Pure breed

[sallie 67]

Registration is only good for one thing, and that to increase the value of the "merchandise"! As Tearem said, fraud with pedigree dogs is bigger then everybody knows. So it will come down to your believe and trust in the breeder to trust that you bought a well bred dog, isn't this also the case with dogs without a "FCI" pedigee?

 

I also was once a follower of the "purebred" dog, but whats that? And even when we can pinpoint the exact details of when a dog becomes "purebred" what will it do for the breed? Look around and see whats happening. They will end up just breeding "pedigrees" instead of dogs.

 

I think it is a disservice to a breed to become recognised.

I agree with your statement, very rare for a terrier to get ill but the pedigrees are always sick making vets a lot of money not to mention all the poor conformation the KC have encouraged.

[fatpat 7]

Registration is only good for one thing, and that to increase the value of the "merchandise"! As Tearem said, fraud with pedigree dogs is bigger then everybody knows. So it will come down to your believe and trust in the breeder to trust that you bought a well bred dog, isn't this also the case with dogs without a "FCI" pedigee?

 

I also was once a follower of the "purebred" dog, but whats that? And even when we can pinpoint the exact details of when a dog becomes "purebred" what will it do for the breed? Look around and see whats happening. They will end up just breeding "pedigrees" instead of dogs.

 

I think it is a disservice to a breed to become recognised.

Real good point there Nick "what will it do for the breed" i have always been led to believe that an out cross was needed every so often to invigorate the blood, how can that happen in a closed breed with limited numbers of breeding lines ? the longer the breed lasts the more inbred it must get !

[fatpat 7]

The KC well,to accept a new breed it takes years and im sure some knowledgeable person on here will know far more than me. Parson Jack Russells are one of the most recent i think to have been accepted by the KC. Personally I dont know why anyone would want to be part of the KC i feel they do more harm than good but thats just my opinion. To much red tape to many rules and regulations. As I understand with a conversation with someone from the KC a patterdale is nothing more than a mongrel and totally unacceptable. So i would imagine thats how it is for all unregistered breeds. This explains in part how to register a new breed.http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/603

As for pure breed when does it become pure, I would say if you are breeding and you keep records, know your bloodlines and have a good many generations, but im still not sure that means that they are pure as they have been crossed somewhere but then even the KC refistered breeds have been crossed somewhere. Very interesting though.

The reason someone would want to go kc is MONEY ! i often wonder if we would be better saying that there are pure families/lines within a breed rather than calling them pure breeds ?

[sallie 67]

I think the trouble with any organisation is that it starts off with the best of intentions, money comes in, it gets beaurocratic, the committee end up with just a few people that rule for years and years and its no longer democratic a bit like politics. You rarely see anyone at the top without money. Long may the terriers remain free.

Some people within the kennel club sell puppies for thousands. I know someone who has just paid 600.00 for a sharpei and before it got to her all the pups had there eyelids stiched back to prevent them rolling inwards and for they eye to grow into the right place. I was told this is common practice for this breed and they are KC registered.

[fatpat 7]

I think the trouble with any organisation is that it starts off with the best of intentions, money comes in, it gets beaurocratic, the committee end up with just a few people that rule for years and years and its no longer democratic a bit like politics. You rarely see anyone at the top without money. Long may the terriers remain free.

Some people within the kennel club sell puppies for thousands. I know someone who has just paid 600.00 for a sharpei and before it got to her all the pups had there eyelids stiched back to prevent them rolling inwards and for they eye to grow into the right place. I was told this is common practice for this breed and they are KC registered.

I have met a few of these top kc people, felt like i was back at school an the teacher was lookin at me like i had done something wrong ! lol, i have kc parsons myself and have been to a few shows, but its not for me never been so bored in my life !! im hoping to get my parsons worked with a mate of mine, will see then if they are any good, they are a nice strong type so fingers crossed !

[sallie 67]

I think the trouble with any organisation is that it starts off with the best of intentions, money comes in, it gets beaurocratic, the committee end up with just a few people that rule for years and years and its no longer democratic a bit like politics. You rarely see anyone at the top without money. Long may the terriers remain free.

Some people within the kennel club sell puppies for thousands. I know someone who has just paid 600.00 for a sharpei and before it got to her all the pups had there eyelids stiched back to prevent them rolling inwards and for they eye to grow into the right place. I was told this is common practice for this breed and they are KC registered.

I have met a few of these top kc people, felt like i was back at school an the teacher was lookin at me like i had done something wrong ! lol, i have kc parsons myself and have been to a few shows, but its not for me never been so bored in my life !! im hoping to get my parsons worked with a mate of mine, will see then if they are any good, they are a nice strong type so fingers crossed !

Good luck with them, do you have any pictures?

[fatpat 7]

I think the trouble with any organisation is that it starts off with the best of intentions, money comes in, it gets beaurocratic, the committee end up with just a few people that rule for years and years and its no longer democratic a bit like politics. You rarely see anyone at the top without money. Long may the terriers remain free.

Some people within the kennel club sell puppies for thousands. I know someone who has just paid 600.00 for a sharpei and before it got to her all the pups had there eyelids stiched back to prevent them rolling inwards and for they eye to grow into the right place. I was told this is common practice for this breed and they are KC registered.

