if pitbulls were legal in the uk?

[gnasher16 30,063]

Just my take on things....In the pre APBT days, which were obviously pre-DDA and pre-internet days, an interest in owning a bull terrier didnt seem as prevalent and widespread as it is now. Mass communication was the tv, telephone and newspaper. It wasnt the situation in 100% of the cases, but a lot of lads who kept sporting dogs did so for specific reasons. There was no A-frame, or weight pull or other athletic dog sports to legitimise the casual ownership of such dogs. Sure the pet homes kept them, but nowhere near to the extent that they do now. If a lad wanted in on this type, then he would invariably have to get off his arse and put the hard yards in, earn his apprenticeship and become accepted. I dont see a single thing wrong with that. The people who wanted/needed the dogs, where the ones who kept the dogs and were the custodians of them, and in view they should have been mindful of where the pups went. Those willing to take a risk, or unable to get in-the-know could take a pup from show/pet bred parents, and plenty did this, some with good results, some not so good. Then came the dogs from overseas, and whilst they didnt come with a guarantee, the strike rate was probably higher than that of domestic dogs which were easily available to the layman. So you soon had a situation where there was a new product on the shelves, and this product was not only more potent than the existing brand (in a lot of cases), it was also marketed nationally and available to whomever turned up with the right cash. A new exotic product, which quickly gained an aura of notoriety, and available to all. The dogs quickly moved from the (semi) exclusive preserve of the sporting men to being owned by all and sundry. There was no need for an apprenticeship anymore. When this knowledge and these dogs had to be sought, and worked for, and strived for and effort had to be expended, there were fewer. Once the genie is out of the bottle, its very hard to put it back in. So you had a situation whereby certain owners of these dogs didnt realise the potential that the dogs had. Or maybe they did and thats why they bought them anyway. Regardless, people who in my mind, had no business owning them, had them for whatever reason. And what did they do? Some bred them. Clawed back the cost of the initial outlay and then some. Were they good enough examples to be bred from? How would the majority know that? They wouldnt have been tested to see. So the genie grows and grows and grows, until one day, someone says enough. Enter the DDA. I know a lot of people who thought that the DDA was a good thing, because it meant that once again, if you wanted one of these dogs, you had to put the hard yards in, had to serve your time and be accepted. Not all of the time, as most of us will realise, but enough to make it harder for the layman. You had to be aware of the risks involved in owning these dogs and what that meant not only to your dog, but also to you. The product disappeared from the shelves. That didnt last long though, and once again, some decided to sell to whomever had the money, and the merry go round started again. Like all things that become desirable, moody versions start appearing, so just like the La Costa ski jacket I bought from Chatham market in 1984, people bought facsimiles of the real thing. That notoriety of owning a banned breed was available and with markedly less risk. I even had the pleasure of seeing two asian gentlemen walking a Tosa into a hall in Manchester once. It looked like someone had crossed Scooby-f*****g-Doo with Red Rum. We now live with the internet, and more and more people are talking to each other. Notoriety can be instant and apprenticeships are no longer needed. Maybe they are for the working side of things, but ownership becomes substantially easier. Have the dogs become better? Some might have, but on the whole, they become diluted as each generation passes without testing them. And who keeps the better ones? Probably the same lads who had them before the genie was out of the bottle, or at least earned their stripes with those blokes. In the publics eye the moody facsimiles become the real thing, and perception becomes reality and they are either vilified, heaping more unwarranted scorn on the original, or they are coveted and more are bred. More often than not, both situations happen in tandem cause and effect. Its a sad situation for a magnificent animal.

 

 

Fantastically written Mr Stabs.....and i totally agree .....Like ive often said,the further away you breed from the breeds original purpose the more problems will arise.

 

Although i must add,selling to anybody with the right money is no new thing,remember some of them adds in Joe Grahams old magazine

Edited January 7, 2011 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,063]

fecking loads mate ........salukies greyhounds hounds of every type............... the list is a fecking long on e............

 

 

Like i said.....not in existence,but actual dogs names kept through meticulous record keeping......very few i imagine.

[gnasher16 30,063]

I wouldn't have said that most of them where even that good!

 

My personal experience with "Irish Staffords" has been a journey littered with untrustworthy dog dealing, money grabbing scumbags, who should be ashamed of themselves.

 

The lies I heard told and then heard repeated like they were gospel was outrageous.

 

Just an observation from a Yorkshire Terrier owner

 

 

The honesty of a man can often be seen in his pedigrees.............have you ever seen a 100 % pure and true bred " irish stafford " .....i couldnt believe how many sensible and genuine folk got taken in by all that bollocks......and still do !

