't sqwark.

[danebrewer10 6]

The real questio assuming you do it correctly is "who the hell is gonna know""

 

Simplistic but so true, dead foxies don't sqwark.

 

you'd be surprised.....only takes for someone with half a knowlege of firearms and wild animals to know, a trafic stop by a copper who's into shooting, you never know, unless you like the idea of a criminal conviction and the loss of your firearms.....

 

on secod thoughts you are discussing foxes here and not munties? but I guess the same thing goes for charlie, if you're not allowed to shoot foxes with the rifle you have on the certificate, you don't do it! end of!

Edited February 4, 2011 by danebrewer10

[Colster 1]

I asked about Muntjac because there are quite a few around here and they are something of a nuisance. Someone told me they were classed as rodents and not deer. That is wrong of course.

 

I'm guessing they/you meant vermin. They might be classed as Vermin (but their status as Deer takes priority) but they are definitely not rodents.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Colster

[irishnut 297]

either rifle has enough power out to 40yrds to make a hole in a fox brain or heart, and holes in these 2 places will drop the fox.

i believe at 40yrds the better tool for the job will be the 22lr, it will have plenty of power at this range. i've never been a fan of shooting anything bigger than a bunny with a 17hmr.

[doddsy1970 9]

Legally it is fine to shoot foxes with either the .22lr or the 17hmr although morally some people are against it. I personally have shot alot of foxes with both calbres over the years and it is all down to distance and ability. Out to 50 yds with the 22 and 75yds with the 17. My mate has shot them at longer distances with his hmr but he is alot better shot than me. If we see one and we dont have one of the bigger rifles with us (which is very rare) it gets left for another night.

 

As for deer..... Muntjac and CWD (and roe in scotland) can only be shot with a minimumin .220 with a bullet weight of 50 grains, generating a muzzle energy of 1000FP. This is where the .220 falls short because it generates less than 1000fp. The smallest calibre is a 222 which generates just over 1000fp with a 50grain bullet. Larger deer require a minimum 240 generating 1700fp This is for shooting deer in England. I know Scotland and Ireland are different.