if pitbulls were legal in the uk?

[BULLDOUG 199]

Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years !

As regards the England/America thing i tend to agree with duckwing.....look at charlie lloyds pilot,an english dog taken to america....or the original colby dogs exported from ireland.......america has its own version of a staffordshire bull terrier,its a show bred version of an apbt.......no different to our strains of showbred staffordshire compared to the irish stafford......trace an american staffordshire terrier back and it will go back to original apbt,s....trace an irish stafford back and it will mainly go back to english staffords,i dont buy this whole irish stafford phenomenom....there just staffs plain and simple.........when you breed consistently for such extreme differences of show/performance over so many generations the dogs will gradually become totally different breeds.....but they will still share the same heritage.

Plenty folk will know more than me about the history of the bull breeds but thats the basics of what i think without digging too far into it all.

 

I wouldn't have said that most of them where even that good!

 

My personal experience with "Irish Staffords" has been a journey littered with untrustworthy dog dealing, money grabbing scumbags, who should be ashamed of themselves.

 

The lies I heard told and then heard repeated like they were gospel was outrageous.

 

Just an observation from a Yorkshire Terrier owner

 

Bloody good points SS, very few were awarded the holy grail of being called game dogs, but everyone today assume they all were.

[curdog 17]

 

No probs Gnasher...thank you for the apology, and i apologise for being sarcastic in my response :kiss:

 

 

....I was around the breed years and years meeting many good people dedicated to the breed,and never once heard them described as " pits ".....its only in recent years with the american influence on the street hoodlum wannabe gangster type that ive heard them called " pits " and it just makes me cringe every time i hear it......im sure others who have been around the breed awhile will know where im coming from.

Anyway no harm done

spot on, i know you no a great deal about apbt(bulldogs) , but what i find strange is that it was (staffs) that went over to the USA 1st, and they added other breeds just to have a bigger type dog. R stratton a yank who as been with apbt for 40 years says they are pure breed, but i dont by that one bit . They some good staffs from black country, game dogs and not that small like to days staff. Some were 19 in 45 -50lb ,great dogs. The temp of a staff is differnt to apbt and it will be, because a staff was in pure form when they went over. Nobody really knows what went in to apbt's, and as above even if the dog did proudce a type over 100's years. There was great differnce in temps+size, and i have had both type of dogs and was brought up with staffs +bullmastiffs. And all 3 breeds had great temps, but your bullmastiffs temp were nearly all the same temps and so were your staffs, but your apbt's to me always seem very differnt. I like apbt, there are great breed bred by man to be a working dog , and the yanks had them to loads of jobs on there ranches, and fighting was only (1) of them . And with this type of dog, if just stuck in a house 24/7 with no job to do like any working , you are asking for trouble. All my dogs were out 5 hours every day, and weekends 8 hours doing something .

 

BIRD ,

 

THAT ARGUEMENT YOU HAVE PUT FORWARD IAM AFRAID IS BULLSHITE ......

THE DOGS THAT WENT FROM HERE TO AMERICA WERE NOT STAFFS THEY WERE WORKING BULLDOGS OF VARIOUS TYPES AND SIZES AS THE OLD BREEDERS HAD NOT BRED TO A STANDARD THEY BRED FOR THE PIT !!

THEY BRED FOR THINGS UNSEEN IN A DOG FROM OUTSIDE THE SQUARE RING ..... WHERE AS THE STAFF STANDARD CALLED FOR WHAT CAN BE SEEN IN THE SHOW RING ......

WHEN YOU START THAT ...... ITS A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE .........

THE SHOW SCENE CHANGED THE STAFF FOREVER .......

I BELIVE THE AMERICANS HAVE THE TRUE OLD BRITISH BULL TERRIER ...... JUST BRED BY MEN THAT LOOKED AT PERFORMANCE FIRST .. WHERE AS STAFFS HAVE BEEN BRED TO LOOK A CERTAIN WAY .......

THERE ARE STILL REGISTERD LINES OF STAFF IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE 19 " TO THE SHOULDER AND ATHLETIC ,...... HOWEVER ALL HAVE YANK IN THEIR RECENT AND DISTANT HISTORY .......

EVEN THE LATE JOE MALLON WASNT CONCERNED ABOUT ADDING APBT INTO HIS LINES UNDER DIFFERENT DOGS REGISTERD NAMES ... DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING ??