[BULL 96]

chiuaua ... not much use for much but they have been around for a long time then theres the sheepdog ... been around for a long time ... then theres the Lydney Dog or irish wolfhound been around since roman times ... 100 years is nothing try the husky they have been around for at least 3000 years

 

 

A 3000 year pedigree,your quite sure about that ?

 

Im not talking about how long certain breeds have existed,im talking about how many other breeds EXACT pedigree dog for dog throughout the generations can be traced back 100 years.....in my old house i had a wall in the spare room with over two thousand names on it,and that was over only 11 or 12 generations going back about 75 years.......

 

You must have a f****n big wall if you can trace a dogs pedigree back 3000 years !

you never said that you said the breed ,and is a pitbull a registered breed? or is it a strain, im not sure,as for being the purist breed of dog around as you stated thats nonsense ,

these saluki and greyhounds were around in egyption times and obviuosly were not documented then but you can trace champion lines back as long as there was records,

the settlers in america settled around 1860 to 1920 and produced the pitbull out of the pit dogs or bulldogs they took over .

Like you said a dog you own and can look at its familey tree and trace back theres nothing better ,but wouldnt it be nice to see all they way back where each individul strain had come from and what made them have the characteristics each has say the dudly nose on a mayfield it had to come from a certain type that was line bred and going further to the bull and terrier or the bulldog ive read a few books on it years ago and there incosistant with each other on american pitbulls ,its intresting all the same

[willow 53]

its real funny over the years watching a bred be ruined when i met my old mate TATTOO rip i asked him about the storys we here read the books we have read when he came over we visted some yards of ment to be honest dog men as we left he would look at me and GO [bANNED TEXT] A CROCK OF SHIT brain washed by the yanks but as we all no we learn everyday

[BULLDOUG 199]

Was it not the Nethertonian strain (from Dudley) of Stafford that had the red nose and this same very strain that went to the states and was used in most fighting dogs? Its said that all red nose PB's would go back to this famous strain.

[rikjd 8]

while many idiots own pitbulls the impact on general society isnt that great if they were legalised you would get family homes buying them without expecting to put the work in, some of these chav types do work and train their dogs well without using them for fighting but own them for the image, whatever their reason for getting the dog in the first place they at least train it and give it the exercise it needs, Not all chav types but a few. So i think legalising them would be a bad idea at this moment in time, not because of wannabe gangsters buying them but because of people getting them as protection dogs for their families iv had mates buy dobermans because they wanted it to protect their little lad and grow up with him, six months later he got rid of the dog as he couldnt train it, now if pitbulls where legal he woulda got one of them and had a big problem on his hands. Its frightening how many people fail to understand a breed before buying it, its idiots like these who make the government treat us as kids.

[Bosun11 537]

Great and interesting contributions on here, Gnasher, Duckwing etc and one of 'the' best on this forum ever, from Stabs...

 

Thanks all....

[A1an 4]

Is the studded collar compulsory?

Edited January 7, 2011 by A1an

[gnasher16 30,063]

you never said that you said the breed ,and is a pitbull a registered breed? or is it a strain, im not sure,as for being the purist breed of dog around as you stated thats nonsense ,

these saluki and greyhounds were around in egyption times and obviuosly were not documented then but you can trace champion lines back as long as there was records,

the settlers in america settled around 1860 to 1920 and produced the pitbull out of the pit dogs or bulldogs they took over .

Like you said a dog you own and can look at its familey tree and trace back theres nothing better ,but wouldnt it be nice to see all they way back where each individul strain had come from and what made them have the characteristics each has say the dudly nose on a mayfield it had to come from a certain type that was line bred and going further to the bull and terrier or the bulldog ive read a few books on it years ago and there incosistant with each other on american pitbulls ,its intresting all the same

 

Registered with who....the English Kennel Club ? possibly the most corrupt shower of c**ts in the dog world !.....give me an unregistered honest bulldog over some lump of registered showbred crap any day of the week.

What i am referring to is purity within the breed.....dogs that have been family bred for 100 years like some strains like the Colby family have bred over the generations or the Tudor/Mayfield lines.....direct,authentic,recorded lineage genetically pure over 100 years......dogs that within a litter are all perfectly kin to each other in todays times as they was 100 years ago......

Im not talking about the reading of ancient times in history books where most is guesswork and presumptions....or champions that can be roughly traced back,im talking about every single dog within a dogs pedigree and 100 year ancestry.....if you cant see where characteristics came from within that type of exact historical recordings then you wont see them anywhere,hence what im referring to as probably the purist breed alive ....ok maybe " breed " was the wrong wording i didnt realise it would be scrutinised like it has .....strains within the breed to be exact.

