PLUMMER TERRIER OF OLD

[Cleanspade 3,324]

  On 27/01/2011 at 13:51, FightTheBan said:

Talk is cheap tiny tiger.

If you do indeed have what you say you have, you are in the minority(massively).

 

The type is still fecked as a genuine digging terrier.

 

FTB

 

the breed may be fecked. but the type is around the working scene for a while yet

[Cleanspade 3,324]

  On 27/01/2011 at 11:05, Moll. said:

  On 26/01/2011 at 00:23, dai dogs said:

the dog in the pic was about twice the weight of the plummer terriers you see today.

 

This is only my opinion, but based on my experiences. When the plummers were first around, they were bred to hopefully be digging dogs. Hence the shape/size they were. When the hunting ban came in certain breeders (not all) have changed the look of the terrier, after first promoting the dog as an earth dog they changed tact as they believed at first digging was banned, then realised that the general public would find the thought of a dog killing fox less appealing than a dog killing horrible nasty vermin, so the current plummers you see are skinny long legged, now promoted as ratting dogs...why...MONEY.

 

 

 

 

cracker of a terrier that

[Cleanspade 3,324]

 

 

probably would be a cull to a lot of digging lads but she suits me fine and does a bit to ground

[Cleanspade 3,324]

nothing wrong with a good argument as ong as it stays sensible

 

 

i dont know about yorkies but my maw had a fancy foxterrier bitch that would fly to ground.and bay like thunder and when wet through had a muzzle as fine as a yorky

[Bosun11 537]

It's always a shame that these threds 'usually' go the same way... If it's not aguing about earthwork then its about the different fractions of these terriers (who keeps the propper type etc)..!!

 

For what its worth heres my two penneth worth, in the main, based on what has been written by Plummer himself...

 

The Plummer terrier originated out of lines of Welsh terriers that were primarily used for earth work BUT Plummer never classed himself as a digging man, stating he had a 'dislike' for it and used the dogs, in the main, as ratters.

 

Plummer wanted a pack of terriers (or better put, terriers that worked in a pack) for the large scale rat hunts. He also wanted a legacy left behind and wanted both a terrier that could be identified as his and that would be named after him.

 

The copper coloured, blanket marked dogs came about by using various other terrier blood, mainly out of hunt kennels but Plummer used various outcrosses, terrier, bull terrier and beagle to create his legacy further down the line.

 

It is written that various hunt terriers were used, then a bull terrier and somewhere beagle blood. When writing Fell Terrier, he met Hinchcliff of the Pennine Foxhounds and introduced his blood but kept only one pup back to introduce to the line.

 

The vast majority of his own dogs never seen earthwork.

 

All of the above is written in his books, fact or fiction, look it up.

 

What, to me is clear, is that Plummer never set out to breed digging dogs..! By dint of heratage, 'some' of this 'original' stuff should and would work underground.

 

I have no idea if it was when he moved to Caithness or after his death that the breed split into various fractions, each claiming to be the 'better'... and, quite frankly.. Who gives a feck... because in the main, all it has done is made what could be a very useful, knock about terrier a fecking laughing stock... So shame on all involved...!!

 

I would also add, that if there really are honest good digging Plummer Terriers out there, then why are they so guarded, why is it almost a secret never to be told, because surely, if such dogs could be bred from and spread, ever so slightly, the future of the Plummer Terrier would look so much brighter, in that bred to perform at earthwork, all the other functions that their creator bred them for would still be there...???

 