 

ALL THE BEST

 

 

DUCKWING

Thank you Duckwing for wording what i meant better

[staffs riffraff 1,068]

Duckwing hit the nail on the head there were pit fighting dogs in this country before staffords and they are an awful lot closer to the dogs in this country 100 years ago than what we got here now n back to the point if it were legal to keep them here I think it would take SOME of the kudos n machoness from owning them and maybe we could have our proper bulldogs back

[Stabs 3]

Just my take on things....In the pre APBT days, which were obviously pre-DDA and pre-internet days, an interest in owning a bull terrier didn’t seem as prevalent and widespread as it is now. Mass communication was the tv, telephone and newspaper. It wasn’t the situation in 100% of the cases, but a lot of lads who kept sporting dogs did so for specific reasons. There was no A-frame, or weight pull or other “athletic†dog sports to legitimise the casual ownership of such dogs. Sure the pet homes kept them, but nowhere near to the extent that they do now. If a lad wanted in on this type, then he would invariably have to get off his arse and put the hard yards in, earn his apprenticeship and become accepted. I don’t see a single thing wrong with that. The people who wanted/needed the dogs, where the ones who kept the dogs and were the custodians of them, and in view they should have been mindful of where the pups went. Those willing to take a risk, or unable to get “in-the-know†could take a pup from show/pet bred parents, and plenty did this, some with good results, some not so good. Then came the dogs from overseas, and whilst they didn’t come with a guarantee, the strike rate was probably higher than that of domestic dogs which were easily available to the layman. So you soon had a situation where there was a new product on the shelves, and this product was not only more potent than the existing brand (in a lot of cases), it was also marketed nationally and available to whomever turned up with the right cash. A new exotic product, which quickly gained an aura of notoriety, and available to all. The dogs quickly moved from the (semi) exclusive preserve of the sporting men to being owned by all and sundry. There was no need for an apprenticeship anymore. When this knowledge and these dogs had to be sought, and worked for, and strived for and effort had to be expended, there were fewer. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it’s very hard to put it back in. So you had a situation whereby certain owners of these dogs didn’t realise the potential that the dogs had. Or maybe they did and that’s why they bought them anyway. Regardless, people who in my mind, had no business owning them, had them for whatever reason. And what did they do? Some bred them. Clawed back the cost of the initial outlay and then some. Were they good enough examples to be bred from? How would the majority know that? They wouldn’t have been tested to see. So the genie grows and grows and grows, until one day, someone says enough. Enter the DDA. I know a lot of people who thought that the DDA was a good thing, because it meant that once again, if you wanted one of these dogs, you had to put the hard yards in, had to serve your time and be accepted. Not all of the time, as most of us will realise, but enough to make it harder for the layman. You had to be aware of the risks involved in owning these dogs and what that meant not only to your dog, but also to you. The product disappeared from the shelves. That didn’t last long though, and once again, some decided to sell to whomever had the money, and the merry go round started again. Like all things that become desirable, moody versions start appearing, so just like the La Costa ski jacket I bought from Chatham market in 1984, people bought facsimiles of the real thing. That notoriety of owning a “banned breed†was available and with markedly less risk. I even had the pleasure of seeing two asian gentlemen walking a “Tosa†into a hall in Manchester once. It looked like someone had crossed Scooby-f*****g-Doo with Red Rum. We now live with the internet, and more and more people are talking to each other. Notoriety can be instant and apprenticeships are no longer needed. Maybe they are for the working side of things, but ownership becomes substantially easier. Have the dogs become better? Some might have, but on the whole, they become diluted as each generation passes without testing them. And who keeps the better ones? Probably the same lads who had them before the genie was out of the bottle, or at least earned their stripes with those blokes. In the public’s eye the moody facsimiles become the real thing, and perception becomes reality and they are either vilified, heaping more unwarranted scorn on the original, or they are coveted and more are bred. More often than not, both situations happen in tandem – cause and effect. It’s a sad situation for a magnificent animal.

[Guest bullterrier]

very well put stabs . ..john

[Guest stewie]

very well put stabs . ..john

ill second that stabs

[bird 9,872]

 

No probs Gnasher...thank you for the apology, and i apologise for being sarcastic in my response :kiss:

 

 

....I was around the breed years and years meeting many good people dedicated to the breed,and never once heard them described as " pits ".....its only in recent years with the american influence on the street hoodlum wannabe gangster type that ive heard them called " pits " and it just makes me cringe every time i hear it......im sure others who have been around the breed awhile will know where im coming from.