[gnasher16 30,063]

its real funny over the years watching a bred be ruined when i met my old mate TATTOO rip i asked him about the storys we here read the books we have read when he came over we visted some yards of ment to be honest dog men as we left he would look at me and GO [bANNED TEXT] A CROCK OF SHIT brain washed by the yanks but as we all no we learn everyday

 

 

What a waste of a good man,remember speaking with him before i even knew where Canada was.... telling me how 75% of the year was minus 20 temperatures and below and how he never lost a dog to the cold.....we thought we had it tough with the dda...dont compare to keeping a big yard like he had in them conditions.

Just dropped you a pm Mr Willow.

[lukeh 27]

 

why was ed responable for the banning of the apbt?

 

 

I wouldnt say he was responsible that would be unfair....but folk like him was the root cause of the dda....people who churn out litter after litter of dogs to sell to anybody with the correct money......oh but he put on athletic dog shows so that makes him " a good ol boy "

Fair do,s the man bred some exceptional animals.....but then the law of averages says anyone producing that amount of pups is going to produce some good ones.....

I liked old Ed he was a nice fella....but it dont make what he did right......nor the others who did the same and paved the way for the pakies and general idiots who became the next generation of peddlars.

 

 

 

theres a lot of truth in what you have said there bud .. tbh in my eyes ed proudces a lot of petbulls he bred for confirmation not gameness .. ive never saw one my self bred by him tht i could call work quality a lot had no mouth .. when ed first had his stock what he was buying in was fire pure bred what everyone working bull man wanted from europe and the states .. then he started his own stuff and they went all over the place to everyone .majority off reid blood dogs was man biters imo n thts for neally everyone man i no of a lot were man biters when put to that morris danns dogs ..

 

can jus blame ed tho its the same for em all who ive dealt with over the years.. but o well farmer boys ricky b the late tony lee tony beourke all sold the dogs for the money to anyone who wanted em and when they new they were coming back to uk the £ signs went up ..

 

id love nothing more then for the goverment to come to some sort of agreement to make this breed legal . in my oppinion they are the best dog loving companion and lb for lb dog ever created ..

[bird 9,872]

 

why was ed responable for the banning of the apbt?

 

 

I wouldnt say he was responsible that would be unfair....but folk like him was the root cause of the dda....people who churn out litter after litter of dogs to sell to anybody with the correct money......oh but he put on athletic dog shows so that makes him " a good ol boy "

Fair do,s the man bred some exceptional animals.....but then the law of averages says anyone producing that amount of pups is going to produce some good ones.....

I liked old Ed he was a nice fella....but it dont make what he did right......nor the others who did the same and paved the way for the pakies and general idiots who became the next generation of peddlars.

 

 

 

theres a lot of truth in what you have said there bud .. tbh in my eyes ed proudces a lot of petbulls he bred for confirmation not gameness .. ive never saw one my self bred by him tht i could call work quality a lot had no mouth .. when ed first had his stock what he was buying in was fire pure bred what everyone working bull man wanted from europe and the states .. then he started his own stuff and they went all over the place to everyone .majority off reid blood dogs was man biters imo n thts for neally everyone man i no of a lot were man biters when put to that morris danns dogs ..

 

can jus blame ed tho its the same for em all who ive dealt with over the years.. but o well farmer boys ricky b the late tony lee tony beourke all sold the dogs for the money to anyone who wanted em and when they new they were coming back to uk the £ signs went up ..

 

id love nothing more then for the goverment to come to some sort of agreement to make this breed legal . in my oppinion they are the best dog loving companion and lb for lb dog ever created ..

 

 

 

Had a reid bitch, and no prob with temp loved people and ok with dogs, regards the temp of the breed in general,you are spot on a great breed with good temp. The prob was i think the breed got in the wrong hands, with people who didnt know how to handle it ,if they had stayed with the people who worked them and not (joe public), the DDA might not have happened

[scalesntails 118]

I have kept cobras, mambas and various vipers in this country with a license. I could have legally bought a lion cub a few years ago. I Also have friends that keep crocs.

 

All the above is legal to keep in the UK with a license. The only only animals you can't own legally are the ones listed on the DDA.

 

I could use hyenas for hunting on my own private land but using pits would be illegal. :wallbash:

 

I personally hate most regulation as I know whats right and wrong myself without having a government of rich twats that have never lived in the real world telling me.

[Simoman 110]

The apbt was by far my favourite breed, my first after school job back in 1987 when i was 14 was walking two dogs and a bitch, not all together i must add. They were the first in my area and been imported from Ireland and i was facsinated after reading so much about them. I must admit at the time to feeling very honoured to be walking these amazing animals and went straight round after school and spent most evenings walking these dogs before going home and walking my own dog. I remember looking into getting my own pup around 1990 then all the horrific attacks were front page news and so i never got to own my own pure bull. As with any breed £££££ became the motivator for breeding and idiots were drawn to the breed. Its a shame more breeders don't have a set or principles and morals when selling pups.......