lamaha 7 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Could anybody shed light on the different types of cartrigdes out there i.e.shot sizes and different specific uses for cartridges. The reason for this is we are deciding whether to get a shotgun for our pest control buisness. We have briefly looked at the .410 option, possibly moderated.Its uses could be humane dispatch of a Fox in a live trap and general pest control on the rural jobs. Or are we barking up the wrong tree altogether? All input greatly appreciated! Quote Link to post
nasher1 258 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 A .410 is ideal for trapped fox dispatch as its point blank you could use 2" carts for squirrel work you could step up to 3" magnums, but it also depends what other pests you have to deal with if its woodpigeons you cant beat a 12g, if you are going to get a sgc you might as well have both right tool for the job as they say, hope this helps atb nasher Quote Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Could anybody shed light on the different types of cartrigdes out there i.e.shot sizes and different specific uses for cartridges. It's a bit of a vast and wide ranging question [also edited to make a point more clear]. So, lets look at the 12 bore. Obviously the shotgun is for short range killing, under 50 yards but the shot can travel up to and over 300 yards. It takes time to learn the skills for moving targets but obviously cage trapped animals are easy targets. For simplicity the smaller the shot size the greater the killing potential, size 8 shot will have less killing potential than say size 4 shot both will kill at close range and at close range there are more balls with 8 shot. Basically a 12 bore cartridge hold a 1/12 of a pound of lead, so the smaller the shot size or ball size the greater number of balls in the cartridge, which can be confusing for example size 4 shot is physically bigger than size 8 shot but there are more individual balls in a size 8 shot cartridge than in a size 4 shot cartridge, however the size 4 shot is bigger and heavier and thus hold more energy at longer ranges than size 8 shot, if you get my drift. In general size 6 shot is universal, used for crows, pigeons, rabbits. Most people will not use any shot smaller in physical size than 7 1/2 and that's for pigeons but 8 is used on snipe. Shot size 5 & 4 for duck and high pheasant and anything bigger for goose, fox and deer. The thing to remember is that the higher the number the smaller the physical shot size but the higher amount of shot in the cartridge but in all cases equal to almost 1/12 of a pound of lead. In all bore sizes it's the same, 20 bore equals 1/20th of a pound of lead, 16 bore 1/16th of a pound of lead and obviously the smaller the bore the less recoil is felt by the shooter as everything has an equal and opposite reaction or in other words a 20th of a pound of lead is is twice as light as a 10th of a pound of lead so a "twenty bore" will have half the felt recoil of a "ten bore" if both guns were to weigh the same weight. The exception being the .410 which is a bore diameter and not a measurement of the amount of lead contained in the cartridge. All "bores" or calibres of shotguns will come in "magnum" which mean more power but not necessarily more killing range!! And then of course you have the powder charge, 28 gram, 32 gram, 36 gram of shot etc etc. The more powder the faster the lead balls and obviously the more energy each ball has which results in more killing power but greater recoil.For example 1oz (28 gram) cartridge will have around 270 odd balls of shot in 6 shot and 450 odd balls of shot in 8 shot. 1 1/8 (32 gram) 310 in 6 shot and 500 in 8 shot. Take two cartridges say both in 6 shot but with differing loads and the powder charge will change to give differing velocities in cartridge and also differing levels of recoil due to heavier or lighter loads of shot even with the same size of shot (equal and opposite reactions again). You may also have a given cartridge with "6 shot 28 grams" producing higher velocity than one with "6 shot 32 grams", so the former load would have more killing potential in terms of the energy each ball of shot has due to a higher velocity. Where as the latter load would have more shot but less velocity and in some cases the opposite is true, just a case of testing and trial and error. I don't think you can find much better than Eley Grand Prix #6 1oz and I hate Black gold #6 but thats just my opinion. Check out manufactures data to obtain velocities of the cartridges and then compare. For all of the above, 28 gram "8 shot" would be a good option for clay shooting. 36 gram "4 shot" for ducks. 30 gram "6 shot" for rabbits. The 28 gram load of 8 shot having less recoil than 36 gram load of 4 shot, as your going to be shooting a whole lot more at clays, the lighter recoil is a god sent. To add to all of this you then have chokes! the smaller or tighter the choke the greater amount of shot will hit your target at longer ranges and thus adds to the over all killing effect of your chosen cartridge but like everything else it can be a complex ritual to find the perfect cartridge/choke combination of your gun with some combinations blowing holes in the centre of the shot pattern down range. Hope that is a start John Edited January 23, 2011 by HUnter_zero Quote Link to post