Anyway no harm done

spot on, i know you no a great deal about apbt(bulldogs) , but what i find strange is that it was (staffs) that went over to the USA 1st, and they added other breeds just to have a bigger type dog. R stratton a yank who as been with apbt for 40 years says they are pure breed, but i dont by that one bit . They some good staffs from black country, game dogs and not that small like to days staff. Some were 19 in 45 -50lb ,great dogs. The temp of a staff is differnt to apbt and it will be, because a staff was in pure form when they went over. Nobody really knows what went in to apbt's, and as above even if the dog did proudce a type over 100's years. There was great differnce in temps+size, and i have had both type of dogs and was brought up with staffs +bullmastiffs. And all 3 breeds had great temps, but your bullmastiffs temp were nearly all the same temps and so were your staffs, but your apbt's to me always seem very differnt. I like apbt, there are great breed bred by man to be a working dog , and the yanks had them to loads of jobs on there ranches, and fighting was only (1) of them . And with this type of dog, if just stuck in a house 24/7 with no job to do like any working , you are asking for trouble. All my dogs were out 5 hours every day, and weekends 8 hours doing something .

 

BIRD ,

 

THAT ARGUEMENT YOU HAVE PUT FORWARD IAM AFRAID IS BULLSHITE ......

THE DOGS THAT WENT FROM HERE TO AMERICA WERE NOT STAFFS THEY WERE WORKING BULLDOGS OF VARIOUS TYPES AND SIZES AS THE OLD BREEDERS HAD NOT BRED TO A STANDARD THEY BRED FOR THE PIT !!

THEY BRED FOR THINGS UNSEEN IN A DOG FROM OUTSIDE THE SQUARE RING ..... WHERE AS THE STAFF STANDARD CALLED FOR WHAT CAN BE SEEN IN THE SHOW RING ......

WHEN YOU START THAT ...... ITS A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE .........

THE SHOW SCENE CHANGED THE STAFF FOREVER .......

I BELIVE THE AMERICANS HAVE THE TRUE OLD BRITISH BULL TERRIER ...... JUST BRED BY MEN THAT LOOKED AT PERFORMANCE FIRST .. WHERE AS STAFFS HAVE BEEN BRED TO LOOK A CERTAIN WAY .......

THERE ARE STILL REGISTERD LINES OF STAFF IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE 19 " TO THE SHOULDER AND ATHLETIC ,...... HOWEVER ALL HAVE YANK IN THEIR RECENT AND DISTANT HISTORY .......

EVEN THE LATE JOE MALLON WASNT CONCERNED ABOUT ADDING APBT INTO HIS LINES UNDER DIFFERENT DOGS REGISTERD NAMES ... DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING ??

 

ALL THE BEST

 

 

DUCKWING

 

 

good answer , maybe r .stratton was right then

[slogger 13]

banned or not il still keep them always have always will brilliant dogs in the right hands

 

Is the right answer ...I know a lot of people who have this type of dog and always will regardless of who says they can or cant

 

 

Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years !

fecking loads mate ........salukies greyhounds hounds of every type............... the list is a fecking long on e............

chiuaua ... not much use for much but they have been around for a long time then theres the sheepdog ... been around for a long time ... then theres the Lydney Dog or irish wolfhound been around since roman times ... 100 years is nothing try the husky they have been around for at least 3000 years Edited January 7, 2011 by slogger

[staffs riffraff 1,068]

Good answer stabs

[BULLDOUG 199]

Good answer stabs

 

Good read Stabs,

[Kay 3,709]

if what i saw at the kennels when i went to identify my greyhound last week is a true reflexion on the uk's dog kennels generally then there's a hell of a lot of unwanted bull terrier types out there already for whatever reason

 

I counted at least 15 in the kennel block my dog was in .. the other type that stood out were border collies .. noticeably more of there two types over any other i saw that day

[Moll. 1,770]

the other type that stood out were border collies .. noticeably more of there two types over any other i saw that day

 

People watch Crufts on the tv Kay, see loads of well trained collies and presume they come 'made like that'

[Hannah4181 260]

the other type that stood out were border collies .. noticeably more of there two types over any other i saw that day

 

People watch Crufts on the tv Kay, see loads of well trained collies and presume they come 'made like that'

 

 

They have also been massively over bred within the agility/flyball circles . . . . bred to increase drive, in reality the result being dogs that lack the working collies traditional trait of forward and independant thinking . . . . they do however seem to have bag loads of neurotic energy.

[gnasher16 30,063]

chiuaua ... not much use for much but they have been around for a long time then theres the sheepdog ... been around for a long time ... then theres the Lydney Dog or irish wolfhound been around since roman times ... 100 years is nothing try the husky they have been around for at least 3000 years

 

 

A 3000 year pedigree,your quite sure about that ?

 

Im not talking about how long certain breeds have existed,im talking about how many other breeds EXACT pedigree dog for dog throughout the generations can be traced back 100 years.....in my old house i had a wall in the spare room with over two thousand names on it,and that was over only 11 or 12 generations going back about 75 years.......

 

You must have a f****n big wall if you can trace a dogs pedigree back 3000 years !

[Moll. 1,770]

Good point Hannah, and one i had never really thought of