I have met a few of these top kc people, felt like i was back at school an the teacher was lookin at me like i had done something wrong ! lol, i have kc parsons myself and have been to a few shows, but its not for me never been so bored in my life !! im hoping to get my parsons worked with a mate of mine, will see then if they are any good, they are a nice strong type so fingers crossed !

Good luck with them, do you have any pictures?

Not got a clue how to put pics up !! lol

[fatpat 7]

If you look up the jappatin web site you can see a few of my dogs,jappatin poler ice is my stud dog and there is two or three other dogs bred by me as well ( torlishill is my prefix )hope you like them.

[sallie 67]

Very smart yes i do like them.

[fatpat 7]

So basically what your saying folks is that there is NOT !! such a thing as a pure breed of terrier ! Thanks for the comments very interesting.

[stevemac 442]

I wonder what the kc take is on pure breeds ? what do they look for when accepting a new breed ?

a pur breed is a line or strain of dog bred in a closed gene pool and has bred to type for 7 generations in australia at least in the states they except dogs with a 3 generation proven pedigree.

Edited January 31, 2011 by stevemac

[fatpat 7]

I wonder what the kc take is on pure breeds ? what do they look for when accepting a new breed ?

a pur breed is a line or strain of dog bred in a closed gene pool and has bred to type for 7 generations in australia at least in the states they except dogs with a 3 generation proven pedigree.

So in reality the show dogs with their closed gene pool are more "pure" than any off the working breeds!

[fatpat 7]

A dog doesn't even HAVE to be scarred to be a good worker. With "ugly" I mean mostly they are just normal looking, of quiet disposition, and in no way striking or exaggerated, so not of interest to show people. Some of the best avoid contact and are still useful. A friend of mine, an Englishman living in Holland has Russells, mostly from Chapman, and goes to ground predators a lot, but his dogs are hardly touched.

Mine are a bit, having 50+ hunting days a year to big ground predators and mainly boar.

But compared to packs of purebred German hunt terriers, mine look formidably whole! And they survive the seasons, too, and get better and more cunning each year they live.

My best dog is hardly ever damaged and if so, only slightly. Years ago, I had a female which still hunted pigs on her own if every other man's dog, hound, terrier or cross, including my entire pack, refused, cause they got tired, the weather was bad, and there were thorn bushes. She only got hit 2 times in her life, when she was old and had a heart condition. Even those accidents were minor. No need to say, I bred to her and my present dogs have partly her blood.

Through the British terriers, I bred the sense back into them and I am grateful.

Does Chapman still work any terriers or just show at kc ?

[Nick 14]

Looking around at the Patterdale game, I see they register Patterdales in the States, and maybe also in other country's?. As I understand they do not register crosbreeds at the moment anymore if I understood right?!

 

Who is kidding who? One thing is for certain, the best workingdogs will probably never be registered. Why? Simply because a lot of people do not care about the paperwork. The dogs must be able to do their job, and that paper is not telling you it can, it can be a indication, but on the end it is still paper.

 

What if somebody thinks he needs a outcross? He will do it no matter what somebody else is saying,the job is most important.

 

Then we have somebody who is actually registering his dogs, he likes that crosbred dog because it has something that he needs in his line.......He will use that dog and say to the registering office another dog is the dad....... Have been around some registered workingbreeds, and I can say this is common practice!

 

So on the end none of the peds are correct, and you have created a dividing factor between the real workingdogs and their registered newest model, not to say flavour of the month.

 

You can register dogs, but at least you should be prepared to have a OPEN registration, also for crossbreeds or dogs that have strange blood, only thing is that you have to mark where that strange blood came in on the pedigree, so that people who don't like/want that can avoid it. Simply, just like on your written pedigree!.And you have to KEEP the register open for all dogs that never where registered by their breeder. Thinking about that........ registration for a workingbreed is not really helpfull I guess.

 

Frank

[fatpat 7]

Looking around at the Patterdale game, I see they register Patterdales in the States, and maybe also in other country's?. As I understand they do not register crosbreeds at the moment anymore if I understood right?!

 

Who is kidding who? One thing is for certain, the best workingdogs will probably never be registered. Why? Simply because a lot of people do not care about the paperwork. The dogs must be able to do their job, and that paper is not telling you it can, it can be a indication, but on the end it is still paper.

 

What if somebody thinks he needs a outcross? He will do it no matter what somebody else is saying,the job is most important.

 

Then we have somebody who is actually registering his dogs, he likes that crosbred dog because it has something that he needs in his line.......He will use that dog and say to the registering office another dog is the dad....... Have been around some registered workingbreeds, and I can say this is common practice!

 

So on the end none of the peds are correct, and you have created a dividing factor between the real workingdogs and their registered newest model, not to say flavour of the month.

 

You can register dogs, but at least you should be prepared to have a OPEN registration, also for crossbreeds or dogs that have strange blood, only thing is that you have to mark where that strange blood came in on the pedigree, so that people who don't like/want that can avoid it. Simply, just like on your written pedigree!.And you have to KEEP the register open for all dogs that never where registered by their breeder. Thinking about that........ registration for a workingbreed is not really helpfull I guess.

 

Frank

Would we not be better calling working terriers working types rather than working breeds ? with all the crosses in them how can they be called a breed ?