matt_hooks 188 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 John. A slight correction. The bore size represents the number of spherical lead balls the same diameter as the bore which make up a pound. This isn't the same as the weight of shot in the cartridge. As you noted, 12 bore cartridges vary between very light sporting loads for clays, around the 24 gram area, right up to heavy weight wildfowling and foxing loads, of 50 plus grams. Then you have the seriously heavy loads, such as the single slugs and very large shot sizes. A single slug will weigh considerably more than 1/12 of a pound! Other than that slight issue, John gives good advice! I find a number 5 shot is a good all rounder, though some like sixes. It's a matter of experience! Quote Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 John. A slight correction. The bore size represents the number of spherical lead balls the same diameter as the bore which make up a pound. A single slug will weigh considerably more than 1/12 of a pound! Other than that slight issue, John gives good advice! Matt, I would be very interested if you could point me in the direction of a 12 bore single slug with a weight of over 1 3/8 oz. Other than that slight issue, thanks for your support John Quote Link to post
lamaha 7 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thats great! Thanks for taking the time to give such complete replies. The points covered have shined a light onto alot of the areas i was not sure of! So it seems flexability is a Shotguns strength, but i still see the point of correct tool for the job. Thanks again Maybe a pinned post would be in order and John's post gets my vote. Quote Link to post
lamaha 7 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 One last query! Are all these different sizes of shot, in there respective guage, available with a SGC? Quote Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 One last query! Are all these different sizes of shot, in there respective guage, available with a SGC? Yes with the exception of a single ball/slug The great thing with a SGC is you can have as many "guns" as you can store in all the different actions and bores and no limit on cartridges. John Quote Link to post
JOHNBOY 18 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Could anybody shed light on the different types of cartrigdes out there i.e.shot sizes and different specific uses for cartridges. It's a bit of a vast and wide ranging question. So, lets look at the 12 bore. Obviously the shotgun is for short range killing, under 50 yards but the shot can travel up to and over 300 yards. It takes time to learn the skills for moving targets but obviously cage trapped animals are easy targets. For simplicity the smaller the shot size the greater the killing potential, size 8 shot will have less killing potential than say size 4 shot both will kill at close range and at close range there are more balls with 8 shot. Basically a 12 bore cartridge hold a 1/12 of a pound of lead, so the smaller the shot size or ball size the greater number of balls in the cartridge, which can be confusing for example size 4 shot is physically bigger than size 8 shot but there are more individual balls in a size 8 shot cartridge than in a size 4 shot cartridge, however the size 4 shot is bigger and heavier and thus hold more energy at longer ranges than size 8 shot, if you get my drift. In general size 6 shot is universal, used for crows, pigeons, rabbits. Most people will not use any shot smaller in physical size than 7 1/2 and that's for pigeons. Shot size 5 & 4 for duck and high pheasant and anything bigger for goose, fox and deer. The thing to remember is that the higher the number the smaller the physical shot size but the higher amount of shot in the cartridge but in all cases equal to almost 1/12 of a pound of lead. In all bore sizes it's the same, 20 bore equals 1/20th of a pound of lead, 16 bore 1/16th of a pound of lead and obviously the smaller the bore the less recoil is felt by the shooter as everything has an equal and opposite reaction or in other words a 20th of a pound of lead is is twice as light as a 10th of a pound of lead so a "twenty bore" will have half the felt recoil of a "ten bore" if both guns were to weigh the same weight. The exception being the .410 which is a bore diameter and not a measurement of the amount of lead contained in the cartridge. All "bores" or calibres of shotguns will come in "magnum" which mean more power but not necessarily more killing range!! And then of course you have the powder charge, 28 gram, 32 gram, 36 gram etc etc. The more powder the faster the lead balls and obviously the more energy each ball has which results in more killing power but greater recoil. For all of the above, 28 gram "8 shot" would be a good option for clay shooting. 