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Bosun 11,yet again a very informed sensible well written post, unlike some of the stupid hearsay prattled on by an ignorant,ill informed bunch of fools that have probably never even owned a working terrier,there are a small minority of plummer owner's trying to breed off known plummer earthdogs,most are not online on any site but do possess the real deal,there are a few kennels now producing dogs of the right size and temperament and the known earthdogs are being put together to try and get a steady line back on track,the breeds problems occurred when the various clubs were hi-jacked by men and women with no earthworking experience,they then took the breed over and led a very middle class ownership down the road of breeding pretty showdogs that had to have the right coat patterns,they bred dogs that were too large for earthwork and spread propaganda that they were just ratting terrier's,they created their own market by running their own club show's and selling pups for outrageous prices beyond the reach of most decent working class lads,95% of plummer's will not see any serious work but a minority get worked hard on a regular basis and these are the working lines future,if the infighting of clubs ever stops the gene pool may be big enough to produce a decent stock of plummer's,the problem lies with the commitee's of the main clubs not getting along and this has been to the detriment of the breed,I have had plummer's since 1980 and bred many excellent worker's off them,crossing them with fell,russell's lakies,in fact any good hardworking terrier of the right size and temperament,I bought a plummer dog 8yrs ago from a known 100% working line that has been as good a dog as any I've been out with in my lifetime,I have a bitch thats just coming up 2yrs and she has not disappointed me,there are some decent dogs out there but they are difficult to find and due to the nature of earthwork in england now not many will take up a fools challenge like the one offered by foxdropper,foxdropper you talk of secondhand age old conversations with a biased uncle that once met plummer,all plummer's dogs and lines are not the same,there are some that work and some that don't,the same as "all"breeds of terrier that are about these day's and people do not have to prove their dogs ability to anyone,if its good enough for them then so be it,one mans word is as good as another and we all should be respectful of someone elses choice of dog,not ridicule as it only shows your obvious lack of working dog experience,we have all been surprised by the most unlikely dogs at some time or other,never pre-judge another mans dog as there is normally a reason he is keeping it,we all live and learn everyday,you never know if you were to actually read a post's content even you might learn something,atb,wirralman

[tinytiger 850]

  On 26/01/2011 at 17:26, FightTheBan said:

They are a joke terrier.

I would place them in the same category as glen of immal, sporting lucas etc.

 

Yes the occasional one may do a spell underground, but you would have better odds getting a tit wank off cheryl cole.

 

FTB

 

 

what do you keeep yourself,if you keep terriers.

[FightTheBan 1,147]

  On 28/01/2011 at 03:14, tinytiger said:

  On 26/01/2011 at 17:26, FightTheBan said:

They are a joke terrier.

I would place them in the same category as glen of immal, sporting lucas etc.

 

Yes the occasional one may do a spell underground, but you would have better odds getting a tit wank off cheryl cole.

 

FTB

 

 

what do you keeep yourself,if you keep terriers.

 

 

Whatever grafts...I'm not colour blind.

But primarily russels.

 

 

FTB

[tinytiger 850]

  On 27/01/2011 at 21:12, Cleanspade said:

nothing wrong with a good argument as ong as it stays sensible

 

 

i dont know about yorkies but my maw had a fancy foxterrier bitch that would fly to ground.and bay like thunder and when wet through had a muzzle as fine as a yorky

 

 

one of the hardest dogs i ever saw was a K.c wire fox terrier- sired by a dog that won crufts in the early 90s

[stormyboy 1,352]

Good posts there Bosun and wirralman. I feel that the plummer will become primarily a show dog,if and when KC registration is achieved. None can deny that they are a very attractive terrier,and if thats what future owners will require then good luck to them.

 

The fact is that at the moment there are plummers that do a good job at all tasks required of them,including ground work. The folks that do work them hard seem to seek out older lines,many of which were well proven earth dogs.They still exist,but the folk i know that have them do not need to compensate for small genitals by crowing about it. :clapping:

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Well said BILL,never a truer word spoken,atb,wirralman

[MOO 730]

Did any one who owns these reguarly dug to plummers take fox dropper up on his offer?

[whin 463]

EASY WAY TO NO HOW GOOD THE PLUMMERS ARE LIKE THE BORDERS ETC GO TO ANY HILL KEEPER AND SEE WHAT HE USES TO DESTROY FXES ETC a few mates are keen on digging not yet sen aplumeers in there kennels , when i had amad spell wiith themvever came across any good plummers there will be some but not many THE HILL KEEPERS WHOSE JOB IS TO DEN DIG SNARE SHOOT THE USE WHAT DOES THE JOB WELL THE GOD GUYS WHO NO A GOOD TERREIR DONTNO IF PLUMMER SARE ABOUT IN THERE SCOPE YET

[fireman 11,033]

Easy way to see how shit whin's dogs are?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just go out with them,i did :laugh: :laugh:

[whin 463]

yet to see a good plummer there maybe some about but none of the proper digging lads i no entertain them up on the hill more for showing and pets and odd bit of work ,saw a few crossed but hit and miss dogs, i no they make good bushing and ratting dogs old mate had one but not a serous terrrier mans dog