byron 1,169 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I would hate to see pit's legal again, not because of the dog type as bull breeds are my fav breed, but because of what would happen to them, and what might happen because of them. The thing is, people are not the same as they were when Pit's were legal in this country. Dogs were not as common as pets, and the ones who did have them seemed to 'understand' dogs, not like the thousands of people now, who see them as babies/fashion accessories. Plus chav types were not existent back then, you set your lip up and you got a good hiding from family, and even anyone who knew your parents. People had respect. Legalising them again would be the worst thing to happen to the breed imo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psm 43 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 do you think that would be the end for staffs,ebts and american bulldogs? from over 20 years ago mine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
curdog 17 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 No probs Gnasher...thank you for the apology, and i apologise for being sarcastic in my response :kiss: ....I was around the breed years and years meeting many good people dedicated to the breed,and never once heard them described as " pits ".....its only in recent years with the american influence on the street hoodlum wannabe gangster type that ive heard them called " pits " and it just makes me cringe every time i hear it......im sure others who have been around the breed awhile will know where im coming from. Anyway no harm done spot on, i know you no a great deal about apbt(bulldogs) , but what i find strange is that it was (staffs) that went over to the USA 1st, and they added other breeds just to have a bigger type dog. R stratton a yank who as been with apbt for 40 years says they are pure breed, but i dont by that one bit . They some good staffs from black country, game dogs and not that small like to days staff. Some were 19 in 45 -50lb ,great dogs. The temp of a staff is differnt to apbt and it will be, because a staff was in pure form when they went over. Nobody really knows what went in to apbt's, and as above even if the dog did proudce a type over 100's years. There was great differnce in temps+size, and i have had both type of dogs and was brought up with staffs +bullmastiffs. And all 3 breeds had great temps. Personally i don't agree with what your saying..i believe there always was bulldogs..i don't believe they were ever crossed with terrier breeds as they say because infairness why would you want a terrier cross for the pit etc.. i do believe the ebt was developed from bulldogs crossed with terriers... i believe there was bull dogs in ireland before the orignating name of the staffordshire bull terrier in the uk..i think the bull dogs that went to the usa were the same as the working pitbulls now adays or the orignal (irish staffs)..just that the americans perfected the bulldog through selective breeding Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULL 96 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 i remember reading along time ago in an old apbt book that theres only one gene different in there make up and it stated that the staffs were mixed with a certain type of hound which is now extinct how true this is i dont know. The other crazy thing is all the younguns thinking if it looks like a staff but bigger its a pitbull..in that case theres more pitbulls in plymouth now than there was in the 1990s theres litterally hundreds of big PETBULLS i think is the correct term a bastardised PETBULL TERRIER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
curdog 17 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 The other crazy thing is all the younguns thinking if it looks like a staff but bigger its a pitbull.. That could be a good thing too though for the proper bulldog owners Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest stewie Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 do you think that would be the end for staffs,ebts and american bulldogs? from over 20 years ago mine that black dogs a specimen mate, spot on :thumbs: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DUCKWING 302 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 No probs Gnasher...thank you for the apology, and i apologise for being sarcastic in my response :kiss: ....I was around the breed years and years meeting many good people dedicated to the breed,and never once heard them described as " pits ".....its only in recent years with the american influence on the street hoodlum wannabe gangster type that ive heard them called " pits " and it just makes me cringe every time i hear it......im sure others who have been around the breed awhile will know where im coming from. Anyway no harm done spot on, i know you no a great deal about apbt(bulldogs) , but what i find strange is that it was (staffs) that went over to the USA 1st, and they added other breeds just to have a bigger type dog. R stratton a yank who as been with apbt for 40 years says they are pure breed, but i dont by that one bit . They some good staffs from black country, game dogs and not that small like to days staff. Some were 19 in 45 -50lb ,great dogs. The temp of a staff is differnt to apbt and it will be, because a staff was in pure form when they went over. Nobody really knows what went in to apbt's, and as above even if the dog did proudce a type over 100's years. There was great differnce in temps+size, and i have had both type of dogs and was brought up with staffs +bullmastiffs. And all 3 breeds had great temps, but your bullmastiffs temp were nearly all the same temps and so were your staffs, but your apbt's to me always seem very differnt. I like apbt, there are great breed bred by man to be a working dog , and the yanks had them to loads of jobs on there ranches, and fighting was only (1) of them . And with this type of dog, if just stuck in a house 24/7 with no job to do like any working , you are asking for trouble. All my dogs were out 5 hours every day, and weekends 8 hours doing something . BIRD , THAT ARGUEMENT YOU HAVE PUT FORWARD IAM AFRAID IS BULLSHITE ...... THE DOGS THAT WENT FROM HERE TO AMERICA WERE NOT STAFFS THEY WERE WORKING BULLDOGS OF VARIOUS TYPES AND SIZES AS THE OLD BREEDERS HAD NOT BRED TO A STANDARD