36 gram "4 shot" for ducks. 30 gram "6 shot" for rabbits. To add to all of this you then have chokes! the smaller or tighter the choke the greater amount of shot will hit your target at longer ranges and thus adds to the over all killing effect of your chosen cartridge but like everything else it can be a complex ritual to find the perfect cartridge/choke combination of your gun with some combinations blowing holes in the centre of the shot pattern down range. Hope that is a start John 28 gram, 32 26 etc are not weights of powder charge, but the weight of the amount of shot, what made you think it was the weight of the powder ? Quote Link to post
colint5 47 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Could anybody shed light on the different types of cartrigdes out there i.e.shot sizes and different specific uses for cartridges. The reason for this is we are deciding whether to get a shotgun for our pest control buisness. We have briefly looked at the .410 option, possibly moderated.Its uses could be humane dispatch of a Fox in a live trap and general pest control on the rural jobs. Or are we barking up the wrong tree altogether? All input greatly appreciated! what are you using to dispatch the fox in your live traps just now ? Quote Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) 28 gram, 32 26 etc are not weights of powder charge, but the weight of the amount of shot, what made you think it was the weight of the powder ? Yes, it reads that way but not meant to read that way but hey that's the problem with off the cuff posts. {just edited the post}. John Edited January 23, 2011 by HUnter_zero Quote Link to post
lamaha 7 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Could anybody shed light on the different types of cartrigdes out there i.e.shot sizes and different specific uses for cartridges. The reason for this is we are deciding whether to get a shotgun for our pest control buisness. We have briefly looked at the .410 option, possibly moderated.Its uses could be humane dispatch of a Fox in a live trap and general pest control on the rural jobs. Or are we barking up the wrong tree altogether? All input greatly appreciated! what are you using to dispatch the fox in your live traps just now ? At present we take the trapped fox to a local guy for dispatch and disposal, but the issue is reducing the stress to the fox whenever possible and dispatch on site. Quote Link to post
lamaha 7 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 28 gram, 32 26 etc are not weights of powder charge, but the weight of the amount of shot, what made you think it was the weight of the powder ? Yes, it reads that way but not meant to read that way but hey that's the problem with off the cuff posts. {just edited the post}. John John nobody else jumped in and the info you gave was a great help and a starting point that has encouraged us along a route we felt good for us. Thanks for that and dont be discouraged from doing so in the future by knockers that seem only to pick holes! Positive points and critisism is welcome, down right rudeness in the face of helpfulness can go elsewhere! Quote Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 John nobody else jumped in and the info you gave was a great help and a starting point that has encouraged us along a route we felt good for us. As long as it's helped you that's all that matters! A .410 will dispatch a fox for you no doubt at all, the only really issue being the report of the gun if your in urban environments. As a pest control company you also have the option of a humane dispatch pistol (FAC) and of course you could also use a moderated .22rf if noise was an issue. Bottom line is that there is nothing preventing you from applying for all for the above and due to your work you would be granted both FAC & SGC. You might need to look at your insurance just to make sure it covers you for "live fire", I know in work (I also work in the pest control industry) we have a problem with live fire due to the H&S issues, but as you would have more control over the guns usage your risks would be greatly reduced. John Quote Link to post
kev1986 0 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 why not apply for both fac and sgc then get a 22lr and a .410 moderated then you sorted for rabbits, crows, pigeons,squirrel, dispatch of fox in trap atb kev Quote Link to post
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.