THEY BRED FOR THE PIT !! THEY BRED FOR THINGS UNSEEN IN A DOG FROM OUTSIDE THE SQUARE RING ..... WHERE AS THE STAFF STANDARD CALLED FOR WHAT CAN BE SEEN IN THE SHOW RING ...... WHEN YOU START THAT ...... ITS A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE ......... THE SHOW SCENE CHANGED THE STAFF FOREVER ....... I BELIVE THE AMERICANS HAVE THE TRUE OLD BRITISH BULL TERRIER ...... JUST BRED BY MEN THAT LOOKED AT PERFORMANCE FIRST .. WHERE AS STAFFS HAVE BEEN BRED TO LOOK A CERTAIN WAY ....... THERE ARE STILL REGISTERD LINES OF STAFF IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE 19 " TO THE SHOULDER AND ATHLETIC ,...... HOWEVER ALL HAVE YANK IN THEIR RECENT AND DISTANT HISTORY ....... EVEN THE LATE JOE MALLON WASNT CONCERNED ABOUT ADDING APBT INTO HIS LINES UNDER DIFFERENT DOGS REGISTERD NAMES ... DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING ?? ALL THE BEST DUCKWING Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,063 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years ! As regards the England/America thing i tend to agree with duckwing.....look at charlie lloyds pilot,an english dog taken to america....or the original colby dogs exported from ireland.......america has its own version of a staffordshire bull terrier,its a show bred version of an apbt.......no different to our strains of showbred staffordshire compared to the irish stafford......trace an american staffordshire terrier back and it will go back to original apbt,s....trace an irish stafford back and it will mainly go back to english staffords,i dont buy this whole irish stafford phenomenom....there just staffs plain and simple.........when you breed consistently for such extreme differences of show/performance over so many generations the dogs will gradually become totally different breeds.....but they will still share the same heritage. Plenty folk will know more than me about the history of the bull breeds but thats the basics of what i think without digging too far into it all. Edited January 6, 2011 by gnasher16 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reavo2k9 20 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 These plassies. Make me laugh apbt my arse its all paki bredd sharpei shit , like [bANNED TEXT] said its not the true lines anyways its like heinz 57 , they would be cashing in on the money if legal again ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 IMO THE RUIN OF THE PITBULL IN THIS COUNTRY WERE THE PEOPLE WHO ABUSED THE BREEDS LOYALTY AND WILLINGNESS TO PLEASE ITS OWNER. THE STAFFORD WITHOUT DOUBT IS A CLOSE COUSIN TO THE APBT AND IF BRED FOR PERFORMANCE STILL MAKE A NUMBER ONE DOG OF OUR ERA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theferreter 311 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 banned or not il still keep them always have always will brilliant dogs in the right hands Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fellman 116 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years ! fecking loads mate ........salukies greyhounds hounds of every type............... the list is a fecking long on e............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years ! fecking loads mate ........salukies greyhounds hounds of every type............... the list is a fecking long on e............ In fact i think 100 years in dog terms is quite recent isnt it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stabs 3 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Some good posts there Gnasher and Duckwing Different regions had different types of fighting dogs before the "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" came along, and even in the Black Country, there were at least three different types of "Staffordshire", although one type came to be used for the breed standard. Where did all of the other fighting dogs go? Maybe some became extinct, maybe some were absorbed into a homogenised Staffordshire Bull Terrier. One thing's for certain, distinct types such as the Cheshire, Dudley, Red Smut and Blue Paul/Poll have long gone (especially now that Plummer is dead ). You have to remember that the dogs that went across the water to Eire and USA, mostly went way, way before the Staffordshire was even thought of....back when they had no name other than bulldog/bull terrier/half and half/bull and terrier/pit dog etc etc and were judged by performance alone. So that being the case, Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers share a common ancestor, that being (as Duckwing said), the old fighting bull terrier of the British Isles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strong Stuff 2,171 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Im no historian and not much of a book reader either.....but for me the Apbt is possibly the purest breed of dog in existence,what other dog in todays times ancestry can be reliably traced back over 100 years ! As regards the England/America thing i tend to agree with duckwing.....look at charlie lloyds pilot,an english dog taken to america....or the original colby dogs exported from ireland.......america has its own version of a staffordshire bull terrier,its a show bred version of an apbt.......no different to our strains of showbred staffordshire compared to the irish stafford......trace an american staffordshire terrier back and it will go back to original apbt,s....trace an irish stafford back and it will mainly go back to english staffords,i dont buy this whole irish stafford phenomenom....there just staffs plain and simple.........when you breed consistently for such extreme differences of show/performance over so many generations the dogs will gradually become totally different breeds.....but they will still share the same heritage. Plenty folk will know more than me about the history of the bull breeds but thats the basics of what i think without digging too far into it all. I wouldn't have said that most of them where even that good! My personal experience with "Irish Staffords" has been a journey littered with untrustworthy dog dealing, money grabbing scumbags, who should be ashamed of themselves. The lies I heard told and then heard repeated like they were gospel was outrageous. Just an observation from a Yorkshire Terrier owner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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